Eight New Injectors [Archive] - TheDieselPage.com Forums

MaxACL

08-25-2003, 22:07

Several gallons of diesel got into the crankcase and jettisoned all my oil via the air breather tube in the front of the engine. Limped into a GMC dealer 20 miles South of Erie PA. Five days later (and five nights in a motel) I get eight new injectors, oil change and fuel filter. $100 deductable and thats all.

My hays off to the service manager and the mech.

They said the fuel in the engine wont hurt anything and that their web site (GMs) listed many other engines with same problem.

I've had it for the past five days and put at least 3000 miles on it and it runs like a scares snake. I leave tomorrow for another 3000.

Yall beware! :eek:

DURAMONSTER

08-25-2003, 22:19

Its happened to my brother in laws 3 times now. Thay said 1 more time and thay will put a new motor in it because of the barings been washed to many times.

hd90rider

08-25-2003, 23:42

MaxACL, Sorry to hear , lost your ph.# & e-mail. I am also in the shop. dealer found a bad pump, & is gonna replace the other 5 injectors while apart. Hope to return to Horizon on Wed. morn. Not too unhappy with the truck ,245k on it. Dealer said he was just gonna replace the other 5 ,so I wouldnt have any more probs. we hope. Bill

MaxACL

08-26-2003, 07:02

hd90rider

My email and cell follows.

I'm away from the computer for weeks at a time so I may not always answer a post timely but the cell never fails.

I'll be in the Wakarusa yard Wednesday afternoon. Look for my dark blue dually with Texas tags.

Mike
214 448-3527
miketheboo@hotmail.com smile.gif

george morrison

08-26-2003, 07:47

Just to confirm all is well with the bearings, I would highly recommend running an oil analysis on your next oil change... Better to ascertain the engine's status now rather than later..
George

hd90rider

08-26-2003, 14:13

Will try to catch up with ya, but beginning to wonder !! My truck doesnt seem to be ready, still hopeing.They called at 1/4 to 1 & said they would call back at 2:15, 4:15 now !!! :confused: :(

More Power

08-26-2003, 14:33

Unless there's a fuel supply fitting or fuel return line fitting problem or cracked injector housing, how can in injector cause a fuel/oil contamination problem? How can all eight be bad?

If the root cause of a fuel/oil contamination problem is a bad or loose fitting under a valve cover, are dealers blaming it on the injector(s).

An injector failure usually results in that injector either injecting too much or not enough. A stuck injector will cause all sorts of unmistakable symptoms. Fuel in oil is not a likely result.

MP

imported_

08-26-2003, 15:43

hd90rdder,

That's some high mileage. Have you been using an add-on fuel filter or lift pump? Does the service tech have any idea about the cause of your pump and injector failures?

dmaxalliTech

08-26-2003, 19:51

The injector can put fuel in the oil if it is leaking through the body.. would really have to leak badly past seat to put it in that way.. I have seen bodys leak. Also likely that return line seals are leaking, since its been apart befoer, they may have not replaced seals and they didnt like being reinstalled. MP covered that and is dead on.. I too wonder about the "gallons" of diesel fuel in crankcase... I do like the idea of having all of them replaced since they are going in there. Pump problems thatI have seen are ones that do not produce enough pressure.. But if the injectors are returning too much fuel..... It WONT build pressure...

The most common failure of injector failure is excess return fuel rate.. should only be 3mm in 15 seconds of cranking. The other would be out of spec balance rates. I suppose its possible to have something else contribute to out of range rates, but I have yet to see it or had an issue with it after suspected injector replaced.

tjc

08-26-2003, 21:09

What should I be asking the dealer to do to check for possible injector failure? I seem to be having
the 'occasional problems' Mackin described other than noticeable black smoke. Also at higher altitude (7k')over the week end it seemed to have a knocking noise at idle. Have fresh Cat & OEM filters. 33k miles total.

tjc

[ 08-26-2003, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: tjc ]

LanduytG

08-27-2003, 19:22

Mike stopped by my place on Sat. and if I remember right he said they told him the fuel can get into the oil if the injector is stuck open that high pressure fuel can feed back through the oil system. I think thats what he told me. I have not seen a drawing so I can't say if its possible. But when he first called me he had a crankcase full of oil. The dealer only had 2 or 3 bad injectors but they talked GM into replacing all 8. Than makes a lot of sence to me. While you are in there do it right so you won't have to go back later. If youhave a couple bad ones its only a matter of time before the others go. I had another customer last winter the same thing happened to him it filled the crankcase. So their has to be a way for the fuel it get into the oil side. On a Power Stroke it can happen because those are hydraulic fired with oil out of the sump.

Greg

Cliffee

08-28-2003, 09:57

All these posts with injector problems had me worried. I spoke to my Fleet Service manager who's been around over 20 years and so far has been very honest. He said that during the 2002 models they fazed in new improved injectors and related parts and all 2003 have them as well. If a 2002 has problems its most likely one without the new parts. Has anyone seen 03 with problems yet?
As far as oil analysis, why wait till there's a problem. I do it every 15k or so to identify a future problem before its too late! Once you have fuel pouring into the engine who really knows what damage has been done to bearing and other parts? Analysis would have identified this long before.

hoot

08-28-2003, 10:39

Weren't there a few high pressure pump seal failures early on that leaked into the crankcase?

More Power

08-28-2003, 11:02

An injector stuck open can produce a variety of symptoms, depending on the severity.

Stuck open a little will produce a balance problem - rougher running and some white smoke.

Stuck open a lot will likely blowtorch a hole in the piston. This has happened at least once that I know of in the Duramax.

I still feel it is impossible for gallons of diesel fuel to make it past the piston rings. I also still feel that most of the oil dilution cases are due to fuel supply/return line problems. The valve cover & head changes due for the 2004 engines move all the fuel return lines outside the engine. I wonder why they did this???

MP

mtomac

08-28-2003, 11:06

I thought the newer version of the injectors were phased in the during the 2001 model year.

dmaxalliTech

08-28-2003, 14:12

updated injectors were put in mid to late model year 02, which would possibly mean Jan 02 ish. This is just a thought on the timing.. I havent seen failures on late 02's or 03's or anything that has had a replacement after early 02

MattP

08-28-2003, 19:56

More Power stated that the 2004 are supposed to have the return lines rerouted outside the valve covers. Can any one tell me when for sure that GM is infact doing this. The dealers are no help what so ever.

dmaxalliTech

08-28-2003, 20:00

MP is correct, the 04 1/2 models will have the new engine configuration.. the heads, and everything above them is changed, also fuel plumbing will be changed and a host of other things.. There is lots of info on the board from previous discussions on it.. Included in the changes of course, is the external injector plumbing.

smartfix

08-28-2003, 20:18

hello all

after reading your post you can make a fleet owner not sleep well at night.. Guys i switched to Duramax because of the bugs with the 6.0 fords .. We ordered 50 more
Duramax units.. After reading the post guys.. you all have me going nuts.. Are the 2003 and early 2004
ok .. I'm spending major bucks in total.. Im short now 400 units still.. Have to put some units to sleep soon..

From steve :confused:

MattP

08-28-2003, 20:20

dmaxalliTech

08-28-2003, 20:25

smart fix... email me please :cool:

MattP

08-28-2003, 20:45

MaxACL

09-11-2003, 13:02

To All...

Sorry to have taken so long to reply but you know how Uncle Sam can be

hd90rider

09-11-2003, 18:22

HP, I have only had 2 injectors go bad. My Service Mgr. replaced the rest while it was apart to try to reduce my downtime. Pumps have seals, they wear out with time & milage. I do use an additional filter on the aux. tank, but no lift pump. This is a working truck exposed to all temperatures, & conditions. Loaded 70% of the time. I am totally pleased with it's performance. Everything breaks down sooner or later when used like this truck. I now have over 254k on it& is doing the job it was built for, not hot rodding. ;) :D smile.gif

Bigwheel

09-13-2003, 21:58

Well I brought my 2002 DMAX into the shop on 8/21/03, complaints of MPG is dropping, truck hesitates, engine making louder noise, getting louder over time, here were the results:
Scanned no codes found, checked for fuel restrictions, ran fuel pressure test, passes, RD test power is normal, no unusal noises heard, scanned data show's cylinder #7 out of balance ( 6.3 mm and spec is 4mm, at 35 MPH and 5.5 mm at 60 MPH, spoke with customer for clarification, RD test truck 33 miles (hz h&b ). No unusual noises noted, no codes, no unusual scan data, oil level acceptable, ( SOMEHOW ) injector #7 ok, ( special touch my mech..) shimmed app for app for better throttle feel.
The truck ran different for two to three days, better acceleration, take-off, but has resumed hesitating, and questionable fuel economy. Anybody want to enlighten me about a out of balance cylinder, and then it's ok?, I called dmaxallitech, it was pretty funny to see what was done and how it was considered to be warranty covered. Maybe someone can convence me that this is worth dealing with??, must be some nice good old GM pride out there to keep working the bug's out. I've lost faith, going to the bright side...... Later

Viking

09-14-2003, 17:12

MaxACL you left out my E3A!

dmaxalliTech

09-14-2003, 18:36

Chad (bigwheel) I read your post again and I remember our phone conversation... Couple things I find funny..

Scanned no codes found, checked for fuel restrictions, ran fuel pressure test, passes, RD test power is normal, no unusal noises heard, scanned data show's cylinder #7 out of balance ( 6.3 mm and spec is 4mm, at 35 MPH and 5.5 mm at 60 MPH, spoke with customer for clarification, RD test truck 33 miles (hz h&b ). No unusual noises noted, no codes, no unusual scan data, oil level acceptable, ( SOMEHOW ) injector #7 ok, ( special touch my mech..) shimmed app for app for better throttle feel.
I am curious as to how he came up with balance rates as 35mph and 60mph as they go to zero off idle. He says he shimmed app for better throttle feel, I thought you had a diesel! There is a tsb for that but thats on gassers only! How can an injector be ok when he just said that its out of spec... Hmm

Bigwheel

09-14-2003, 19:28

dmamallitech:
I really appreciated your info and help!!! Thanks, I owe you one!

Your right, somehow out-of-balance cylinder is not correct, but somehow after needing the truck for 3 days and no spare parts to speak of, injector / cylinder#7 is ok, hummmm, nice feeling ha, it's not good but ok, nice honesty!!

Update: I've driven 750 miles over 2 trips and the truck drove totally different for 4 days, better take-off, smooth shifting, but after 3 to 4 days, went right back to being sluggish, hesitates, and hard to get over 17 to 18 gallon with 11,700 miles. Stopped using fuel treatments ever since in the shop.

Well, I'm lost for words here, besides getting really pi$$ed!. This truck should produce results with out needing any upgrades, it's Pretty sad to me, after this I'm embarrased to be a GM owner. I might consider driving to Michigan and see what you can do, I'm 600 miles from you, gonna loose time from work, and going to wait to get work done, and so on, I guess one last step before it gets traded-in........... Thanks.

[ 09-14-2003, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Bigwheel ]