3500 suspension lift

[Bad Dawg]

It's been a while since I asked this with no answers so I'll try again. Has anyone lifted their 2001 or newer 3500? I've seen a lot of the 2500s lifted and I understand that the frontends are the same except for the spacers for the wheels. I am thinking of using a good kit made for the 2500s and only using the sized blocks in the rear to level the truck. 6 inches is more than I want to go but it seems that is about all that is available out there. Now that the Alcoa wheels are coming I am ready to work on the look of the one ton a bit more.

[hdmax(mike)]

Most lifts only raise the rear about 4" on a 6" lift kit.

The lift should work with the 3500 just fine. The 3500HD will need the lift for the older style truck though.

Good luck, And don`t forget, We will need pictures.

[CanadaKev]

Bad Dawg,
Another option is a 3" body lift.
Performance Accessories makes a body lift for for these new trucks (even the 3500's)but have not yet done the neccesary mods for the DMAX trucks.
Apparently some folks have installed the lift anyway and made their own (diesel engine related) adjustments.
Kev

[TXDMAX]

I know that they are available because there are a few running aroung the Dallas area w/ 8 or 6 inch suspension lifts w/ a dual shock set-up. The shocks are blue so it could be a custom Fabtech or Pro-Comp lift.

[ 11-01-2002: Message edited by: TXDMAX ]</p>

[Bad Dawg]

HDMAX - Why do you say I would need a lift for the older style truck?? As soon as I figure out how to attach a picture I'll do it. Has anyone ever explained how?

CanadaKev - I have thought about a body lift but with a 4000lb. cab over camper I am a bit nervous. I see that you have the 3" torsion bar leveling kit on your truck. How do you like it?

TXDMAX - Fabtech advertises that their new kit fits the 2500/3500 HDs. I called them and they said they haven't put one on a dually yet. I asked if they knew that the 3500's were only available as dually's and they said they didn't know that. :confused: I like their kits and may end up doing a custom install of theirs, but I was hopeing somebody on this forum had already done one. If you happen to see another one running around Dallas and you have a chance would you ask what they did? Thanks.

Anyone got the new Alcoa's yet? I understand that they are wider than the stock wheels but they say to use stock tire sizes on them. I would imagine we can push the size up a bit for width and height.

[CanadaKev]

Bad Dawg,
I like the 3" levelling kit. Pretty simple idea.
All they did was modify the 'pork chops'. Leveled out the truck nicely, and I like having the front end 3" higher without stiffening up the torsion bars. Now my 255/85's don't rub on my mud flaps.
If you are concerned about carrying a camper with a body lift, just bolt or weld in a few extra supports.
Kev

[slapshot44]

OK, am I the only one wondering??

My extended cab has a 3800lb cargo rating. A crew cab with winch and other accessories is going to have less rating (~3500lbs?). A 4000lb camper. I figure you to be probably 1000lbs overweight once the camper is loaded out. Now lets add a lift kit, which will reduce weight capacity even more, and raise the center of gravity of an already overloaded vehicle. Not to mention the additional frame stresses caused by pulling a substantial load on a dropped hitch (beacause of the increased frame height) while carrying the camper. I don't want to sound rude, but have you thought this one out?

[Bad Dawg]

slapshot44 - Thanks for making me go back through all the numbers to do the reality check. I double checked the weight on my camper, it comes in at 3495lbs. wet (loaded). My trailer tongue weight comes in at 1000lbs. The winch comes in at around 200lbs. My wife and I weigh 285lbs (added together smile.gif ). Ok, that comes in at about 5000lbs.

I checked the Chevrolet web site for the payload weight for my truck and it lists it at 4941lbs! (They list your extended cab at 5169lbs.) I have added one additional overload spring to each side of the stock overloads to raise the capacity by about 500lbs. I have also added the Firestone air bags for the sway---What a difference they make, wow. I got rid of the stock hitch and replaced it with a class 5 load-leveling set up. We have been using this setup for over a year and it is the best riding and driving truck I have ever owned with no problems. When I ordered this truck I had originally had a 3/4 ton ordered, but as I researched things I realized we needed the 1 ton dually. I know that by the published numbers we are close, but under my maximum by about 500lbs. Like all published limits there is more headroom than what the lawyers make them state.The camper and trailer are not too much for the truck.

As for the lift,I really don't want a big lift. I am more interested in getting the front to be more level with the rear, although a small lift would be nice. That is why I asked CanadaKev about his 3" torsion bar leveling kit.

Speaking of the torsion bar kit, CanadaKev- does the kit add much of an angle to the CV's? I was told that these kits put added stress on the CV's because of the added angle.

[CanadaKev]

Bad Dawg,
CV's????
You'll have to help me out with the abbrev... I'm jus' a dumb farmer ;)
Now if you was a talkin' bovine anatomy instead o' truck anatomy I'd be right with ya :D
But that said. I wasn't paying attention to any angle changes on any of the 'up front suspension/steering components.
Kev

[slapshot44]

Bad Dawg,
Yeah, the 3800lbs is the posted weight in the glove box, which I think includes a passenger in every seat, fuel, etc. (worst case scenario, I suppose.)

I noticed the airbags helped with sway also. I was debating putting a swaybar on the rear, but don't think it would improve on the airbags, unless a major leak were to happen. :rolleyes:
The dealer cranked up my torsion bars to lift the front about an inch when they leveled the truck out. Its still not level, but its better than before. Of course when the camper is on, it sits perfectly level. Amazing that it takes 3500lbs in the bed to level out these beasts, huh?

I love the way my truck handles the load also. You get some weird looks from people when a big truck with a huge camper in the bed and a boat hanging on the back passes them when going up a long, steep grade.

CanadaKev, CV's refers to the constant velocity joints on the front drive axles. (I think, but then again I'm just a dumb old hockey player...) That's why the dealer limited lifting the front to only an inch. They told me any higher would cause binding on the CV's.

[ 11-05-2002: Message edited by: slapshot44 ]</p>

[Bad Dawg]

Well, The truck goes into the shop Monday to have the Rancho 2500HD 4" lift put on. From what I can find out the front end on the 3/4 and 1 ton rigs are the same with the exception of the spacers for the dually wheels. We will have to figure out the rear ourselves with different u-bolts and the right sized blocks to level it with the front. We figure it will only take 2" in the rear to set it with about a 1" rake to make up for the camper when it's on.

The idea of the Hill leveling kit scared me because of the CV angle issue. I had an older S-10 once that I cranked the t-bars up on and had the CV break after a few months of driving. :eek:

Oh, we will also be getting a new A.R.E. Z series shell in about a week. Thanks to all who posted their experiances with the different shells.

So, I will post pictures when the truck is done if someone will tell me how! :confused:

[Bad Dawg]

The Rancho kit is installed. Now the truck sits like it should have from the factory. We only had to install the front part of the kit. With our set up, we were sitting 6" lower in the front than the rear, even with the T-bars cranked up. With the Rancho 4" kit it raised the front end up to be perfect with about 2" high still in the rear with only 20 pounds air pressure...which is good, to let the camper set the truck down by that amount. The T-bars are now set at factory setting...a little better ride now. We went with the Rancho 5000's in front and the new 9000's adjustables in the rear. Only complaint so far is the bright red parts to the kit. I had brain fade when we ordered the kit and didn't think to tell them to get black. Oh well, that's what paint cans are for.

Got the new Alcoas' delivered yesterday. Good looking wheels. Wish they were wider than stock though. I will be trying on different sized tires today to see what fits in the rear without the spacers. I'd like the 255-85s but I have a feeling that the 235-85s will be what fits best, depends on the brand tire. Anything would be better than those 215's. Thinking seriously about the "Mastercraft Courser MT or CT" made by Cooper. Tire ratings are interesting. The 255's are "D" rated at 3000 pounds. The 235's are "E" rated at 3042 pounds :confused: My thinking is that I need a fairly stiff side wall to keep the buldge to a minimum between the rear tires.

[CanadaKev]

Bad Dawg,
You're right. You'll need spacers for the 255/85's. I've got 'em.

Let us know about the squat on the 235's, when you get your camper on. (Might be nip-an-tuck) ;)

Get some pics up.
Just use a normal camera. Get the pics developed at a place that has a web-site. For a nominal fee they will post your pics on their site and you can access them from there.
Kev

[ 12-06-2002: Message edited by: CanadaKev ]

[ 12-06-2002: Message edited by: CanadaKev ]</p>

[Bad Dawg]

Kev,

What a day yesterday. We mounted and tried three different sets of tires at two different stores. Only used the stock wheels to try all this with for now...didn't want to mess up the Alcoa's. The 255's touched without letting the truck back down to the ground :( The 235 had clearance untill I put the camper on. I am now trying to find some spacers that will work. I have searched on here for who makes the different spacers that might work but can't find a name. Who's did you use and are they aluminum or steel? I am a little worried about using aluminum with the weight I carry. What do you think? The ones that I am thinking about right now that I can find are made by "Correctrack Inc." in Grants Pass, Oregon. But they are 2" thick....I know there are others at 1 3/4". I think our studs are about that long.

I have the air bags pumped up to 80 pounds now and it sits about right but with my trailer attached it will sag a little bit so I think 100 pounds will be about right.

[Bad Dawg]

Kev,

Just read back through your signiture. You do use Correctrack. And you say they have 1 3/4". I guess I'll give them a call.

Darrel

[CanadaKev]

Darrel, If you use the 1 3/4" spacers you'll have to grind a 1/4" off of the studs :(
If I did it again I would have gone 2".

The spacer is very heavy and very well made. For the $, they'd better be.
Also the outside wheel is now stud centered instead of hub centered.
You have to be able to live with that.
I haul some pretty heavy loads(26K-27K), and haven't had a problem to date.
Kev

[Bad Dawg]

Kev,
I called Correctrack and talked to Rick there. He said they no longer make the 1 3/4" spacers but will be getting in the 2" ones to put the finishing touches on Monday and could ship them out later in the day. I'll call back Monday and get them coming.

Good to hear that you are happy with the quality of yours. Also good to hear how much weight you haul around with them on. Any idea how much weight is actually on them? Also, seems I remember the hub being a lot longer than the 2" of the spacer. Why do you say the wheel will no longer be hub centered?

[mackin]

Bad Dawg

Check out my PICS with 2" spacers and 235/85 installed.....I do not use them as the gap is wider then on a semi ......You will have to switch to conical seat lug as it is the safest way to run when not hub centering.....How Kev is getting away with it is amazing with no run out......

Here's the Deal Bad Dawg,,,,,,My 2" spacers (aluminum) as strong or stronger ;) then standard steel....Are up for grabs....


Question?

Your Alcoha wheels hub centering or stud??
You will need a set of conical seat nuts in 14mm available here
=&gt;http://www.jaeeagle.com/nutstrimrings.html

The outside (My) spacer studs are standard thread (American) supplied but conical seat......

My Ultra Wheels required conversion nevertheless do to the thickness of aluminum wheel brought it out off of hub centering.....

If you are interested in trying or buying my spacers drop me an E-mail.....See D/A PICS spacers......My spacers were non returnable,don't get stuck with a set,like I did.......A Duece of wasted money right now.....Two inch is minimal spacer you can run with out cutting stock studs......You might like with a wide tire like a 255 ...... But you have to watch when you get to the point they (tires) stick out past wheel well opening.......


MAC :D

[CanadaKev]

Mac,
I couldn't get a conical(acorn nut) to seat properly with these wheels. The wheels need to be counter-sunk(bevelled) to accept the taper of the conical. I didn't feel comfortable taking a drill bit to these wheels to get the taper. Scared it might weaken the wheels. :eek:

The OEM washer-style nuts seem to be holding fine torqued to 140.


Darrel,
My 255's are flush with my mud flaps, with the 1 3/4" spacers. But Mac is right, they do stick out past the dually fender a little. I like the look ;)
The hub tapers down a hair. So once you get 2" out, there is room for the outside wheel to move around a bit. So the outside wheel is no longer hub-centered and now becomes lug-centered.
Kev

p.s. I estimate I'm running 4500 lbs on the hitch when fully loaded but I haven't scaled it yet.

[ 12-06-2002: Message edited by: CanadaKev ]</p>

[mackin]

Kev


Ya I forgot about your wheels not being CUT...... Are they Alcoha???I'm just trying to panhandle them spacers......I will let BAD DAWG try them anyway......

I still haven't taken my Ultras off....Haven't driven it in the snow yet......Been down with a back problem since Monday.....Drugs have been plentiful and potent.....Recipe =&gt;Ibuprofen 600 MG x2 or 3 , then Robaxin 750 MG x1 and top it off with one 325 MG Percocet and in about 25 Min fight the heroin node......That's where I've been since Monday at 11 am......Very comfortable.......

Been fun but I haven't taken ONE step on my feet since then either Maybe tomorrow????Sucks.......But getting better ,I was able to stand up today without grimacing in pain....I owe my wife immensely for being my caretaker,she has catered to me like a KING,without protest ......Truck has been parked !!!!!! Anyone want to come stretch it's legs?? Forgetdaboutit .....!!!!!!


MAC :eek:

[ 12-06-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[CanadaKev]

Mac,

Nope, I've still got the OEM's.

Sorry to hear about the back.
I know it can be miserable. I'll put in a word for ya when I'm sayin' my prayers.

How much snow ya got out there?
My kids would give anything to see some snow.
We seldom see any out here on the coast.
Our mountains are crying for snow. Might be a pretty sorry ski season :(
I would love to get the Dmax out in some of that white stuff to see how she handles ;)

Kev

[mackin]

Kev

We got six inches of Fresh powder (still on my truck which angers me) and 3" left over from the past 6 inches of storm.....Quite frankly if I could send it all your way I would,for your kids,and a Dmax try out......Thanks for the good will, much appreciated, as I will return the same to you...

MAC smile.gif

[JEBar]

Mack ... sorry to hear you are down w/ back problems, been there done that ... would be happy to exercise your truck but a bit far, may be next year at Cornwall??? ... take care big guy ... Jim

[Bad Dawg]

Happy Monday guys,

Ya know, I haven't looked at which style lug nuts the Alcoas use yet. I've been doing all my mounting attempts with the stock wheels. I'll look when I get home tonight.

Sorry to hear about your back Mac. Been there, it slams you to your knees...worse pain I ever had!

I really don't want to go with spacers, but it seems to be my only choice. Because I'm nervious about the weight of the camper (3500 - 4000 pounds loaded) I want to make sure that the spacers I do get are the strongest I can find. The steel Correctrack spacers seem like a better idea than aluminum spacers...thanks anyway.

Now that I will be going with spacers, I could go with any sized tire that would fit if I wanted to. With the 4" Rancho lift I could fit the 285's on. We'll see when it all gets put together which works best....As you guys pointed out: I don't want to be out too far from the dually fender.

Another question Kev: how did you fit Ultras on? Was all you had to do is use the spacers to do it? I've read posts elsewhere that talks about machining the centers out and it being tight around the brake parts???

Discovered that the drivers side axel seal is leaking. I guess I had better let Chevy take care of that before I mess with any spacers. By the way, Correctrack guarantees no axel seal leaks for 100,000 miles! I like that.

An update on the Rancho lift: With the camper on I now sit 1/2" lower in the rear. We are thinking of spacing the overload springs so that they start to work a little sooner and I don't need to run so much air in the air bags. The local shop here has done this before.

[CanadaKev]

Bad Dawg,
I don't have Ultra's. I'm still using the OEM wheels.
Mac has the Ultra's.
Kev

[Bad Dawg]

Mac & Kev - So, the Alcoas are not acorn style. Here's a thought: Untill I got this 1 ton I never had a hub to worry about centering the rear wheels on. Never had any problem with my 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks and their wheels. Granted, they weren't duallies but are there other duallies out there that don't have the hub a 1 ton has?

Too bad the spacer that we have on the fronts of our rigs can't be used on the rear. Could of saved a lot of money.

[Bad Dawg]

:D
Got the spacers mounted with Cooper 285-75 ST tires. Look great and fit fine. They stick out just a little in the rear (1/2 to 1"). Had to trim the front air dam about 1/2" for a clean turn. Rear tires and wheels centered just fine. Retorqued everything after 50 miles at 140 pounds. The Alcoa's fit fine with the 285's and look great.I'll get some pictures as soon as I get some time.

Thanks everyone for your advice.

[ChaoticRacer]

Bad Dawg, Did you ever get any pics of the 285s on your dually?

[Bad Dawg]

Sorry it's been a while. I have been really busy and not taken any shots of the rig. I have never posted any pictures before and I'm not sure how to go about it. Any suggestions? :confused:

[CanadaKev]

Bad Dawg,
Take the pics with a regular camera.
Get them developed at a major chain drug store or camera store. For a nominal fee they will post them on their website, and then you, and all of us, can have access to them. From their website, you can download them and/or transfer them to any site you wish. Up here in Canada I use London Drugs, don't know where you'ld get them developed in the USofA.
Would really like to see your rig ;)

Kev

[Bad Dawg]

Weather and time permitting I'll try to get some taken within a week. I leave on another week long business trip the first week in March.

By the way, my new additions are: 1) A.R.E. cab high X series shell (Thanks everyone for inputs on the different makes) 2) WAAG "nerf" bars wheel to wheel "flaired" (curves out at the rear to match with the dually fenders).