I wasn't finished yet

[big dipper]

Matt....what was he cheering for...Edge?

Ask Jk what box he recommends.....I can tell you right now what the answer will be. cheering?

Ask Mdrag what filter he recommends.....I guess you already know the answer to that one. cheering?

Then you hear he is always trying to get stuff for free.....get ahold of me if you want to hear some stories about what others have tried or wanted to try. Bring up the Edge box....did he pay...said he did..I can't prove otherwise, but as others have claimed, he was to report back and test and tune.....just like others...so you tell me. I know for a fact he had his filter before any other forum was around. Did everyone else.....

Make no mistake here....this was more personal and has been for awhile. If you aren't part of the smooth road...or you go against the grain...you go. It's like being in school....you have to hang with the right crowd.

Curious if you ever got an email or a phone call to stay away from "that place"? I bet you have got a similar one in the past....maybe even today.

Beleive me, I don't care either way...I just see what goes on from the outside....I make friends and form my own opinion...I need no one to make my decisions for me. Sure I talk with Mac...do I agree with everything he says...nope....doesn't change anything. I talked to Frakes on a few occassions...seems like a good guy...some have said different....still doesn't change anything. For the record, there are plenty of posts that don't make sense, posts that rant, posts that go on forever.....so him? Just because you don't agree with a guy or don't like the way he posts stuff....you don't like him? WTF I don't like the soliciting off the site....doesn't mean I am going to leave.

Who did Mac threaten? I remember Pnut getting threatened......no banning came from that. See what I mean about what side you are on......Mdrga is as guilty for jumping on him as he for jumping on JK, although it looked to me that Ox called him out.....

[sdaver]

"what tangled webs we weave when we first start to decieve".........sounds good...Has the fat lady sung? Was it over when the germans(A JOKE FROM THE MOVIE ANIMAL HOUSE...JEEESH)bombed pearl harbor? when the going gets rough.......the oh .........tough(GUY) got(where did he go) going...whoose with with me ..........also sounded good.........but In reality Im still disapointed it happened. I would like to say for the record that I am a cheerleader for products that I think are worthwile and will continue to do so..........locked loaded and ready ................cheers dave

[ 01-13-2004, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: sdaver ]

[matt-max]

hey big dipper

please don't take me wrong. i never said i didn't like the guy...i've never met him. i said i don't know him and won't miss his posts. different things in my book.

and i don't know that i disagree with him either. honestly, much of the time i didn't have any idea what the heck he was trying to say. so i guess it's more not liking the way he posted.

yes, the cheerleading i was referring to was for edge. if i ask what product someone prefers and they tell me, i don't consider that cheerleading or pushing a product. what i do consider cheerleading is the way that he continued on and on about it, with too much enthusiasm for me to believe that he did not have a hidden agenda. maybe it was just to be popular, maybe it was a deal he made with edge....doesn't matter, it just didn't feel right.

and forgive me, the posts i had in my mind were mainly way in the past when the edge juice first became available, actually before it became available. as i stated earlier, i just learned to read around his ubiquitous posts and ignored most of it.

for the record, i do give him credit for being right about the juice, that's for sure....it's the best performance for the dollar product i have ever even heard of. i was skeptical at the time as it sounded too good to be true.

but the issue is not about edge's product, but how mac delivered his messages. for example, the way he needled the runnin' with the devil guy (james, i think) about the predator last year about this time. sure, somebody screwed up and overpromised on delivery times and performance gains and when the product followed the hype way later it did not measure up, as i recall. but mac's attacks were way out of line. it was plain to see what was going on without creating posts like 'it's 10pm do you know where your predator is?' or whatever it was.

since you asked, i have never received any phone or email messages from anyone suggesting i stay away from or visit any particular sites. i found 'the place' on my own and have visited it several times as a guest and found some good info there.

sorry, i don't know who frakes is, and i do remember somewhat the issue you mention at the end of your post but not enough to comment on it.

i am glad that you are staying on the site. i wish you, and everyone else involved, including mac, all the best. i am glad that he has a more fitting outlet for his creativity.

we all have much more in common than we have differences. we are very fortunate to have more than one forum where we can share our love of all things gm and diesel.

as i said, i am sorry to see anyone booted, especially anyone who prefers to stay and be a part of this site.

as jim said, it's a tough job to say the least and i am glad it is not mine to perform. you can't please all the people all the time.....

matt

[mdrag]

For those of you that can't access the Cheerleading Article (http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/cheer.htm) , here is the text from More Power's editorial:


TheDieselPage.com Editorial
Cheerleaders
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The thought of a cheerleader usually conjures up an image of a nubile young woman dressed in a short skirt, and waving pom-poms. While we can all use a little cheering-on from time to time, this editorial is not about this sort of cheerleader. Sorry guys.....

All of us, at one time or another, have bought or used a product that we thought was an excellent value. Discussing these products in bulletin board forums is both beneficial to other potential users, and offers some sort of reward to companies who care enough to produce good products or offer good services (i.e. value). This is "cheerleading" in its most innocuous form, as long as there is no other relationship between the forum participant and the vendor.

The second type of "cheerleading" is not so acceptable. First a definition: The unacceptable form of cheerleading is the work of someone who is not identified as a vendor or vendor spokesman, yet works bulletin board forums expecting to gain by either promoting a product or steering customers away from competing products/vendors. This "gain" could be in the form of monetary compensation, or in the form of free/discounted products from a shadow vendor. Cheerleading for gain is not an honest exchange of information, and may even mislead consumers.

How can you tell the difference between these two types of cheerleading? The beneficial cheerleader will, over time, generally offer opinions about a wide range of products, while maintaining an open mind. The "for gain" cheerleader is usually a prolific and/or a verbose poster who presents himself as just another forum participant, but most often posts in support of certain product(s) or vendor(s), and against other product(s) or vendor(s). Once you know what to look for, they are easy to spot.

TDP

Now let's examine my post history. I invite all to click on the PROFILE LINK http://forum.thedieselpage.com/ubb/profile_ubb6.gif next to the time/date in the header of my most recent post, then the VIEW RECENT POSTS link. I count fifty posts since 10/22/03, covering a wide range of topics from Easy Waxing, Batteries, Bed covers, Chroming wheels, NSBU, Lift Gates, programming the high idle using a TECH2, TTT mirrors, etc. Seven posts in the last few days are obviously fuel filter related posts , with five of those in the same thread.

I just did a careful re-read of my posts in the thread under scrutiny. In my first two posts, I was actually more intrigued by the possible plagiarism that seems to have escaped most reader's radar. I then attempted to defend a post OEM install over a pre OEM one - and did not mention a particular filter/vendor name until after being accused of being a 'scare tactic king'. IMHO, the rest of my posts in that topic were to defend against continued attempts at character assassination. Now, I don't have the time nor the desire to check all fifty of my recent posts - there may be another fuel filter discussion in there somewhere, and I'm sure someone will point it out if there is.

big dipper,

By checking your post history, I see that you have not posted for almost two months, and then mysteriously appear to so honorably defend your friend with such a manly topic: I WASN'T FINISHED YET. Sorry, but I am neither impressed with your theatrics nor very sympathetic to the 'victim' status that many have seemed to embrace in this situation.

I think TheDieselPage forum members get the idea and I don't need to go any further. GMC-2002-DMAX asked for 'cheerleading' clarification at the end of the other topic. I will be glad to repeat this exercise for the last three months of his post history if he still doesn't grasp the concept/process, or if he has more questions...

sdaver,

Think of it this way - WHAT IF HB/X tugged ONCE TOO OFTEN on your cape ;)

mdrag

[mdrag]

Sorry, I realized that I closed the topic and this would not allow further dialog, so it is reopened for now.

mdrag

[SoCalDMAX]

Here's my take on this.

As Jim has stated repeatedly, this forum is for members to exchange information. My interpretation on top of that is: the more useful info and the less noise (bickering) the better.

Subconsciously, I place a credibility factor onto what certain people post based on all of the previous posts they've made. If George Morrison starts talking 401K plans, I might run it through the sniffer, but when he talks about oil or fuel cleanliness, I'm all ears!

If Sdaver or JK post about power boxes, I listen because they've tried them all back to back and their experience speaks, and it's been virtually identical. When Mtomac talks about pulling or racing, I soak it up.

If Mdrag chooses a product, I'm confident it was the best available for his intended purpose. I think "Research" is his middle name. Then he provides fantastic feedback to us. Why? Because he's a fellow enthusiast and he wants to share. Insulting someone who is that selfless and helpful only drives him away, consciously or unconsciously. We all lose.

When someone loudly proclaims one product is the absolute best and has never tried any others, that's a cheerleader. Don't confuse that with personal experience, such as Sdaver, JK, George, Michael or Mdrag.

If people can discuss technical issues without trying to cast doubt on the motives of others, then the discussion is good. Spirited is good. Technical dissertations are good (maybe over my head). Comparisons/contrasts are good. Remember the long threads about filters, torque vs hp, etc.

But when someone just stirs the pot for entertainment purposes then the more knowledgeable people draw back and refuse to become part of a Jerry Springer episode. I've seen it on an off-road site I visit. The PWs have taken over, 75% gibberish, 20% outright shilling, 5% useful info. There was a time when the buggy builders posted about racing chassis design, suspension design, turbo vs blower, etc. But they got tired of shouting over the noise. Now it's mostly "Dude, did u see teh sick paint job on teh rail that was doin teh wheelie when it ran ovah that chick on teh quad!! Totally!!"

**************************************************

The questions I ask myself are:

1. Do I get good reliable info that I can trust here?

2. Do I provide good reliable info to others here?

3. Do I feel comfortable here?

If the answer to any of those is ever "no", then I'll re-evaluate my membership.

For the record, it's not about who is who or being on the inside. Mdrag uses a different wax than I do (did). He explained very clearly why he prefers his brand, and I want to switch because it made perfect sense.

I think the world of John Kennedy because he's honest (there are plenty of other honest vendors as well) and is really a diesel enthusiast, not a salesman. We've disagreed. I posted that I felt the Dmax would save a lot of power by converting to electric fans. He explained the reasoning behind his opinion that there would be no net gain.

He could have said, "Sure, you're right. I'll whip up a fan shroud and mount 2 electric fans in it and sell you a kit that's guaranteed to save you 50hp going down the road. It's only $600."

Would I have bought an electric fan kit? Yes. Did he talk me out of it? Yes. Does this make him greedy, or just a good honest guy? I vote honest.

Did I get booted for disagreeing with anyone? No. I did get testy and exasperated with HB, but even Mother Theresa would have been sorely tested. Disagree/discuss all you want, your opinion won't get you in trouble. It's when a person shows disrespect to other members or makes personal attacks that the fat lady sings.

************************************************** *

Nick, you misquoted me. I said "policies", as in rules, not "politics." I'm sure it was an accident. ;)

Sdaver, you're no cheerleader, you've tested a LOT of stuff and you call 'em as you see 'em. Besides, I don't even wanna think about you in a tight sweater and skirt!! :eek:

Regards, Steve

[big dipper]

Mdrag,
If you continue to check my post history, you will see that I only posted on occassion. This was not a trend that I suddenly began....been that way FOREVER.

Look at how you address Sdaver in your last post....he has been as open and non-supportive in just as much as anyone, yet you still seem to be "pals". I wonder why....could it have anything to do with "company". Don't get me wrong, I like Dave a lot...he is a great guy, but I see your response as a who is is with not what he is for.

If you go back and read my posts...I have defended JK in a few....disagreed in a few...speak up more on an occassion of disagreeing rather than support....why..to let someone see the other side. Maybe they will make their own conclusion to what the task at hand is. Been in a few that would seem rather ugly in writing, but once you get on the phone with someone..you can see they don't mean it the way it looked...how do you think I met Mac...met Mike L the same way...

Sorry that you feel the way you do...I am sure you are a good guy as well....I just don't always roll with my head stuck up my ***. I am man enough to speak my mind when I feel something is wrong. Maybe people don't agree...doesn't matter to me, I am not trying to start any war.....but ask John what he is doing. After I made a post refering to Mac and I associating off the page..he gave a rather smart comment about being Mac's Boy and made other references to other folk....why? Do you remember JK and OX go at it....seems they are buddies now. I remember him telling me he would have nothing to do with certain people and anyone who dealt with this certain individual only to find out he is offering to do the guy favors....of course he doesn't admit to that when I ask him....he only tells his side. You have an agenda as well...I am not saying your sole purpose for posting is to support John, but it is definetley in the back of your mind. I am not disputing the fact that you are thorough...you seem like a very knowledgable guy to me...you go the distance....but someone else's perception may be different.

Bottom line...maybe Mac didn't always say the right thing...maybe he didn't say it the right way...no one is perfect. Look at how John negatively posted in the thread for tailgate cables....said he didn't mean it that way....but that isn't how I took it. I would bet that if he were selling them...he would have gotten a lot of supportive comments instead of of being so negative.

I didn't just jump in and try to save him...I have disagreed with a lot that has gone on...I just felt like typing this time. You are the one trying to discredit people...look at your refernece to me about posting....I have never been caught up in anything like this and have no hidden agenda...only to speak my mind.

On edit: standing on my own 2 feet as a member of the A crowd.

[ 01-13-2004, 05:07 AM: Message edited by: big dipper ]

[sdaver]

sdaver,

Think of it this way - WHAT IF HB/X tugged ONCE TOO OFTEN on your cape

Jim croce once wrote "you don't tug on supermans cape and you don't spit into the wind" and the final words were you "don't mess around with jim"........ or slim or alan or DAVE :D

Sdaver, you're no cheerleader, you've tested a LOT of stuff and you call 'em as you see 'em. Besides, I don't even wanna think about you in a tight sweater and skirt!!

yea your right I would need some of that bikini wax you and mdrag use.........does it sting when you pull the tape

Been in a few that would seem rather ugly in writing, but once you get on the phone with someone..you can see they don't mean it the way it looked...how do you think I met Mac...met Mike L the same way...

me too dipper......things change on the phone and even more drastically in person

defend your friend with such a manly topic: I WASN'T FINISHED YET. Sorry, but I am neither impressed with your theatrics nor very sympathetic to the 'victim' status that many have seemed to embrace in this situation.

I have never heard " I WASN"T FINISHED YET" described as a manly topic.......personally I've never heard it period

sorry, i don't know who frakes is, and i do remember somewhat the issue you mention at the end of your post but not enough to comment on it .

matt, frakes is socaldmax


All of us, at one time or another, have bought or used a product that we thought was an excellent value. Discussing these products in bulletin board forums is both beneficial to other potential users, and offers some sort of reward to companies who care enough to produce good products or offer good services (i.e. value). This is "cheerleading" in its most innocuous form, as long as there is no other relationship between the forum participant and the vendor.

The second type of "cheerleading" is not so acceptable. First a definition: The unacceptable form of cheerleading is the work of someone who is not identified as a vendor or vendor spokesman, yet works bulletin board forums expecting to gain by either promoting a product or steering customers away from competing products/vendors. This "gain" could be in the form of monetary compensation, or in the form of free/discounted products from a shadow vendor. Cheerleading for gain is not an honest exchange of information, and may even mislead consumers.

How can you tell the difference between these two types of cheerleading? The beneficial cheerleader will, over time, generally offer opinions about a wide range of products, while maintaining an open mind. The "for gain" cheerleader is usually a prolific and/or a verbose poster who presents himself as just another forum participant, but most often posts in support of certain product(s) or vendor(s), and against other product(s) or vendor(s). Once you know what to look for, they are easy to spot.


so really what are these forumns for ?.................good will of mankind....maybe or for some "gain" I say its a 20%/80% split that thats just my take from my own 2 feet.........sdaver
cheerleader
page member
place member
man of steel :D

[ 01-13-2004, 06:02 AM: Message edited by: sdaver ]

[BlueOx03]

Dipper, what's the deal dude? Why are you rattling my cage? What's your beef with me? Yeah you're right, I called out Mac if that's your perception, that's your reality. I busted Mac's nuts, why as a joke. One of Mac's best qualities is the ability to not only to dish it, but also to take it.

I don't agree with everything that goes on here as well. There are plenty of guys here that I

[big dipper]

Pretty sad if your caged gets rattled just by using you as a reference.....although it will make it easy for me if the need arrives. :D

... I was simply making a point.

Things are not always as they seem in print as they would if said.....see now what I mean. Also, good things can come from bad....see again. Actually if you read back...Dave and I stuck each other a few times before we ever talked......

[ 01-13-2004, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: big dipper ]

[BlueOx03]

I wouldn't call saying that I called Mac out as a reference. That's what I was referring to. I dismissed it at first but when I saw my name on another post, I decided to inquire. I wasn

[big dipper]

Originally posted by BlueOx03:

If you knew me well, you’d know that I do see the big picture, not just a hang up as you put it.


Ox Just so no one is confused when reading this....I deleted that part before he posted...but I guess after he read it.. ;) Didn't sound right to me after I re-read so I trashed it...no other reason.

[Turbo Al]

Pearl Harbour was not bombed by the Germans geeee

[mdrag]

Originally posted by Turbo Al:
Pearl Harbour was not bombed by the Germans geeee From the movie Stripes, with Bill Murray et al..

I'll be back - when time allows.

mdrag

[ 01-13-2004, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: mdrag ]

[sdaver]

ok guys here it is for the media challenged
http://www.acmewebpages.com/midi/over.wav
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL59/718709/1218122/42749685.jpg

[ 01-13-2004, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: sdaver ]

[Turbo Al]

It MUST be true then if you saw it on the "MEDIA"

Sorry sdaver I don't watch animal house -- it just :confused: me & I was also just trying to lighten up the thread :D

Al the media challenged

[gene smith]

Dave
Can't ask for more proof than that, But wasn't Bluto dead when Stripes was made. HAR HAR HAR
That sounded like Animal House to me.
Geno

[BlueOx03]

That was from Animal House, too bad the clip cuts before he really got going though...

[glclary]

Dave you're on double secret probation......and have been for some time. (also from the movie Animal House)
Lee :D

[ 01-13-2004, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: glclary ]

[big dipper]

glclary,

I did a little checking and see that prior to the post you mad on 12/6....it had been almost 4 months since your previous post and out of the blue you post in this thread and it is not diesel related.........do you realize what a NO NO that is....consider yourself warned.. :D

Big Dipper
staff

Don't worry Mdrag...I took care of him..I doubt he will go that long without posting again. ;)

[sonofagun]

I've spent time on both sites noted in this thread. I started with TDP. I have gained a lot of knowledge from both. I want to know more about my truck from guys (and gals) who are as interested in them as I am. We I first visited the other site I found "The War Room" page. Went there, was disgusted by all the bashing I saw there, said so and haven't been back (to the War Room) since. It's a place for B.S and badmouth and, unfortunately I see the same in this thread. I don't know why Mac got booted and I'm sorry he did because I learned from him too. I don't fault others for having an opinion on it and voicing it but the barbs and nasties don't befit this (or the other) site. I don't spend no time in any other internet sites because the few I have looked at look too much like the War Room. Who needs it guys? Let's talk about our trucks.

That's my 2c.
Bob

[glclary]

Big Dip,
Sorry...All my friends know that I watch lots of TV. Surely its okay for me to be a cheerleader for the movie "Animal House". I've watched lots of other movies to compare it to. I don't sell movies. ;)

On a serious note, I enjoyed Mackin's posts. From what I've seen here in the last 2 1/2 years, it'll be our loss that he ain't here no more. But I may not have all the facts. This is More Power's playground. When you play on somebody else's playground, if you don't like the rules, you take your ball (or 10 bux) and go home. Nobody is holding us here. There are other Places.

And it the words of the prophet Forest Gump: "And that's all I got to say about that."

Regards,
Lee

[mdrag]

Originally posted by big dipper:



Mdrag,
If you continue to check my post history, you will see that I only posted on occassion. This was not a trend that I suddenly began....been that way FOREVER.

big dipper,

I did go back and look at some of your posts/ post history, and see your point. I'm sorry to have jumped to an unwarranted conclusion. I hope that you will accept my apology. You seem like a straight up person in your replies. I promise to pay more attention in the future to avoid a similar mis-step.

Your forum name did not jog my memory like some of the other, more colorful posters - likely because I do not really read most of the tranny posts with the same interest as the others. If the topic is something other than tranny fluid, Alison spin on filters, pans and the like - I glaze over....

Which brings me to answer one of your other points:


...Look at how you address Sdaver in your last post....he has been as open and non-supportive in just as much as anyone, yet you still seem to be "pals". I wonder why....could it have anything to do with "company". Don't get me wrong, I like Dave a lot...he is a great guy, but I see your response as a who is is with not what he is for.

Big dipper, again I'm sorry if that misled you to believe that sdaver is one of my 'pals'. If you've read sdaver's replies above this post, I'm sure he quickly put that notion to rest. Unlike many here, I have limited contact (my choosing, spare time limited) off TheDieselPage.com forums - a few emails here and there, and actual voice contact with a few others. The only forum participant that I've met in person was Ali-Max (Mark Stanley), and that caused quite a stir after his announcement...

My point - I remember certain forum 'characters' better than others. The big superman avatar does stand out. Yes, I agree that sdaver was 'non-supportive' and venting. My internal 'moderator alert' engaged when MP closed the post mortem topic, and you immediately started another topic with a 'defiant' sounding title...

I used the 'sdaver statement' to close my post mainly for the superman-cape tug imagery - most would immediately understand, or so I thought. Plus, others might be able to attach a hidden meaning to the actual statement and/or individuals mentioned. I was not sharp enough to create an analogy using 'big dipper' - suggesting that someone tug the big ****** wasn't going to work for obvious reasons.

sdaver,

Screw up posted by mdrag:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Turbo Al:
Pearl Harbour was not bombed by the Germans geeee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the movie Stripes, with Bill Murray et al..

I'll be back - when time allows.

MdragA big DUH!! I don't HOW I could have forgotten Animal House and THE SPEECH. Clearly the correct answer, even without the audio... I'm almost certain that a Germans/Pearl Harbor statement was made in the 'We are Dogfaces' speech give by Bill Murray in Stripes - while training for graduation.


yea your right I would need some of that bikini wax you and mdrag use.........does it sting when you pull the tape TOUCH

[sdaver]

geesh dipper Im jealous.........good post mdrag now we know you are just one of the guys........sog...just dont read it :D

[Turbo Al]

Mdrag I guess us "Moderators" are just Dumbasses (70's show) when it comes to Media trivia ;)
Al

[sdaver]

Turbo Al I think this might be the problem

http://www.destgulch.com/movies/luke/luke25.wav