This won't be hard to beat, it's already done

[hoot]

The new PSD.... 325/560

What I don't like is the smaller cubes for the higher numbers. Yes the Dmax did the same, coming out with higher numbers in a smaller displacement but 6.0 is gettin awful small.

Also the new Ford trans specs and features reads exactly like our Allison.

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?article_id=12660&id=&art_ids=0&bn=1

[Colorado Kid]

Now be nice, we didn't like them comparing Bombed vs Stock when we had no available mods either.

I guess the 10% less displacement (than ours) is made up for by the Cast Iron heads. ;)

I expect that the PSD G2 will be a real good engine, but since I don't expect to need a new truck for about 15 years I don't really care. tongue.gif

It will be strange if I get passed by a F**D with a load while towing up a hill though.

[DURA-MAX3]

Well i guess we can't be upset about it because we kinda started it. When the max came out it put the others in catch up mode. It is kinda flattering that they have to come up with something new to keep up, there building a transmission almost spec for spec to the allison. I guess they know a good thing when they see it.

[hoot]

I agree and didn't put this up to start a flame war. I like the PSD-SD but not Ford. Make sense?

I expect Navistar will be building more PSD's in their first year than Dmax has built since day one. Figure that out. They already have 250,000 as the first year tranny production number.

And yes it is flattering that Ford decided to build a trans with the exact same features as GM's Allison.

[kbrowns]

It's nice to see someone other than GM playing catch-up :D I wonder how much this new diesel/tranny option will cost? Maybe now Chev/GMC dealer will be willing to deal. We'll just have to play the "wait-and-see game" about how good the New PSD. Same thing that happened to the Duramax, but I think the longevity issue is becoming a little more clear now. The diesel game just keeps getting better smile.gif

[oneton]

It will be short lived though. I forget the new numbers that are projected for the 04 Dmax but I think there higher than those posted for the PSD. We'll have them scrabbling again :D

[SoCalDMAX]

Quote from the pure-media-marketing-hype page:

"Available early next year in Ford

[More Power]

For what it's worth, here's what I think:

The new G2 PSD was designed at a time when the competition was the 5.9 Cummins and the 6.5TD. For a productin truck, it doens't take that much to beat either of these (sure both the Cummins and 6.5 can be hot-rodded, but not in a production truck).

I believe Ford/Navistar didn't know about the Isuzu designed Duramax 6600 till after they had designed (and invested in) the G2. I'm sure they gulped hard once learning the full details of the 6600.

To get more power out of a smaller displacement engine like the 6.0L G2, you simply have to run higher combustion pressures. Higher pressures are more difficult to deal with for a number of reasons: 1- More stress on the engine. 2- Harder to deal with NOx. 3- Not as much "headroom" for future competitive power increases.

Lastly, the last rumor I heard indicated the 6600 will be at 340 hp for 2004MY. The Duramax can play this game pretty well.

Just my thoughts.

MP

[mackin]

Hey we're all ready there,well us JUICE'D guys and gals.....

Makes me wonder when will the Feds step in and say WOO no more HP and TQ in that stock class of factory production......Some one has to be watching .....How far do you think it will go? Four hundred horsepower with seven hundred or so foot pounds of torque out of the factory? :eek:
You got to luve it........

MAC

[mackin]

OOPS ;)

[ 08-04-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[YZF1R]

mackin - Interesting thought. This type of thing just happened in the bike world last year. Everyone, namely Kawasaki and Susuki, had been trying to top the other for top speed bragging rights. 200mph was on it's way before long. Then several world goverments raised their eyebrows. The motorcycle industry has since mutually agreed to a max speed of 187mph, before any goverment stepped in and really took the wind out of things.
I suppose the same kind of thing could one day happen here too. These are, after all, not Z28s' or 'Vetts. They are very large, heavy vehicles and compared to a performance car not nearly as stable under extreeme acceleration. (Not that I think we are anywhere near that point yet.) In the future if it did come to a worry from someone, the computer could just limit the rate of acceleration, but still add the power when loaded.
The next problem would be at what point do you tear the hitch off of the trailer when pulling out to pass someone at 70mph and stomp on it. :D

Steve

[mackin]

Quote: The next problem would be at what point do you tear the hitch off of the trailer when pulling out to pass someone at 70mph and stomp on it

Friggen funny dude......L,L,LMFAO :D smile.gif :D

[hoot]

This all goes back to matching your power to the vehicle. This class/size vehicle is probably close to it practical power needs. Remember, you can only haul so much weight. The manufacturers are careful not to give you a whole lot more power than what's needed because if it comes like that stock, there could be real safety considerations.

There's also the masses who buy these things. They all aren't looking for the fastest truck, just one that does it's job better than the competition. More Power isn't only factor in the equation.

[mackin]

HOOT,

Correct but, what did the Cummins get introduced at in 89 was it? At 215 HP and it did the job and the sold thousands.....Now Ford will introduce theirs at 325 and then Cummins 305 and then, well we hope GM doesn't lie down again and take an extended sabbatical ..... Then we tear the hitch off of the trailer.. Still LMAO........So given the current weight configuration how far will it go? Edumacated Guesstamit?

MAC

Here is some more pics of the ford motor.
=&gt;http://www.houstonareapowerstrokes.com/gallery/les/index.html
Courtesy of =&gt;TxDieselKid on the TDR

[ 08-04-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[hoot]

Mack,

In '89 the Cummins was no way set up with enough power. What a dog it was. You would be scared to pull out in traffic with it but, it sure sounded cool and made lot's of smoke! ;)

[drthv8r]

Scared to pull out in traffic with an 89 Dodge? I hardly think so. With the 160 HP and 400 lbs. feet of torque they came with, they could and can hold their own. They had plenty of power right off the showroom floor. I'm not sure where you come up with the 89 Dodge being no ways set up with enough power.

Does it in stock form have the power of a Duramax? Of course not, but it's far from being underpowered.

[hoot]

I drove a brand new '97 Dodge Cummins when I was shopping for a diesel back then. I pulled out of the dealers lot onto a busy highway not even thinking about it. I say it again. After that move, I was afraid to pull out in front of traffic. It was a dog. And that was a '97. I can't imagine what the '89 was like. I ended up with a 6.5 TD that had a whole lot more acceleration than the Dodge.
I'm not talking towing capapbility, just acceleration.

[drthv8r]

I still own my orignal 89 Dodge 4X4 with the Cummins, and I've never had a fear of getting out into traffic with it. Even before I dialed the wick up on it...:).

I also pull a 34' fifth wheel and it pulls just fine. But like I mentioned earlier it's not a Duramax for sure.

[stillracing]

I saw some ship on TV throw out a f**d diesel p/u and use it as an anchor on an ice shelf. Correct me if I am mistaken? I guess the merchant mariners have found a good use for them.

[Kansas Kid]

I found some information above kind of amusing. People are saying that the 6.0 PSD was designed to compete with the Cummins and 6.5TD, meaning development on it was started long before the Dmax was even a rumor. Several people here have said they heard of the Dmax being in test mules back as far as 96 or 97. And this same Dmax is the most throughly tested engine in GM history.

Now if people on this site had heard of the Dmax almost 5 years ago, I can assure you that Navistar knew about it. And if they started designing this new diesel before that, well all I can say is that it has been in testing for about twice as long as the Dmax. And we all thought the Dmax was well tested before it was introduced.

btw, this same "small displacement" motor that people seem to think won't be able to handle more power already makes 620ft-lbs at 1400rpm in medium duty applications. It will also leave the 7.3 in the dust when in similar medium duty trucks, loaded or empty.

[ 08-08-2002: Message edited by: Kansas Kid ]</p>

[SoCalDMAX]

Kansas Kid,

I think you're misreading the statement about the competition. The CTD and 6.5 were the only production engines out when the G2 was on the drawing boards. Just because the Dmax was in development or testing at the time doesn't mean anyone outside of GM knew what it's final hp/torque numbers were.

Do you know much about the technology used in the G2? I'm curious about a few things.

1. What are your thoughts on the powdered metal rods? Seems like a few over at F-D.com think they're OK for stock power levels, but won't hold up well for bombing.

2. Does the G2 injection system still rely on a HP oil rail?

3. Did they change the firing order or add an accumulator or regulator to eliminate the fuel rail pressure pulse problem?

4. Someone had seen one on the test stand and stated that it looked like it was assembled with a lot of complex parts and gaskets, a possible oil leak nightmare. Do you agree?

I certainly hope it works out, runs great and lasts a good long time. At least they didn't do anything really crazy... like put aluminum heads on it! ;) :D

Regards, Steve

[More Power]

The Diesel Page first heard about the Duramax in June of 1997. At that time, it was reported to be an Isuzu designed 6.3L V-8, and there were no performance numbers or other details available - just rumors from reliable sources. The first GM performance numbers for the Duramax came to the DP through the back door in August of 1999. The Diesel Page tested the new trucks in October of 1999.

What is the time-line for the G2?

My hope ;) is that no one here generates, promotes, repeats, or makes up any BS rumors about G2 engine problems once the new engine goes into production. We know what that's like.

MP

[ 08-09-2002: Message edited by: More Power ]</p>

[mackin]

Sure do !!!!!!!! Still hear them rumors to this day........Unfortunately.......Everybody has a story about there cousins uncles once passed over brothers kids nephew's wife's brother......By the way could you pass the VIN number? tongue.gif


MAC :D

[ 08-09-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[Kansas Kid]

I probably was misreading the statement about the competition, but when the 6.0PSD and the 6.5 are mentioned in the same breath as competition I could hardly contain my laughter.

I don't really know that much about the technology in the 6.0PSD, as I am a GM guy and only recently started reading up about this new motor (because my next truck will probably be a Ford). As for the powdered rods, might be similar to the aluminum head issue with the Dmax. But I seriously doubt it will be any kind of problem. Just in case you were curious, Navistar now uses powdered metal rods in all of their diesel engines. Can't answer the questions about the injection system. The motor does appear to have a few more gasketed surfaces then the Dmax, so leaks could be a problem well down the road. But the motor itself looks much more "finished" without all the exposed fuel lines of the Dmax. Haven't seen one in the SuperDuty though, no telling what it may look like in there. LOL