Any truth to this "problem" with OEM air filters?

[Bobcat698]

On the way to Colorado, I stopped at a wayside just outside of Veil.
I met another guy with a 2001 CC Dually Duramax.
I talked to him for a bit & asked how he liked his rig & if he was chipped.
He said he didn't have a chip but was aware of them.
Then, he started telling me things I needed to do to my truck that he did to his.
He told me he switched to synthetics, etc.
But the thing that really got me was this:
He told me that I needed to put a K&N Filter in my truck ASAP, because the stock air filter on some trucks was getting "sucked into the turbo".
I told him I already had a K&N in there & he said GOOD.

He said that his GM dealer keeps K&N filters "under the counter" in case someone's air filter gets sucked into the turbo, that way they can replace the OEM with a K&N filter.

Is this guy full of BS or is there some truth to this?

Just wondering.....

GS

[KompressorMan]

The K&N will absolutely flow more; air, dirt, leaves, sticks, oil, road kill, etc. I sure don't want it in my engine.
Herb

[Bobcat698]

Did I ask for an opinion of the K&N filter??

I have used K&N on several vehicles thus far & don't plan on changing my ways because of what you guys say.

I just asked if the OEM filter story is BS or not.

[ 11-09-2002: Message edited by: Bobcat698 ]</p>

[FirstDiesel]

Nice attitude!!

If you already have the K&N and think it's great then why would you care if the guy knew what he was talking about with the stock filter anyway??

So to answer your question, never heard of it, the guys FOS and you might want to read a little more about your K&N before you mouth off to some one answering your question. I never did see him tell you to install an Amsoil, did you??

[stretch]

I personally have never seen nor heard of any airfilter getting sucked into a turbo. How can somthing that size get pulled through a hole that is about 4" round. My vote is that the story is total BS. As for a dealer stocking K&N filters, if it is true its only their for them to make money on people who believe that fairy tale.

[DMAXDiva]

Geez Bobcat...

Did someone weewee in your Wheaties this morning? tongue.gif

I CAN tell you from personal experience that the snorkel will suck in all manner of caca...my OEM was literally PACKED with fiberglas insulation that I assume was sucked in at the factory during production... :confused:

And by the way, I replaced it with a K&N... :D

[ 11-09-2002: Message edited by: DMAXDiva ]</p>

[Bobcat698]

Sorry for the hostility guys, Its just the way some of you guys rant & rave about K&N vs Amsoil, I figured after that post thats what would be next!

The way the guy was talking, the filter "came apart into little chunks"

Thanks for the info.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

K&N,

Last truck had one in it for 247,000 miles. Never sucked anything in the engine but AIR :eek: :eek:

If it does suck anything else in there is a bigger problem than the air filter.

Don't Sweat it!!!!

GMC ;)

[ 11-09-2002: Message edited by: GMC-2002-Dmax ]</p>

[huntindog]

All right, I'm asking for it.
We use K&N On our $40,000 sprint car motors. Never had a problem with the filters.
I've also used them on my personal vehicles for over 15 years, One vehicle has had the same filter for that time. I'd hate to even guess how many miles.
Never found any sticks, rocks,roadkill or anything else in the motor.
Well I take it back. there was that one time a baseball sized rock got flung off the 150 mph+ tire of the sprintcar in front of us.
Darn if it didn't go right through one of the filters!
Of course it also went right through the hood on the way to the filter.
The only problem we've ever had was in a minisprint motor, where for some reason the stock filter actually flowed better. Go figure.

All right, let the cruxification begin.

[FirstDiesel]

I think the point some people are missing is engine life. Great, your sprint car engine ran great with one. How many miles?? 100k?? 200K

That's the point. George and John have seen oil tests indicating the K&N is letting things through the filter you don't want in your engine. For those of you using the K&N and are happy with them, great, be happy. Me, I beleive someone like George who has hard test data. I want my engine to last a long time and based on his data, no K&N for me.

BTW, neither George or John have anything to gain by providing info like this. They don't own Amsoil or even a stock filter company. Hard evidence and someone with nothing to gain providing it always gets my attention.

There was an old commercial by some oil company once. The guy at the station said something like "You can pay me now or pay me later" and then he laughed. I guess in a few years and a few hundred k someone will be laughing. I'm hoping it's me.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

To All,

I had my last GMC with a gas 350cid engine in it for 12 years and 247,000 miles. I have never run sythetic oil or anything other than a stock dino oil and AC Delco air filter or a K&N air filter.

My testing was and is my experience, 12 years and 247K miles. Not to seem like I don't believe you guys with you analysis, but I can afford to trade up every year or 2 or 3 years. So I really am not concerned whether you are wrong or right.

This is my situation, others may be in a similar situation as well.

If someone wants to e-mail me the proof and prove to me that the test data is absolutely accurate with no bias than I would be willing to try another product. Until then call be a skeptical fence sitter.

again, JMHO and my .02 cents.

GMC ;)

[ 11-10-2002: Message edited by: GMC-2002-Dmax ]</p>

[GBurton]

GMC-2002-Dmax said
"I have never run sythetic oil or anything other than a stock dino oil and AC Delco air filter or a K&N air filter."

But in your signature I saw this:
"Valvoline Synthetic GL5"

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

George

[Turbo Al]

BobCat689: First I have heard of the any stock filter getting sucked in BUT I would guess when they get soaking wet from the rain it is a good possibility.
GBurton: I think the GL5 is a designation for syn gear oil.
I have run a K&N on the 1993 for 170,000 miles (same one) with no problems, the one on the DMax has been on there about 12,000 miles again no problem. The DMax air filter (stock) is no good for anything up here in the rain -- it just gets soaking bloody wet wereance the K&N doesn't (it's soaked in oil).
Turbo Al

[huntindog]

FirstDiesel, Although we don't run a lot of miles in the sprnt car, they are extremly hard miles. We are VERY concerned about all the filtration systems. You should see the oil and fuel filters. We use nothing but the best as their is a lot of $$$$ and pride on the line on race day.
There is a saying amoung racers, "In order to finish first, you must first finish".
Also did you not see the part where I mentioned the one personal vehicle that's had a K&N for over 15 years?

[csimo]

The aftermarket filters such as K&N never claim to be as efficient as the OEM filter. I think we can agree on that point.

K&N does claim to allow more air movement, and I wouldn't deny that, but I don't think it means anything on our engines. I've seen a few posts from people that have run the Dmax on the dyno with the OEM filter and then with no filter at all with no difference. That means that a K&N would make no difference at all except to allow bigger particles into your engine.

The OEM filter is a more efficient filter and does not restrict airflow on our engines.

The answer is simple... stick with OEM.

[FirstDiesel]

Not if your a member of the K&N cult. Everyone is against you by providing information that might possible show the filter isn't as good as they claim. smile.gif

Don't be confused by the facts.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

GBurton,

Factory installed synthetic in the rear Eaton Locker, so it has to be ;)

GL5 is the spec for the synthetic gear lube.

I am still waiting for the proof, if anyone has some data please share it in the thread or send me a link.

Thanks,

GMC smile.gif

[Oongawah]

My intake system SUCKS!!!

[FirstDiesel]

GMC-2002-Dmax

Why don't you try reading some of the posts from George Morrison. Here is someone that does this stuff for a living. Has no vested interest in either the K&N, Amsoil or stock filters. Has test data showing problems.

I don't understand what you K&N guys expect to see for proof. GOD striking your engine dead on the interstate??? Would that be enough??

When I see info from someone who makes their living providing support for diesel engines and has seen test data showing there is a problem, that's good enough for me.

[Turbo Al]

I have the original air filter -- it has about 3,000 miles on it & YOU ARE WELCOME TO IT, just totally disreguard the fact that it has water stains over half of the filter. I will admit it does have more surface area than the K & N but what good is that when it becomes wet?????????

[Kennedy]

Huntindog,

Some time when you have the lid off of your air cleaner, give the inner baseplate the "white glove" test...

[Burner]

Ok, here's what I'm reading. There was a fella you met that had his air filter sucked in on his "2001" Duramax. He sugested that you replace it with a K&N.

I can see where he is comming from. He has an 01' with the "old style" airbox. It was never mentioned that the 02 and 03 have the "new style" airbox, that has the side cut out. I'm guessing that his "stock" filter became wet while he was driving. As the mositure increased the filter seperated and "flaked off" into the intake. After the paper flailed away the filter probably collasped into the forward section of the intake. :rolleyes:

My friend Mitch had this happen to his truck. When he brought it to the dealer they promptly replaced the "intake" with a new 02' version.
--------------------------------------------

My .02 worth. Get this? I had a 1989 GMC Stepside with over 500k on the motor. I abused that truck! I rebuilt the rear then broke it and replaced it. I burned that one, rebuilt it and then busted that one. I replace it again. So, total I had 3 new rears and 2 rebuilds. The punishment continued on to the transmissions. I rebuilt 4 and replaced 5 transmission! I had those built to withstand abuse, to no avail. So far that's 5 rears and 9 transmissions. My engine had so many heat cycles that the horse shoe braket accutally "warped" from the heat! I replace it so that my belt would stay on! --- The motor was the heart of destruction. I would change my "oil filter" every 5k and the oil at 10 or 20k!!! I ran Mobil-1, three parts 5w-30 and 2 parts 10w-50. (Heck I really don't rember the weight, just that 3 were green and 2 were red.)
The only thing I "ever" replace internally was the dis-shaft. I did all this dammage with "one" K&N air filter and mobil-1 !!! ;) I may never use the K&N on my 5,000 dollar motor but it did very well on my 2,000 motor! I might mention that my truck would out run Beatty's 92' model and Davids 90' model that put together did not have half the miles of my truck!


Burner ;)

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

FirstDiesel,

I will be sending my oil out next change for an analysis and at that time I will replace the K&N with a NEW Stock AC Delco air filter.

After I drive for 3K miles I will get another oil analysis done and compare.

I am not discounting the analysis of Mr. Morrison, I am just wondering if K&N Filters are so bad, why do so many people swear by them
:confused: :confused:

I will have to see the results for myself, call me skeptical :rolleyes:

GMC ;)

[FirstDiesel]

GMC-2002-Dmax

While your at it read JK's post above. It's not just George that has trouble with a K&N filter and you don't always need something as technical as an oil test to prove a point.

[csimo]

The question was asked: "I am not discounting the analysis of Mr. Morrison, I am just wondering if K&N Filters are so bad, why do so many people swear by them."

I can answer that question! K&N claims their filters flow more air. They are correct. If you have an engine that does not require excellent filtration, and the OEM filter is restrictive then the K&N will be of some use.

Our Duramax engines need excellent filtration. The MAF sensor is directly in your intake tract and your engine will not run properly if it's dirty.

Our Duramax OEM filter flows more air than the engine can possibly use. This is evidenced by the dyno comparisons with the OEM filter installed and then with no filter installed. No measurable difference.

What will a K&N filter do for you? It will cost you money. It will allow more dirt by than the OEM filter.

What will the K&N filter NOT do for you? Give you more power.

[SoCalDMAX]

csimo,

That was an excellent post, I've never seen it put more succinctly. Very compelling.

Thanks! Steve

[johns]

I heard about this problem on the Ford Diesel page when I had my Powerstroke. The initial Ford design had the air filter setup in such a way that they got wet very easily. Also, there were a series of air filters that did not have a screen mesh as part of the filter. Many of these got sucked into the Turbo when they got wet.

[ChevysRus]

Well, I am waiting for the new air filter, fuel filter and oil filter from FRAM!!! LOL ha ha ha ha

Question raised was why does K&N sell so many filters if they don't work well, answer why does FRAM sell so many filters, when we all know the truth about those suckers, because most of us here have cut one open to compare!

The answer of course is "Marketing". If you paint a cute picture and drop in some testimonials then you can usually sell anything and that does not mean you have to convince 100% of the population, you just need "Market Share".

Also the comment that "I can afford to trade every 2-3 years so I don't have to run the best products" (Paraphrasing)is true and that's exactly why I never will buy something "used"!

OK Carry On, just had to add my H2O-dn-$0.02

[Bobcat698]

Ok, now that we're started on the K&N issue, which I did not make this post in the first place to ask if it was a bad filter:

I have been very happy with the K&N filter on my 03 Duramax. It DOES give a slight performance gain to the truck!
The turbo spools up faster & the turbo whine is a little more noticeable.
It did make a slight difference in acceleration while towing too.

I also have K&N Filters on all of my ATVs, plus my 91 Ford F-150, which has a FIPK, which made a BIG difference.
I will be putting one on the Mercedes diesel soon, as well.

Garrett

[Turbo Al]

Thanks for all the advice on how to save my motors from the dreaded K&N. Still got them and going to use them till the motors fall out.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

ChevysRus,

I am going by my previous experience with K&N and I am staying with what I have. I am not looking to put substandard parts in my truck and if anyone ever buys a vehicle of mine it is in excellent shape.

I am just not convinced that AMSOIL or anyone elses product is that much more superior. This may be stepping on some toes here, but I am confident that the K&N is doing it's job.

I find it hard to beleive that a plugged filter and no filter delivers the same dyno results. I guess I can't be convinced that I am hurting my engine anymore than you can convince me that extending my oil changes with synthetic is worth the extra money for it.

JMHO ;)

GMC