Question for All You Juice Owners

[RVGuy]

OK, I couldn't stand it anymore and purchased a Juice. Installed it in under 5 minutes and WOW!! What a difference it makes. Now my question.

The dealer from whom it was purchased had versions 3.2 and 3.61c in stock. After discussing things, we decided that I would install version 3.2, try it out and if I had problems we would swap it with a 3.61c.

In reading posts on this forum I have read references to the older versions vs. the newer versions that version 3.2 may be stronger than the later versions. TRUE? FALSE?

The reason I ask is that I'm experiencing a huge black cloud during hard exceleration in level 4 and level 3. Not so much in level 2. Also, in level 4 and 3 I'm experiencing a lack of smoothness at cruise speed when not on cruise control. Feels jerky, but not too much.

I've confirmed with Aaron that these are both symptoms of this version and they are corrected in later versions. But I don't want to loose performance for asthetic reasons.

So, for those of you who have had both versions, is there a difference in performance?? Should I stay with this version or not?

[DMAXDiva]

Hi Jim:

I experienced the same symptoms that you've described with my original v3.5. Aaron unpgraded it to 3.61c, and I've had no more of those problems. It's also much easier to change levels with the upgraded version, at least on my truck (and these trucks all seem to be completely different animals!). I run around on level 4 most of the time, with T/H in 2, and there is indeed much less smoke with the new version. It sure seems to run as well as the 3.5, but then I never had the 3.2 to compare...I do recall some guys that did start out with the 3.2 complained about "depowering" with the upgrade. I'd sure be interested to hear from those who've gone from 3.2 to 3.61 myself...

[SoCalDMAX]

RVGuy,

The jerkyness you're feeling is what they're calling "fishbite". When you stomp on a diesel, it's dumping fuel into the engine and until the turbo catches up, it'll smoke. I've been getting better acceleration and very little smoke carefully rolling on the throttle.

IMHO, ver 3.61c may have a different fuel curve to it, it reduces smoke, but doesn't necessarily have less power.

Unless someone has done back to back dyno/dragstrip runs with ver. 3.2 and 3.61c and can confirm any differences in net power, I doubt there is. Part of the "wow" of the Juice is the throttle responsiveness. If the fuel is put in a little later in the throttle in ver 3.61 than 3.2, the "seat-of-the-pants-dyno" will register it as less powerful, since we're judging response vs throttle position.

The only way to tell for sure is on the dyno/drag strip. The smoke and fishbiting alone would prompt me to go for the 3.61c.

Regards, Steve

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

ASK MACKIN, ;)

HE'S HAD ALL OF 'EM SINCE THE BETA VERSION. IF ANYONE CAN TELL YA HE CAN.......ANYWAY I HAVE VERSION 3.61C, FIRST TIME "JUICER". MY TRUCK HAS HAD NONE OF THE PROBLEMS SUCH AS FISHBITE OR HEAVY SMOKE. I OFTEN SWITCH BETWEEN LEVELS IN T/H AND NORMAL. ALWAYS CHECK THE CONFIRM AND ALWAYS WHAT I WANT.

WELL I AM IMPRESSED. MY EGT'S SHOW AROUND 450-500 WHEN CRUISING AND WHEN HEAVY ON "DA JUICE" AROUND 850-1000 ( POST TURBO 1" BELOW THE MANIFOLD IN THE DOWN PIPE ) I AM FIGURING A 200 DEGREE LOWER TEMP AT THE GAUGE THAN ACTUAL.

HIGHEST BOOST TO DATE IS ABOUT 25 PSI.

GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME!!!

GMC :D

[mackin]

Ask or not I'm telling ya !!!!!!!!
Juiced since April...... 2nd only behind BOOMERHD

If it runs good in your truck and you are pleased with the GAINS in performance don't bother to upgrade ...... (J Kennedy has offered up this advice and he is 100% correct) With The Juice box it is not necessary to keep up with the JONES'S or SMITH'S......


JMO......


Beta=>WOW,what a difference from stock felt like a serious inhancement,it ran flawless for me .......Didn't think it would or could get better.... WRONG.......Smoke is good.....


3.0=> The 90 HP version ...... The Statement HOLEY $HIT was spoken continuously in my vehicle, not only by me, by whom ever was with me......Big Smiles and teen age giggles were a constant occurrence
.......Ran flawless.......Good smoke......


3.2=> Ditto on above... I up'd to it cause it was offered to me......The smokier the better....


3.5=> Wanted this for confirmation.... I didn't need it I had a good handle on what level I was in, had one long enough.....Never got it......This should have been my hint to quit....I would down grade if I could,from 3.6.....


3,californiacanthavenosmoketheywillruineverythinge ventuallyfortherestofus
=> First impresion,this sucks....... All the rest had more sack of the line, once your spoolin it will rip as good as the rest.....The BANKS has made it better, I have noticed, as any free flow pipe will.....I have yet to see over a 28PSI boost reading, seen 30 with everything else but the beta. Had no gauges then.......My wastegate is plugged I guess I should mention that, has been that way since 3.0.......

My truck was difficult to get acclimated to this version but all is fine know, it still rips like a lunatic..... Confirmation is easily heard with the Banks exhaust too, no mistaken or missing the first rev...... The "CURVE" has definitely been adjusted to meet the tree huggers request for less smoke,comes on later but catches up.....

I will stick with what I got, for now...... Note the pause, do I dare??????? I am the BB appointed guinea pig ........ tongue.gif


MAC

[ 07-31-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[motovet]

So what is the drill with this new version? Just got my 3.61 back upgraded from 3.0. No instructions in the box and Aaron is gone for the day. Do I set it like the old version or is everything different with the new confirmation?

[mackin]

motovet ,

Same setting procedure......To get confirmation, truck running in park ,go to reverse,neutral,reverse ,park......Should short rev for what level is set.......

MAC

[ 07-31-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[SoCalDMAX]

This whole level confirmation thing sounds a lot worse than it is. I realize some are having a heck of a time setting levels. Perhaps the instructions could be more specific in terms of how fast to press on the pedal, etc.

Looking at the whole package, this is by far the highest power, fastest and cleanest installing power upgrade I've done on any vehicle. It sure beats swapping a cam or headers!

I'm getting so lazy, I'm not even going to use cable ties any more, too much trouble to trim it. Just a velcro cable wrap for quick install/removal.

For those living in tree hugging CA: if you're happy with the version you have, by all means don't mess with success. I got reported as a gross polluter in my Toyota Corolla diesel, imagine how little smoke THAT puts out!

Yes, some tree huggin' bunny lover actually dialed an (800) # and reported my lic plate # while driving at least 70mph on the fwy to keep up with me. Unless he had it on speed dial, he spent a long time looking at his phone. They sent me a form I had to fill out, and near the end it had a box to check if it's a diesel. Think how many trees they killed with that stupid idea.

Moral of the story: I like as little smoke as possible, and ver 3.61c does it for me. ;)

Regards, Steve

[motovet]

Thanks Mack, one time setting and confirmed... very good. I personally could go for a unit that was level 4 in drive and level 2 in tow haul all the time caus that is all I use. But since we have to choose, the new set-up is slick. Well the fishbite is gone and the tranny adapted well after a little time on level 4. Going from the 3.0 to 3.16 there are noticeable differences... some of which I liked. First off I will agree, that teenage giggle is now somewhat subdued. The truck still rips and does get up to speed very quickly... but not as quick? It just doesn't have the same "hit" it had before. Maybe the different sensation is due to the brief drop in power during each shift which is very noticeable. I know one thing for sure, the other version banged every gear with authority...maybe that would have proven to be a bad thing? Not sure but I liked the old feel better as far as abusive acceleration goes. Well now for the good. The confirmation is amusing..though I just set it and forget it. Power is still very good and for all I know is all of what I had but just delivered in a different way. The only smoke I saw was from the tires... yes they still spin but now takes more effort. Shifting is predictable... at times the other version would put out some quirky shifts. Low speed cruising feels more comfortable like they desensitized the peddle at low speeds. In summary this new version feels smoother with noticeable power decrease during and shortly after each shift. I may be going as fast but my head rest will not be getting abused as much as it once had. I will be towing within a week to see how that goes. Maybe there will be a version 3.61cn California NOT!

[mackin]

motovet,

EXACTLY !!!!!!!!

On all points........

MAC smile.gif

[csimo]

I'm sending my unit in for update today. It makes me SICK that we are all stuck with the "tree hugger" changes to the Juice because of California (I don't consider them part of the USA anyway).

[opiekelly]

Has anyone ask Arron for Dyno numbers for the different revisions on the Juice? Not sure they would give them out, just a thought. I have 3.2c and love the throttle response. I also have the fishbite problem which I would like to get rid of, but don't want to lose the excitement.

[Kennedy]

There is a TOTALLY different program file for the CA emissions trucks. I have verified this personally, and commented in the Edge Juice/CA emissions thread.

IF I wanted to, this is something I could install and run today.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

John,

Am I to understand that the v3.61C is California Emmisions Compliant, but the CA specific programming is differn't in 3.61??? :confused:

Or is it that you just do not know what version it is. I have the v3.61C and do not have anything to compare it to. I will say the Allison has a slight hesitation between shifts as others have commented on, but nothing offensive.

I see a 1 foot gap from first to second gear when smoking the back tires :D and a lighter strip between 2-3 shift :D but still laying rubber. The truck will swing to the left from the 1-2 shift.

In all I am very happy with the performance I have, but is the tradeoff from 3.2 or 3.5 in power worth it for fishbite and confirm :confused: , DON'T KNOW.

Anyone know if the v3.61 will be getting some performance enhancements for shifting?? or is this something that has to be addressed by Allison??

Any one know????

Thanks,

GMC :D

[Texas Rancher]

RVGuy,
My answer seemingly goes against others on this Forum. I personally like 3.6 better than 3.2..
3.2 may have seemed faster because it does not de-fuel between shifts like the latest version does, but my ~times~ are quicker with the latest version compared to the 3.2..Bottom line: The 3.2 ~felt~ quicker to me because of its non-de-fuel(ing) characteristics, but the 3.6 is great! I think the 3.6 also takes better care of the tranny, too. That is something that we ALL need to be concerned with/about. Gotta like that confirmation as well! Having had them both, I would say to get it updated..

[RVGuy]

OK, I returned to my dealer yesterday. Removed the 3.2 and installed the 3.61c in its place. Implemented level 4 for normal and 2 for T/H.

My early observations are:

1.) The smoke is less BUT not eliminated.
2.) Fishbite is gone.
3.) Starting seems to be slighly better but not much better.
4.) My impression of power is that version 3.61c level 4 appears to be about the same as level 3 on the 3.2 box.
5.) I still feel some hesitation during shifts and up to now, the shifts are not as hard as 3.2 level 4.

I will continue to drive the 3.61c box a day or two longer. Like someone said before, I would love to keep the 3.2 box if we could just get rid of the fishbite.

More to follow.

[Kennedy]

There is a totally different v3.61 Cali available. This is NOT the same as 3.61c as I understand. These are the only two programming options available at this time.

As I have implied all along since Mackin started his 3.61 califrtreehug... rant, the overall performance of the 3.61 is as good or better thatn the other versions. The difference is how aggressively it applies. Since it is just as fast or faster, this would lead one to speculate that the Allison likes it better...

I may just have to dump one to 3.61 cali and try it...

FWIW, I've run combinations that are MUCH stronger that don't get me any appreciable gains in 1/4 mile times. Heck, some are even SLOWER more power...

[mackin]

RVGuy,

As a whole you think it is only as powerful as level 3? I think that it is more out of the hole and between shifts down low that something is a miss...... Mid and upper power it still is a GO GETTER......Level 1 and 2 still is or would be a 5'th wheeler's dream....Still impressed, just let me smack my own tranny ... :eek: .. Plus give me 4" of pure freight train smoke, like SOCAL at the RICERS DAY....All right Allison safety first, just like MOM says be carefull ,to much "JUICE" will rot your chompers......NAH !!!!!!!!!

MAC :D

Hey GMC shoot me an Email........I lost yours some how..... :confused:

They tar'd my street today..... Sticky as snot......I'll bet you could bust your drive train today mid 90's ,hot tar......Got to wait to kool off.then I'll mark my territory like a JUNK YARD DOG,sept I'm not gonna JUICE my mailbox post...... tongue.gif

WOOF !!!!!! WOOF !!!!!!!

[ 08-01-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Thanks JK.

I am happy with 3.61C and love my gauges, best way to keep and eye on important stuff. ;)

Mackin - you've got mail :D

GMC