Another injector failure?

[KenZ]

Well, dropped truck off at the dealership this morning. 2002 with LB7. I've noticed over several weeks that the truck started to idle a little rough with a little surge here and there, not much. Idling got rougher and very noticible when stopped. Changed my fuel filter, as it was near time to change it anyway and I had filled up at a different station than I have been for the past several months. thinking maybe I got some bad fuel. This didn't help the rough idle. Monday, I noticed my oil pressure had dropped to about 20psi at idle and didn't go as high as ususal. I checked the oil and it looked a little low, so I added a quart. No change in the pressure. I went to Autozone and had them check for any code, although I haven't had any lights come on in the truck. No codes had been set. Oil pressure kept getting lower and I checked the oil and it always appeared to be at the normal level. A little hard to see a defined level on the smooth side of the dipstick, which didn't seem normal, but it was clearly in the groves of the notched side. Next I noticed my mileage seemed to be way off, so I went and filled the truck up. Only got 12.6mpg when I had been getting 17.5-18.5 mpg. Starting to get concerned at this point.

So I drove home with the oil pressure not hardly getting to 25 psi at highway speed. went to change my oil and sure enough, out comes about 20 quarts! Super thin. Underside of truck was covered with diesel fuel So thats where all my diesel went.

Truck has been great with not one problem in 75,000 miles. After the oil change, the rough idle went away. Didn't want to take a chance on getting more diesel in the oil not knowing how long it might take, so took it to the dealer first thing this morning. Now am waiting to hear from them--probably later this afternoon.

Now I'm wondering if there is anything else that could have caused this. Was the rough idle only caused by the overfilled crankcase? and oil mixed with diesel? I saw a post by MP mentioning that a plugged filter was causing fuel leaks. but how could this cause the diesel fuel to go into the crankcase? Wouldn't you have other driving issues if it was a plugged fuel filter. My other diesel engines just lose power and cease to run if the filter is clogged. When I changed my filter, nothing seemed to change. I don't know if the diesel was already in the crankcase at this point or not.

I had plenty of power and no codes set. I would say the slight rough idle existed for a couple of weeks, then all of a sudden went to the rough idle. No smoke or other performance problems noticed.

Any thoughts? I'll keep everyone posted when I hear later today. I am concerned about the availability of the injectors. Have a hunting trip planned for early Nov. in Colorado. Anyone know if the injector availability issue has improved?

Thanks,
Ken

[chipper]

Ken,
I am curious, did you have the secondary filter on your fuel system,& if so,how many miles on your emgine.

[KenZ]

Chipper,

Everything on my truck is stock. I have been thinking about adding a secondary fuel filter if I get new injectors. A little over 75000 miles on the truck. I have changed all filters and oil on a regular basis. Has been a great truck.

[KenZ]

Just called the dealership and they said they were going to order the injectors--two weeks. Has anyone else got a recent estimate on the injector backorder time? Thats not so bad except they tell me to come and get my truck and drive it till the parts come in. What am I supposed to do change the oil every day!!?


Update-- the phone just rang. They called back and told me the GM policy----blah blah blah--no rental provided unless vehicle is in the original warranty of 36000 miles. So I say-- I'm supposed to drive the truck for 2 weeks with diesel in the Oil. Then she says I didn't say that--so what am I supposed to do!! If they say I can't drive the truck I have no vehicle. If I drive the truck then its my fault if the engine is ruined??!! It may already be ruined for all I know.

This is where I bought this truck and she makes sure to tell me this is a GM policy and not the dealership. Doesen't mean the dealership can't do something on their own.

I still have this gut feeling that the two week backorder is going to turn into 4-6 weeks.

I am starting to feel the pain of others that have gone through this.

Funny GM will spend 7 million and give away 271 cars for advertising on Oprah, but once they got you, they don't want to even do what is right.

[quadrunner500]

I'm sorry Ken...

I unloaded my 2001 Dmax with 46,000 miles last month after not a single engine problem, because I believe the injector problem is not a matter of if, but when. And I'm very bitter at GM's response to the problem. They KNOW they sold trucks with defective injectors, and rather than do the right thing which would be to recall the trucks and give everybody the good injectors they are entitled to, they send out a piece of paper extending the warranty, but not for indefinitely.

Sorry to sound that way, but I'm sore over this. Good luck with your situation.

Tom

[Louis_Young]

Ken,

I dropped my 2001 GMC 2500HD Duramax/Allison C/C 4X4 off at the dealer on Tuesday of this week. I have 117,000 miles on the truck. It needs new injectors. The dealer did not know about the extended warranty GM has on the Duramax for fuel problems. I got the same line about no rental after 36K, etc. I faxed them my letter from GM about the warranty and now I have a rental being paid for by GM. They say my truck will be repaired in about 2 weeks due to national back order on injectors. My cost $150 deductible. Send me an email at lyoung@columbia-engineering.com if you want a copy of the GM extended warranty letter to give to your dealer. Apparently, GM has done a miserble job of notifying dealers about this issue. My dealer didn't know and once he got the GM letter the song totally changed from me being responsible to 'what can we do to make this as painless as possible for you Mr. Customer'.

[1BADDMAX]

Damn! From what I'm seeing here my dealership treated me right! They gave me a loaner car no questions asked. Truck had 81,797 on it when I took it in. Kudos to Jim Cook's Chevy in Marion, NC. I now have nearly 2k on the new injectors and the technician and service people did an excellent job. I'm glad I haven't had the trouble some of you have had with dealerships.

[KenZ]

Tom,

I think I remember a previous post you made with the comment --not if but when. I have thought about that since I read it up until the failure. I believe you may be right. The sad thing is that you have to be worrying the whole time you have the truck as to when and where it may happen. I was already worried about my upcomming trip to Colorado and if the truck was going to be reliable. I'm glad it happened before the trip.

I don't believe I have really heard the whole scoop on the new injectors. Are the new injectors supposed to take care of this problem, or is it an inherent design flaw? What did they change? It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't such a major deal to replace them.

I've been thinking of unloading my truck before the 100,000 engine warranty ended, guess I wasn't fast enough.

Did you end up with another GM truck?

Louis,

The first thing I did was hand them the GM letter. They acted as if they had never seen it before. Studied it for a while and said we will give you a call. The girl at the desk told me the mechanic read it and called the shop foreman over who read it and they were going to order the injectors according to the letter. I don't think they ever looked at or tested anything on the truck. I didn't specifically ask.

I think thats good and bad. If they hadn't seen it before, maybe its not that bad of a problem--yet. On the other hand, I now worry about their experience replacing injectors.

My truck only has a little over 75,000. I told them the original warranty is 100,000 k. I had to request the zone managers name and number. They wouldn't give me his number and said they would call him for me. Now I'm waiting to here. I have other transportation--a car, but I need my truck. Have hay to haul and as wet as its been I need the 4wd.

The dealer said GM wouldn't pay for a rental, so they couldn't give me one. I may shoot you an email to find out more about the rental. I don't understand the $150.00 ded. you mentioned. I thought it was supposed to be no charge.

Ken

[quadrunner500]

Ken, my "not if but when" remark expresses a bit cynicism and contempt because I'm angry, and a bit of heartfelt belief in it as well since it happened just that way with the dual mass flywheel in my 6-spd manual. It failed exactly when the experts here said it would.

Yes, I traded for a new truck, and no it was not a GM. It's not appropriate to trumpet or champion any non-GM brands, especially at the DieselPage, a community that provides helpful resources and support for G.M. owners.

I miss the Duramax, and in more than a few ways am less satisfied with what I traded it for. I loved my 2500HD that much. I and I must admit I was out of my league with potential diesel expenses and cost, but would not have been if the promised reliability (200,000 miles without major service) had been something I could expect. (New truck is a gasser.)

Beyond that, again my experience up to 46,000 miles had been flawless with the Duramax engine, and would have been virtually flawless with the whole truck if not for the dual mass flywheel problem, so I can't offer you any more than painful expressions of emotion and remorse.

So I should just shut up, and let the actual owner experiences play out, and not hype the fear-mongering that gripped me at the time I traded it.

[ 09-17-2004, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: quadrunner500 ]

[KenZ]

Good news and bad. The zone manager agreed to pay for a rental. They gave me a silverado extended cab, 4wd, gas engine. So they tried to match me up and I can't complain about that. Its unfortunate that you have to scream to get something. Thats not the kind of positive reinforcement we need.

The bad news is that they admitted that they had no idea when the parts were going to become available. Wouldn't even give me a guess.

Thanks for your replies, especially mentioning the rentals that you got.

Louis, if you get your truck back in two weeks, let me know. But it doesn't appear to be a good bet.

[KenZ]

I got my oil analysis back via fax sayint "CRITICAL" Which I already knew. I have a call into oil analyzers for some clarifications.

Basically the only problem was fuel dilution which they list as 10%.(and of course, viscosity) She (the girl answering the phone) said this was the highest she had ever seen. The problem is that I know the fuel was at least 50% diluted because of what I drained out of the engine. She said it may be that 10% is the max they list as she knows this is the case on other things such as soot. So I am waiting for clarification.

The other thing is that all the wear metals are actually lower than they have ever been--abnormally low in comparison to my past results. My feeling is that these wear metals have been washed out or diluted with all the diesel fuel going in the engine and then blowing out. My question was--if you take a sample and cut it with diesel 2 or 3 times, what would this do to the wear metal readings. Waiting for clarification on this as well.

If this is the case, I don't see that the oil analysis can give any indication of damage done. Maybe none was done. What do you guys think?

Thanks,

Ken

[KenZ]

I feel like I'm the only one posting on my topic!
I just hope the information may be helpful to others if they find themselves in the same situation.

Talked to Oil Analyzers and they confirmed that they just put 10% down. Said the oil/fuel mixture was bubbling and evaporating off at the temperature that they test it at so they couldn't get an accurate reading. the best they could get was 30% fuel dilution. The viscosity was well below that of transmission fluid. And yes, the wear metal readings would be off too.

Said they had never seen one that high and were surprised it didn't catch on fire.

[DmaxMaverick]

KenZ

Thumbs up for the reports, not your situation.


Said they had never seen one that high and were surprised it didn't catch on fire. That's a new twist. It could happen if the dilution was such that metal to metal contact was allowed (as in no oil between a journal and bearing).

The explanation of the wear metals being diluted sounds reasonable. I would suggest taking a sample from the drain plug after it sits overnight, and compare that with a known baseline engine, sampled under the same conditions.

Keep up the reports, you are not alone. I (we) do appreciate your updates. It's just that reading of something so potentially serious won't always spawn responses.

Thanks.

[Louis_Young]

Well I got my truck back within two weeks. Headed to South Carolina for a vacation pulling the camper and experienced 'Limp Mode' on the whole trip while towing, but no problems without the camper hooked up. Back to the dealer yesterday. Same code, one of the new injectors is leaking. Go figure. Back to the rental game until they can get another injector. The dealer is great and is trying hard to get me fixed. I'll keep you posted. As an aside, they dealer does not do anything to the truck without running it by GM via a hot line. The GM Corporate guys tell them exactly what to do and in what order to diagnose and fix the problem. GM has a master data base on these vehicles and keeps it updated as problems arise and fixes are determined. Like I have said before I still love this truck and I believe GM is going to solve the problem. This dealer has sold me my last two vehicles and I know they want to sell me an new Duramax when I am done with this one.

[KenZ]

Louis,

Sorry to hear that. The parts came in for my truck Wednesday. They were supposed to work on it today. I'm taking a trip the first week of Nov to Co. hunting and don't need any problems 2000 miles from home. As I said in another post, I hope we all get good mechanics. I would bet they didn't get the injector in exactly right.

I asked my dealer if they ran any test on my truck when I took it in. The answer was no. they just looked at the letter from GM and took my word that fuel was in the oil and ordered the parts. I asked them to take some readings before they tore the engine apart. I'll find out later if they did. I'm still concerned that it could also be the fuel pump as a few have mentioned.

Thanks for the info. Sounds like I need to take a quick tow with something when I get my truck back to give it a good test.

[Louis_Young]

Told me yesterday they were going to replace injector pump.

[KenZ]

Got my truck back late Friday. so far everything seems ok. I have noticed that every now and then I get a rough idle go through the engine, kind of like a shudder. It never did this before. I'm not real happy about how the engine looks now. It looks like its been worked on. Dirty and gobs of gasket material all around the valve covers. I'm wondering if they used parts from some other truck. My valve covers weren't that dirty and the warnings on the plastic shroud over the radiator look like they are 20 years old--you can't even read them any more. I don't know what they could have done to them. They didn't even change the oil, which I thought should really be standard procedure if you take the valve covers off. No telling what might have fallen in.


and they didn't put enough coolant back in, so I had to go spend 10.00 to buy a gallon. :(

I guess I'll look for another dealer next time. Sometimes its the little things that make a difference. They should know that truck owners are fanatics! :D If I have any additional problems, I let you guys know.

[lookin2buy]

Ken-

Sounds like a pretty shady dealer.... I mean they aren't even treating you right and "bending over backwards for you" I like to call it.

Everytime I have had work done on my '94 Chevy car, they have always included an oil change in for me.... free.

I would suggest finding another dealer next time??