Low coolant-Leaking head gasket update

[Maverick]

My 3500 has 85,400 miles so far and so far this week I have added 3 quarters of a gallon of Dex-cool. I can't see any visible leaks. The fan seems to run more often than it should. The coolant tank reads low and if I crack the cap it comes up to normal. The light doesn't come on then. I have lost coolant though. Don't know if I overfilled and it blew out or what. It seems there is a vaccum on the system. The coolant will be sucked down in the tank in the morning. The light will come on. I'll shut it off, burp the tank and the level comes up about 2 inches in the tank and restart and everthing is fine.

Question...does it sound like a thermostat problem or some kind of a injector seal thing More Power was talking about? Need help on this one.

[ 08-12-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

[Maverick]

Well you can make the mileage to over 86,000.

Come on anybody. I'll take any info. Anybody ever have a coolant leak on their Dmax? Anybody know why my cooling system has a vaccum and not pressure? Why does the coolant go down in the resevoir 2-3 inches when its hot? When its cold it still stays down till I crack the cap. Need help.

[SoMnDMAX]

Jeff, I guess I'd try testing the pressure cap. Sounds like it's malfunctioning, and not allowing the system to vent as it should. Some vacuum build up is normal due to expansion and contraction within the system, and the cap should be able to vent this pressure.

While pressure testing the cap, I would also test the system to see if it will hold pressure for an extended period of time. You may have a waterpump or a hose leaking you may not be able to see. Has the engine oil level stayed consistant? Any milky crud in there?

Any dealer or reputable repair shop (if they have them in AK :confused: ) should have the proper equipment to test the system.

[Maverick]

SoMn,
Oil looks good visually and level has not gone up. I'll have them test the cap also. The dealer thinks its a thermostat problem. They are changing both of them tomorrow morn. The system holds a vaccum so I would think it would hold pressure also. You would think anyway. I'll update tomorrow. Thanks.

[ 07-30-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

[Maverick]

You can make that mileage 87,720.

The new T-stats did NOT work. Still losing coolant somewhere. Go in Monday again. I hope its not (dare I say it) a head gasket. Maybe I'll get a new engine, eh. Still runs great, just losing some coolant.

[Kennedy]

Oil analysis would be my first course of action, then adding a dye to the coolant would be next. Pumping up with a pressure tester SHOULD show where the leak is. Having water going through that goofy aluminum bellhousing kinda scares me...

Lotsa orings and such to weep!

[Maverick]

They did put dye in it when they changed the T-stats. They use a black light to sweep for leaks. 88K will be my oil change so I guess I could do it Monday also.

[More Power]

A leaky injector cup seal is a possibility, if there are no visible leaks (got to really look hard everywhere on the engine).

If an injector cup seal is leaking, it should be easier for combustion pressure to find its way into the cooling system than for coolant to make its way into a combustion chamber. So, a check for the presense of combustion gases (CO2, CO, etc.) in the cooling system would help determine this. Any well-equipped radiator shop, GM dealership or other garage should have the correct equipment.

As John mentioned, an oil analysis may show a presense of coolant in the oil, if its getting into the combustion chamber. A tiny percentage could get past the rings.

In any event, I would try to get this resolved soon. Even a small quantity of coolant in a combustion chamber during a startup could wreak havoc with the affected piston and rod due to the hydrolock effect.

MP

[BradL]

Maverick,

When I first took delivery of my truck in Nov '00 I had a "mystery" coolant leak coming off/through the aluminum casting off the back of the block that circulates coolant from one side of the engine to the other. I would see coolant dripping off the bottom of the flywheel cover.

When the technicians dropped the tranny, everything looked fine on the back of the motor and the aluminum casting, but when bolt torque was re-checked, 1 bolt out of 14 (?) needed another 1/4 turn. Since then I have had no leaks.

This was a very obvious leak - although I thought it was transmission fluid at first.

[Kennedy]

AVlube (George) has some quick/esy field testing kits available through Mobil.


Another thing to consider, (gulp) is dropping in a couple of "Cadillac tablets" to see if you can stop the leak. Not the proper solution, but an idea nonethless. If it gets to the oil, it can send wear metals through the roof!


I've been chasing weeping head studs on my '96 for some time now, and HOPEFULLY have them stopped...

[Maverick]

Well the leaks been found. A cross over hose just above the injector pump and....gulp.....the right cylinder head gasket. It is leaking on the front side facing the radiator. They pulled the fan, the shroud, and the alt. and bracket to get a better look. The die they put in on Wed gave the leak away. You can clearly see there is sepage. Why me. Truck has just over 88K on it now. They will have all the parts and pull the head and replace the gasket on Mon and Tues. I will have pics of all this when its being done. I seen the leak for myself and it there. Well there are no....my brother friends cousins uncle story here. I have been here to long for that crap. It sucks but thats the way it goes. Good thing I am not over 100K just yet. Maybe in another couple months. Please pray for my fallen hero as he put up a great fight.

[Paintdude]

Glad they found the problem..

I figured it was the Chevy and not the GMC.. smile.gif

Hope all goes well and they pay for it all..I am looking forward to the pictures..Good Luck..

[SoCalDMAX]

Sorry to hear the bad news... at least it didn't happen at 105k mi. Sounds like your dealer was diligent and resourceful in finding it.

Make sure the clock starts over with a new 100K mi warranty! It doesn't hurt to ask... ;)

Good luck, Steve

[hoot]

Maverick,

Don't worry, be happy. Could have been an improperly torqued head or a bad gasket to start with.

Or, it just plain failed. Take comfort in knowing it's not a common occurrance and when she's fixed it will be just as if it never happened.

[mackin]

Mav,

Sorry to here ...... Will they pull both sides? At least we now it's not BS,waiting to here the full details once you get it back,As to there determination to what went wrong.......

Mac

[Kennedy]

If I may interject BEFORE they start pulling it apart any further.

I think I would be inclined to repair the hose and clean, then pressure test to make sure that the dyed coolant leaking fronm the hose has not simply "channeled" to this location.

Not wanting to sound like I am second guessing the diagnosis or unwilling to admit that a head gasket could fail, but this does seem like a distinct possibility!

[Maverick]

Kennedy,
That was one of the reasons for pulling the front of the engine apart was to make sure it didn't trail to the head. There is no way it could get there(hose leak to the head). It is dry between these two points and well, I'll take pics on Mon. I am going to steam clean both areas well and run it for the weekend. The small hose almost still looks like its leaking. The leak has slowed as of yesterday though, so maybe its only leaking from the head gasket now. They did put my truck back together so I could haul freight the rest of the week. 88,400 miles. I did find out that there are 3 different head gaskets for a Duramax. They are classed as A:No hole B : one hole (My engine) and C:Two hole----There is a oval casting mark on the front of the head. Inside the oval will have no, 1, or 2 circle(holes). This determines the gasket. There are three different thicknesses. Interesting stuff. Learning more everyday.

[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

[Maverick]

You can make that mileage 89,931

Anyway, an update. Dropped the truck off at the dealer this morning. New head gasket and other parts are in. Preliminary test on comression is good at 400 for every cylinder. Did a test for emissions comming from the anti-freeze res. Shows there is combustion gases in the anti-freeze. The cooling system is being pressurized by something. The dye in the dex-cool indicated a leak on the right head(pass side). My guess is the gasket is letting combustion gases into the system, pressurizing it and causing another small hose to leak also. The gasket is also letting coolant go to the outside of the head. I do see a light gray haze from the exhaust when at an idle. Maybe dex-cool burning? The dealer had everything off the engine on that side except the head itself. They are hoping to have it done at close of business tomorrow. We'll see. I looked at my glow plugs and the are black and blistered on the ends. They are all the same length. Is it time for new ones? I took some pics but left the digital camera with the tech to take some pics. Gotta work the 2500HD again tomorrow while the 3500 takes a breather. Gotta haul 18,800 incuding the trailer. We'll see how she does. I'll probably get the head gasket pics up on Wed.

Going to bed.

[Maverick]

Well that 2500HD sure doesn't have the mountain pulling power that the 3500 has. :mad: This is comparing stock to stock. 3500 has way more power on the hills. Pulled the 18,800lbs just fine though.

Got the head gasket photos up. Sure was a small space to leak. The gaskets are made of 3 thin pieces of metal with a black coating that makes the seal. The black coating is what deteriorated and cause the leak. Hopefully it is fixed for good. Pick it up tomorrow.

Click on photo link below and go to the head gasket albumn. ;)

[konacat]

Thanks for the pictures! Very interesting.

[deerhunter7]

Maverick them are some good Pics of the head and gasket. Hope this is an isolated problem.Sorry it happened to yours but good warranty saved some money. Hope it's good for 300,000 more anyway..

[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: deerhunter7 ]</p>

[DURA-MAX3]

You said there was different head gaskets and you could tell by the desighn on the head. Just wondering if they told you why there were different one's. Just curious. Sorry about your truck...

[mackin]

Looks like you'll be on the road again........Good luck.......By the way for 89K it hardly looks used........

MAC

[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[D-max Man]

DURA-MAX3,

There are 3 different gaskets that can be used on the Duramax. 1) No holes, 2) 1-hole and 3) 2-holes.

These holes can be found on both ends of the gasket (one end they are closer together that the other end).

The difference between them is thickness. Sense the fire deck on the heads is flat and the pistons protrude above the block deck, it is very important that you measure the piston protrusion and select the correct gasket to accommodate the highest one.

Too thin of a gasket could allow the pistons to contact the valves and that isn't a pretty site.

[mackin]

D-max Man ,

Hows things going OVER on the other side? Got some inside tid bits for us? D-oge Man....... tongue.gif
Haven't seen you post in a couple months.......Unless I missed something.......Do they make you park in the back lot?
LOL

MAC smile.gif

Mav ,

Do you know which gaskets you have?

[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[D-max Man]

mackin,

I am allowed to park right up front, sense I drive my Mercedes to work at Detroit Diesel (a Daimler-Chrysler Powertrain facility).

If I decide to drive the truck, that is still allowed sense we are also a GM supplier and thus I can get a supplier discount on a new D-Max (However I would probably choose to use my Brother-in-law's employee discount). Or I could buy a new Dodge truck with my employee discount. But I think I will stick with my 1953 Dodge (Grandpa bought it new) P.U. for now. Or should I go for a new Mercedes, I get discounts on them too, I even get discounts on Ford and Honda through this place.

I try to visit now and then but besides the new job, which doesn't allow the freedom to post that my last job did, I also took on a wife in June and she seems to want my attention too. Not to mention that I am buying a new house and trying to sell the two that we currently have.

I sill have some contacts at both GM and Isuzu and I am planning to work the GMC display at the AQHA World Congress in Columbus this October (Weekends only) as the Duramax product specialist. We started the show with 98 D-Max's last year and sold them all and had to bring in more during the 3-week event. It will be interesting to get some feedback from those who bought them last year.

[Blacktruck-1]

Great pics Maverick. Hope all goes well for you. Just a couple of questions? Whats the green coolant doing in there in the picture with the "Mexican Hat" pistons. Did you change out the Dexcool at some point? Could this have had an adverse reaction on the head gasket?

Not being critical--just curious.

[Maverick]

Thanks for your support guys & gals.

Got her back. Looks the same as when I brought her in. Don't know if there were extra bolts. He said he put in about 20hrs to do the work. Warrenty pays 18hrs he said. Runs good. Got a load loaded up for a 600 mile run with almost 17K tomorrow morning. We'll see if she's fixed right.

DURA-MAX3,
Why did they tell me? I was looking at the computer over there with the mechanic on how to replace the head (its on computer now, no more books) and thats where it stated there were 3 different gaskets. 3 different thicknesses like D-max Man said. It suprised the mechanic also. They were going to order all 3 because they didn't know which one I had without taking the head off. I needed my truck if it ran so they dug a little further and found out about the casting marks on the front side of the head.

Mac,
Mine are a B gasket which is a 1 holer'. It was built in early 01'.

Blacktruck-1,
The green color is the dye they put in the dex-cool. It changed to green color to glow for the ultra-violet light to detect leaks in the system. Its all orange again with fresh stuff.

[ChevysRus]

Well I followed this with great interest as it seems to be the first real incident of a failed head gasket. Your information was fantastic and the pictures were over and above whatever could have been expected. I really envy your relationship with your dealer and mechanic. This really goes a long way to assure you of the extra care and diligence put into your repair work.

Everytime I go to my dealer, I can't get past the stormtroopers with the Uzi's directing me to the burnt coffee and stale donut waiting room area. Actually the highlight is pretending to be looking at the stuff in the parts department while looking through the window into the shop area LOL

I have a pretty good relationship with the service writer, but the shop area is off limits!!

It's unfortunate, but time is money and to have the "hired help" actually talking to customers won't do. Boy if they only knew what a customer service bonus it would be to have a "meet your mechanic" day at the dealership ha ha ha.

Anyway, can't praise you enough for the documentary on your truck. We should all be so lucky.

The only remaining question in my mind is why the gasket failed, is it something inherent in that particular gasket design or was maybe one or two bolts not propoerly torqued at the beginning allowing just a slight leak that got worse as the gasket was eaten away. may never know, but sure would be interesting to find out and how many more like this are out there right now if any.

best regards,

[SoCalDMAX]

Maverick,

I've been reading this thread with great interest and although I'm saddened it happened to you, I'm very glad they got it fixed right and diagnosed it properly.

Live ChevysRus said, you have a great rapport with your service dept. and the rest of us get treated exactly the way he mentioned... I can't thank you enough for the great pics and info you posted, IOU a beverage of your choice if we ever make it to a Rendezvous! :D

To answer ChevysRus' question, my theory is that it's impossible to make every part perfect, a bad one will slip thru once in a while. I think that the cylinder pressures that these have already been subjected to (I won't mention names ;) ) have proven the strength of the design. It's just bad luck that Mav got a bad head gasket, torque job or whatever caused that one to fail. Considering the number of trucks out there and the mileage that some have seen, I think it's a pretty reliable drivetrain overall.

Regards, Steve

[Maverick]

Well shes got 90,561 miles.

There is bad news though. Low coolant light came on again. Something is still putting pressure into the cooling system. Whatever is causing this is what caused the leaky gasket he thinks. Too much pressure. When the light comes on I check the tank and its down 2-3 inches and all the hoses are rock hard. When I crack the cap the level comes up and pressure is released on the hoses. At least I am not losing coolant anymore. The leaks are fixed. When need find out what is causing this pressure so no more leaks develop. We changed the cap on the tank out with the same result and also the thermostats.

Any other ideas? My mechanic thinks there is still combustion gas getting into the system. He thinks the left head gasket. I could use that drink right now SoCal.

[mackin]

Maverick,

There gonna test the coolant for CO2 right? To determine if it is a head gasket problem .......

MAC

[SoCalDMAX]

Mav,

How about mentioning to the mechanic what More Power suggested, perhaps a leaky injector cup seal.

I hear ya on the drink, hang in there! :D

Good luck, Steve

[Maverick]

Mac,

He did test for CO2 when I pulled in this afternoon and it was a "9" he said. He said that was nothing.

SoCal,

I an injector cup was leaking, wouldn't it show up on the compression test? Even a little. He said all cylinders were 400.

Need another shot. :D

[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]

[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

[D-max Man]

Maverick,

It is possible to see the identification holes in the headgasket without removing the heads.

[Heavy Duty Neil]

Hmmm,...Could the intercooler have a leak in it, thus building pressure in the coolant system?
Doesn't coolant also flow through the turbo housing?

Sorry man, just shootin' in the dark...

[D-max Man]

The inner cooler (charge air cooler) on this truck is air-to-air not air-to-water so there is no way a leaking inner cooler could cause his problem.

The turbo bearing housing is water-cooled but it would be next to impossible to leak between there and the oil (short of a bad casting).

[ChevysRus]

Well it is exasberating for you I am sure, but at least they documented the problems before you go out of warranty and should still cover it all.

I have a wild off the wall thought, not sure how far the mechanic went when he found the leaking gasket, but maybe they should have leak tested the head itself looking for a tiny expansion crack that would only show up under pressure.

Sometimes when we find what we think we are looking for, we don't check other stuff and just stop there with the obvious. It's possible the head is, god forbid, "cracked" letting pressure build up and causing the weakest points to leak ie; hose and gasket.

I focused on the head, but it just as easily could be a cracked cyl wall or maybe like the mechanic suggested the left side gasket or something else completely. They sound like real great people at that dealership so I am sure they will find it, it just means downtime and complications for you, unfortunately.

Nasty problem to have after you had 85K great service from the truck.

Hang in there, the '03's are ugly so that is not an option LOL It will get fixed.

Best Regards,

[LAK]

Maverick

The reason the coolant level goes up and down as you described before the head gasket was replaced and now is because there is an air bubble in the coolant system somewhere. Maybe in the heater core.

Either they did not get all the air out when they refilled the coolant system or you still have a leak putting air into the system.

Take the coolant tank cap off and start it up and see if there are any air bubbles forming in the tank, sometimes you have to let it warm up and bring the rpms up to find any air bubbles. If there are air bubbles forming in the coolant when running then you have a compression leak.

[SoMnDMAX]

There is an air bleed on the top of the thermostat housing as well. There may just be an air pocket in there...

[Maverick]

Thanks for the ideas.

You would think that the first time after the thermoststs opened and ran coolant though that any air would then be pushed out. Just for kicks today I left the cap loose and taped it so it could not tighten or fall off. I the taped a bottle on the overflow hose. It filled up the bottle and overflowed. Low coolant light came on also. I then added more coolant to the cold line and tightened the cap. Left the bottle on the overflow hose. Not a drop in the bottle but the coolant is down 2-3 inches below the cold mark.

I need everyone to check something if you would please. Check your coolant level when its cold and open the cap. What does it do? Check your coolant level when its hot and then open the cap (very slowly). What does it do?

My other Duramax coolant level changes maybe 1/2 an inch and has just a breath of pressure in it.

[mackin]

Mav ,,

Mine does exactly what yours does....Fluctuates a half inch,from cold to hot, and barely audible whisper of pressure when hot while opening cap on p u k e tank....
Hope you get it figured out soon.....


MAC

[ 08-17-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[Maverick]

We shes got 91,403 miles.

Still can't figure this out.

I filled up the tank, left the cap loose and put the overflow hose in a Pepsi bottle. It filled the Pepsi bottle and ran over.

This morning I filled the tank, tightened the cap and ran 400+ miles with 15K and it filled the Pepsi bottle and ran over.

We changed the cap, both thermostats, right cylinder gasket and the system is still getting pressurized. Mechanic said if it was a injector cup seal it would have a bad misfire. All external leaks seem to be fixed. I am only loosing coolant through the overflow hose now. It still runs good though.

What are the only options left? I can only think of the left head gasket.

Anymore guesses????

[ 08-17-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

[letsgo]

Steam injection using the hot engine water was used back in the 1930s in tracters for a gain in horsepower and smoother and quieter running, of coarse you would have to top up the rad with water constantly as well as the gas tank.

good luck

GMC 2002 DURAMAX SLT EXCAB SHORT BOX 2500HD 4X4 AUTO

[ram/tx]

Mavrick---Just a rookie here, but I have alot of experience with gas motors, you have never said what your Temperature gauge is reading when all of this is happening. Does it go past 195 and can you hear your fan kick in on those long hard pulls. Have you checked for bugs in your radiator? In my experience on **** bottles over flow, it has always been because of heat or blockage in the passage of the water flow though the engine and radiator or air in the system. Just some food for thought. Hope you find the problem soon.

[Maverick]

Temp never goes over 195. The fan does come on on the hard pulls. No outside blockage that I can see.

[ 08-18-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

[odoh]

I would think the GM tech would be aware of the air bleed bolt on the gooseneck/thermostat housing to eliminate chances of air lock/trapped air in the system but who really knows? ~ odoh

[hoot]

Important: If you do not follow the procedure below, a low or high coolant level condition and/or vehicle damage could result.

1. Park the vehicle on a level surface.
2. Follow the steps below in order to remove the surge tank fill cap:

2.1. Slowly rotate the cap counterclockwise.
2.2. Stop rotating and allow the hissing to stop.
2.3. After all hissing stops, continue turning counterclockwise in order to remove the cap.

3. Open the radiator drain cock.
4. Allow the system to drain completely.
5. Inspect the engine coolant for the following:

o Discolored - follow the flush procedure below.
o Normal in appearance - continue with the next step.

Notice: When adding coolant, use DEX-COOL coolant. If silicated coolant is added to the system, premature engine, heater core or radiator corrosion may result. In addition, the engine coolant will require change sooner-at 50 000 km (30,000 mi) or 24 months. The following notice applies only to the 4.8L, 5.3L, and 6.0L engines.

Notice: DO NOT use cooling system seal tabs (or similar compounds) unless otherwise instructed. The use of cooling system seal tabs (or similar compounds) may restrict coolant flow through the passages of the cooling system or the engine components. Restricted coolant flow may cause engine overheating and/or damage to the cooling system or the engine components/assembly.

6. Close the radiator drain cock.
7. Fill the system through the surge tank opening.
8. Pre-mix a 50 to 60 percent solution of DEX-COOL and clean, drinkable water.
9. Slowly add the premixed solution to the surge tank until the level is slightly above the surge tank split line.
10. Start the engine.
11. Idle the engine for 1 minute.
12. Loosely install the surge tank cap. Do not allow the system to build up pressure.
13. Cycle the engine from idle to 3000 RPM in 30 second intervals until the engine coolant reaches 99

[mackin]

hoot,

Your funny.......
:D

You forgot .......

25) Pull pants up over plumbers crack......
26) scratch head.......


Mav,

Did the Big Brass at GM get involved yet???????

MAC

[Wally]

I would suspect the head they just changed the gasket on. Obviously you have a leak of combustion gases into the coolant and if it wasn't doing it prior to the gasket replacement then it almost certainly has to be in the head most recently worked on.
More Power mentoned the injector seal.
While they had it apart did they check the head for flatness?
This is scaring me! Reminds me of working on the old inline six Z car. Once the Aluminum head was removed chances were it wouldn't seal until it was decked and if you made the least little error when torquing the bolts it wouldn't seal and had to be removed again.

[hoot]

#24 was a joke

The rest is right from the book.

[Maverick]

Well she's got 91,863 miles.

I stopped in this morning to show him the pepsi bottle. I took it off and dumped it back in except 1/2 a cup. We looked at that little bit and found black material floating in the coolant. He thinks its combustion material. He was going to call GM tech ass. and see what they wanted to do. He said maybe they'll send a new engine up. Find out tomorrow.

It was building pressure before they pulled the head. It had leaks on the front side of the head and a hose above the injector pump. These leaks are fixed but it is still building too much pressure in the system. There was black material in the surge tank before they did anything. There is still black crap getting in the system. They checked the head for warpage and it was well within spec he said. I wish I could call the General myself and talk to some D-Max guru over there. Maybe we would make some progress instead of just guessing at what is wrong.

[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

[Mic]

A little diversed, but non-the-less pertainent to filling the '****' tank...

page 5-6 look at step #3....where is this bleed off valve?


How to Add Coolant to the Coolant
Surge Tank
NOTICE:
The diesel engine has a specific coolant fill
procedure. Failure to follow this procedure
could cause your engine to overheat and be
severely damaged.
If you haven’t found a problem yet, but the coolant level
isn’t at or above the FILL COLD mark, add a 50/50
mixture of clean, drinkable water and DEX-COOL

coolant at the coolant surge tank, but be sure the cooling
system, including the coolant surge tank pressure cap, is
cool before you do it. See “Engine Coolant” in the Index
for more information.

CAUTION:
Steam and scalding liquids from a hot cooling
system can blow out and burn you badly. They
are under pressure, and if you turn the coolant
surge tank pressure cap -- even a little -- they
can come out at high speed. Never turn the cap
when the cooling system, including the coolant
surge tank pressure cap, is hot. Wait for
the cooling system and coolant surge tank
pressure cap to cool if you ever have to turn
the pressure cap.

CAUTION:
Adding only plain water to your cooling system
can be dangerous. Plain water, or some other
liquid like alcohol, can boil before the proper
coolant mixture will. Your vehicle’s coolant
warning system is set for the proper coolant
mixture. With plain water or the wrong mixture,
your engine could get too hot but you wouldn’t
get the overheat warning. Your engine could
catch fire and you or others could be burned.
Use a 50/50 mixture of clean, drinkable water
and DEX-COOL
coolant.
NOTICE:
In cold weather, water can freeze and crack the
engine, radiator, heater core and other parts.
So use the recommended coolant.
CAUTION:
You can be burned if you spill coolant on hot
engine parts. Coolant contains ethylene glycol
and it will burn if the engine parts are hot
enough. Don’t spill coolant on a hot engine.

1. You can remove the coolant surge tank pressure
cap when the cooling system, including the coolant
surge tank pressure cap and upper radiator hose,
is no longer hot. Turn the pressure cap slowly
counterclockwise (left) about one full turn. If you
hear a hiss, wait for that to stop. A hiss means
there is still some pressure left.
If you hear a hiss, wait for that to stop. A hiss means
there is still some pressure left.
2. Then keep turning the pressure cap slowly, and
remove it.
3. After the engine cools, open the air bleed valve on
the thermostat housing.

CAUTION:
You can be burned if you spill coolant on hot
engine parts. Coolant contains ethylene glycol,
and it will burn if the engine parts are hot
enough. Don’t spill coolant on a hot engine.
4. Fill with the proper mixture. Add coolant until you
see a steady stream of coolant coming from the
bleed valve.
5. Close the bleed valve.
6. Rinse or wipe the spilled coolant from the engine
and compartment.
7. Then fill the coolant surge tank with the proper
mixture, to slightly above the fill mark.
8. With the coolant surge tank pressure cap off, start
the engine and let it run until you can feel the upper
radiator hose getting hot. Watch out for the engine
cooling fan.
By this time, the coolant level inside the coolant
surge tank may be lower. If the level is lower, add
more of the proper mixture to the coolant surge
tank until the level reaches the FILL COLD mark.
9. Then replace the pressure cap. Be sure the pressure
cap is hand-tight.

[Maverick]

Edit.

[ 08-23-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

[hoot]

It's no longer hush now.

Mav,

Hold a mirror to your exhaust. Water will steam it up.

[ 08-20-2002: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>

[DMAX Worker 2]

I'd like to know the name of the mechanic and where he works. I certainly never have heard of any cracked heads. If such a thing DID happen, it would turn my department upside down.

[More Power]

Maverick,
I have received a communication this morning from GM Powertrain concerning what your dealer mechanic said about cracked cylinder heads. Here is their response.

MP
---------------------

"Jim,

I've talked with our engineering and quality people on the attached message. We are not aware of any problems in the field concerning cracking
cylinder heads. We track warranty data monthly and look for any trends that could key us off on a problem and there has been no indication of
cracked heads being a problem. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help stop these rumors. Thanks!

Bill"

----------------------

PS - If "Tony's" is the name of a GM franchised dealership in Anchorage, AK, and if "Greg" is their diesel mechanic, they'll likely be hearing from GM.

[ 08-22-2002: Message edited by: More Power ]</p>

[mackin]

Well, of course it's an isolated incident and we have nothing to worry about ......So I told the inquiring buyer of my Dually with the big FOR SALE sign in the window of my OLD DURAMAX truck, on my way shopping for a D/C...... tongue.gif tongue.gif

DMAX Worker 2,

His name is MUD, cause that's what he is in now......He probably drives a For D oge.....I'm sure GM would let a SECRET get leaked by him.......


Socal,

I hear ya man......No reason to jump ship we have a great technological class leading combo.....Things will and should go wrong.....Metallurgist will tell you things can and will go wrong.....Metal (steel) is not an exact science and works with in tolerances.....There could be numerous reasons why a block (s) cracked,or a cylinder head....Design flaw is not one that I would suggest especially with these two incidents that have come forward.....


01 Dmax owners,
Buy the way the rest of you 01 guys and gals, is your BETA testing compensation check late? Mine is......

MAC
:D :D

[ 08-22-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[BROKERS]

Mav, Juicing and pulling ? Quite the test mule your running.I'd clean up the sig. if i were you.I smell warranty issues.I work my D/A's equally hard and have not had any problems like this.Then again i dont heat them up with all that extra fuel.And drag racing ?That's like beating on the Golden Goose!

Mav,a dealer in Ontario (CDN)called me, telling me about these posts.He asked if i had any problems.
Alot of people are following this one.


Later Tom.

[ 08-22-2002: Message edited by: BROKERS ]</p>

[Maverick]

It should be over 93,000. I didn't look when I dropped it off.

Here I go getting 100 people in trouble again. I was just repeating what my mechanic told me after he got off the phone with someone on the GM tech line. Maybe this individual....I'll stop there. Everyone is acting like this is all Gregs fault. He was just repeating what GM told him. I know Greg pretty well and I highly doubt he would just say that to me. Anyway, I needed the truck today to pull a 10x28 contractor trailer (11K) from Fairbanks to Palmer. Just dropped the truck off at the dealer so the engine is cold for them Fri. morn.

Is the #3 cylinder on the drivers side or how does the order go. They had the right side(pass.) all apart and put together and I still have pressure in the system.

Glad to see someone at the Dmax plant is on the board. What is the likely cause of pressure being built up in the cooling system? Any insite would be helpful.

Broker, what good would it do to edit my sig when you just revealed what I would have edited. I forgot to mention some of the other mods that are not in my sig such as the upgraded injectors, modified turbo, propane, nitrious injection, and the racing turbo diesel fuel I run all the time.

:D

[ 08-23-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

[bbattrell]

Maverick
Yea 1-4 are on the passenger side.

[Paintdude]

Is the dark stuff in the coolant oil? 60lbs of oil pressure would make a cooling system over flow..but the thing would be down on oil also..

Maybe they are using Victor gaskets and a good set of Felpro's and new head bolts would be the cure..

man..I am sure glad you got it in under warrenty..A new engine would be way cool....Good luck

[schnier]

Don't forget, an integral oil cooler designed directly into the engine povides cooler oil to the motor. This could be leaking oil into the coolant and coming back to the reservoir. Just a thought. It does run about 70 psi of oil pressure.

[SoCalDMAX]

WRT to oil pressure, I've seen 145psi at cold startup, just off idle, up to 1500rpm. That was in mild 40* SoCal weather using Delo 400 15W-40.

Regards, Steve

[Maverick]

bbattrell,
I looked at the chart on the Dmax today at the dealer and if I am correct, your crack is on the pass. (right) side. That cylinder is the #5 cylinder. Hows your truck coming along? I didn't get a call from the dealer so I won't know anything until Mon.

The black stuff looks like black carbon or exhaust (from the tailpipe) floating on top and fixed in with the coolant. It is very fine black stuff.

[ 08-26-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

[AKDmax]

Good luck on the fix Maverick. I look forward to driving your truck again since you put the nitrous on!!! LMAO!!! Next time your up this way, give me a hollar... Next trip down your direction is in October for a week in the big city.

[Maverick]

Well the left gasket is bad on the #3 cylinder which is the second from the front. The block looks good on top. They will magnaflux the block to be sure. They sent both heads out to be pressure tested and checked for warpage. There was a 1/2" gap that allowed combustion gas to enter a cooling passage. That explains the excess pressure and the black soot in the coolant. Hope everything else checks OK and get the truck back soon.

[Paintdude]

Glad you found the other problem..Hope you get it back soon..

[ 08-26-2002: Message edited by: Paintdude ]</p>

[FirstDiesel]

Maverick

So both head gaskets were bad??? That's scary!

[bbattrell]

Maverick was it lifted from #3 to the cylinder next to it?
Seems strange 3# was my problem also. Talking to 01_Duramax_Dually he say's he has seen this same cavitation in his race engine when running to much boost. To much boost is also one of the code's my truck set when I had the injetor, and PCM trouble. Could it be a fuel mixture problem with #3?

[01_Duramax_Dually]

BBattrell,
I believe their could be a mismanagement of fuel in the # 3 cylinder causing a lean condition or Vise Versa to much raw fuel. I do not know enough about this EFI system but wonder if this is a Bank to Bank set up or sequential or neither.

As for the head, this phenomenon happens all the time whether Turbo Charged, Centrifically Blown or Supercharged. The inner cylinders have the most havoc wreaked on them and that little area between them(especially on Siamese bores) is suspect when you are really boosting the motor. The head will develop a little lift indentation which is followed by a laek from cylinder to cylinder. This eventually migrates towards a coolant port and WALAH you have a Leak.

I see this condition alot and it requires the head be milled to eliminate the identation however the only way this developes is TOO MUCH BOOST!

Carry On JUICE USERS........ :D

[Geerrhead]

"I do not know enough about this EFI system but wonder if this is a Bank to Bank set up or sequential or neither."

I could provide a little insight here. Many of Chevy's 305's were bank to bank. The Grand National was a sequential design. This means that when #1 cylinder is on the intake stroke, the #1 fuel injector will squirt fuel. On the Chevy, when #1 was on the intake stroke, #1,3,5,7 injector's squirted. Hence the whole, "Bank".

By design, a diesel has no ignition system. A cylinder will only make power, when fuel is squirted into it. This dictates that a diesel has to be sequential. Seeing how a diesel has no throttle body to control the amount of air it ingest's, the engine is governed by the amount of fuel we squirt into it. When you shut your diesel off, basically you are shutting off the supply of fuel, so the engine stalls.

[ 08-27-2002: Message edited by: Geerrhead ]</p>

[letsgo]

Im curious, does DEX-COOL when mixed with oil separate on the con rod and main bearings and cause a surface glazing as does the anti freeze used in cars??????????????(If the exhaust goes one way to the water jacket the DEX-COOL can definatly travel back to the piston cylinder)

GOOD LUCK

[01_Duramax_Dually]

Gerrhead,
Thank you for the insight on the system. Honestly I have not looked nor did I pursue it. Glad someone did.
Sequential system definetly explains the greater potential of a "Lean" condition especially if there was a trigger problem firing injector #3.

I am back to my original comment, More Boost, Lack of fuel. Wounded parts.

[Maverick]

What is maximum boost before the wastegate takes over? Wouldn't it be impossible to over boost? This engine has so much protective garbage on it I think it would be impossible to destroy it unless you drained all the oil out. I think I just had bad parts and a Monday engine. Both heads checked out good they said. Just waiting on parts to put it together.

[mackin]

Maverick,

21 PSI is stock configuration........Now I've asked the question before on this myself.....Waste gate is mechanical, at least I can't see any electrical connections.....There is an over boost trouble code as there is a TSB out for a reflash to correct false code so the puter has control too.....Apparently EDGE can over ride in the software the boost because some and I have, here, reported 28 psi,but yet the gate doesn't open..... They are getting the reading right at the wastegate with a T'd in fitting and it may be off a little (2,3 psi?).....Mine is in the intake tube more accurate, so I was told and my gate keeper is on a sabbatical (plugged but perhaps not much longer) but yet I've seen only around a maximum boost of 30 ish but you got to be hitting it pretty darn hard usually up a grade.....So I too would like to know come the mechanical gate doesn't open at the specified setting??????Somebody knows out with the dirty little secret........

MAC :D

[ 08-28-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

mackin,

My '02 sees boost levels of 24-26 psi when under a full throttle run. I will usually see this pulling up an on-ramp or pulling a long hill.

I have mine in the waste gate hose with a "T" fitting. Does tis read more or less than actual boost??? :confused:

GMC

[hoot]

I have never gone over 25 reading post intercooler, just before the charge goes into the intake manifold.

Amsoil air filter with drilled box.
Straight pipe.
Propane.

[Colorado Kid]

"lean" is meaningless on a diesel. They're almost always lean, that is they almost always have more air than they need. The only time they are not lean is when they are pouring smoke. The thing that can cause blown head gaskets is diesels is advanced injection timing...the fuel get there too early and the cylider pressures go to the moon. What does the juice change all the time, in every level and no matter how hard you push the throttle? That right boys and girls, it advances the injection timing. Up to a point this is a good thing, as the Duramax in stock form runs pretty late timing for low NOx emissions, and advancning it to more normal levels will improve both fuel economy and power. Over doing it is very bad though, just like over advance ignition timing on a gas engine a few degrees too much advance can cause a huge increase in peak pressure and heat, with no coresponding increase in power (because the piston is virtually at TDC when the pressure peaks). I don't know that this is what happened in these two cases. But the fact that both are Juiced, they are the only two head gasket problems I've heard about, and Maverick lost them both (when it was one I thought it was probably a defective gasket, but two defective gskets on one engine is not nearly as easy for me to swallow as radical overpressure caused by advanced injection timing) has led me to the conclusion that I won't be getting Juiced. Kind of like the fuel in oil problems that seemed only to happen to trucks with the fuel pressure fooler.

[FightinTXag]

bbattrell's truck is stock

He had a head gasket leak and cracked cylinder wall. Possibly coolant entered cylinder via the leaky head gasket leading to the cracked cylinder wall.

http://forum.62-65-dieselpage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=003900

[ 08-28-2002: Message edited by: FightinTXag ]</p>

[Colorado Kid]

It is? My bad. redface.gif I really thought he was Juiced. Now I don't know what to think :confused: . I guess I'll sit back and see if any of the rest of the Juicers have toruble. I can't afford any mods right now anyway...still trying to pay for the truck. :cool:

[mackin]

Colorado Kid ,

Yes, he is stock, in addition he has the worst problem unfortunately......What to think? I believe MAV'S truck would have went the way it did regardless, and I feel the same with Bill's .....No matter how diligent one can mass produce parts some will undoubtedly fail...Due to unforeseen circumstances......Not of design flaws or engineering as some would want others to believe.......

MAC

[hoot]

Could have been a bad torque job at assembly. Could have been injector problems, could have been a batch of bad head gaskets. None of the above is due to poor design of the head/block assy.

[hoot]

So basically we have two engines that are Juiced and blew head gaskets.

NO cracked heads.

The cracked block is almost certainly a victim of hydraulic lock. Coolant entered and cause extreme pressure.... BUT... the head did not fail! The block did.

Looks like these heads are handling the abuse. If there is a gasket issue, it will show itself on the stock engines. Until then, we are looking good!

[pepperidge]

Hoot,

BBatrell is bone stock, as Mackin stated above

only one juiced w/a blown head gasket. Lets not add fuel to the F*#d and D&*#e boys campfire even though there still are two cases total. ;)

[hoot]

Fuel to what fire.
OK one was stock. Sorry for the mistake. Bottom line is the future and what it holds, regardless of what is said on these forums. I wish there was a better way to know the real picture than just the few on these forums.

We are at the point where some trucks are beginning to round the 100,000 mile mark.

[MEP]

Mav,
I'm curious. What kind of truck did you run prior to the D-max rig? Did you have problems with it? How heavy is your foot? Your pulling a lot of weight over those passes.

MEP
DP member #739

[pepperidge]

Hoot,

You are absolutely correct about getting the whole picture. I just pointed that out to show what people would say if we did not have the facts straight. example " You can't bomb a duramax it will melt the heads blah blah blah". But I guess what would be worse was if the juice didn't cause it and it was a factory defect inherent to all our trucks even though we know that this is just a small sampling of actual Duramax owners out there and how many never even miss a beat. I bekieve GM as well as all mfrs. should be required to report the mechanical failure rate of all their products.
If they were honest about it. Then we would all know how durable our prides and joys really are.

My .02

[Maverick]

MEP,
I used to run a 96' Chev crew cab K3500 with a 6.5TD and a 5 sp. I guess I am hard on stuff as I had the tranny out of this truck twice and finally bought a new (no rebuild) GM tranny the third time. Traded that truck off with 150K. Engine wise it was a stock truck.

I try to use the cruise when ever possible. With all the slow frigging tourists in the rental RV's up here in the summer I hammer on her pretty hard to pass when ever I can or pass going up hill. The truck gets worked alot harder than 95% of the people on this forum work theirs. I'll put money on that. Ask AKDmax or DetroitBob. They'll tell ya. Its a CHEVROLET.....I expect this truck to take what I throw at it. It has been an excellent truck until now. I had added coolant around 50k and 70k a couple times....way before Edge. So maybe things were just starting to go sour. Who knows. Hopefully this truck will be good to go now for another 200K.

PS: If you come to Alaska, at least drive the speed limit. This driving 45-55 in a 65 to look at the darn trees is driving me nuts. Hammer down and pull over if you want to sight see. My EGT's will thank you.

[AKDmax]

I hear ya Maverick! I was headed down Caribou hunting last week and almost got a truck load of tourists that were trying to cross the road to see a moose. I didn't have a tag for them; how would I explain that to Fish and Game! :D Tourists up here don't realize there are people actually trying to go somewhere on the roadway. It's like one continuous Sunday drive. (Whew, that felt good!)
As far as the workload, Maverick's the MAN. It's a friggin TRUCK with a diesel! If they didn't want us to use them as trucks, they should have put this engine in a Yugo. Couple head gaskets, some coolant and everything's good. This could have happened to anyone, under any circumstance, stock or otherwise IMO. Who hasn't blown a head gasket in their lifetime yet?

[MEP]

Mav.
GM put the 130 GPM water pump in the 6.5 in late 96. If yours had this pump you would of had the dual themostats. If you got 150k out of the 6.5 then you wern't abusing the truck.
The real acid test for these engines will come when they make it into large towing fleets around big cities like Boston, NY or LA. When there being driven 12/14 hrs a day by guys who don't own them. These guys can really wind em up tight. WFO ALL DAY LONG!
I know what you mean about the tourists. There everywhere.

[imported_]

Damm.... one question for our revered forum....WHY DO THEY CALL IT "TOURIST SEASON" WHEN YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO SHOOT THEM?


or the age old classic redneck expression 'WANNA SEE SOMETHING?.......HERE .....HOLD MY BEER! lol..

[FirstDiesel]

A Canadian quoting Rednecks??

Let's try it this way:

"Here hold my beer. I saw this on T.V. and think I can do it"

Or the old favorite:

What are a Redneck's last words??

"Hey Ya'll watch this"

[Maverick]

Got her back. It works as designed. Gotta do delivery tomorrow down this 5 mile muddy road like I did today. Will use the 2500HD one more day since its already muddy. Gotta haul 10 new 02's and 03's (two are the 03' 3500 CC D/A and 1500HD CC QS in my pics) on Tuesday. We'll see if she's fixed again.

[Maverick]

Mackin,
Seen you where asking about me on the other thread. Going on 94,200 miles. Seems to be fixed so far. Pulled a couple loads this week that were 19K+ trailer and freight. Got another 14K+ (freight only-steel roofing) to deliver in the morning. Stopped in the dealership to pick up my Juice that one of the other mechanic was using. He likes it. I need to send it back to get reflashed so I have comfirmation. My mechanic said he could recal for my 19.5's. He put tech 2 on and when in under chassis and tire calibration. 225/70-19.5 was not listed. There were some options of 19.5's but not mine. I had him set it for 235/85-16. This is very close to the 225/70-19.5. Truck sure seems like a dog now for some reason. Did this recal change the power output of the motor? Was the engine automatically detuned because of more calibrated meat to turn? He said this had nothing to do with recaling the ABS. Didn't need to reflash to change the speedo he said. Others here have said different. He did say it may shift different. It shift 1-2 at redline, 2-3 at 2750, and the rest at redline. What does everyone else shift at on the 2-3 shift? I never paid much attn. before.

[mackin]

Maverick,

So two head gaskets,stopped the coolant over flow ,glad to here it's fixed......
I'll tell ya when I got my truck new it was a go getter ,added the JUICE and it's a Lunatic,take the JUICE away it's gutless as a two legged cat stuck in a tree wanting to leap.....Thought you got yours local?Go swap it out ,let them send it back...... ;)
It's got to be them big meats too....What is your gear ratio now?


MAC :D

[Maverick]

Mac,
It was fine till I had him recal for tires. Just seemed alot slower. I guess I could see if he will swap it out. The different tire size didn't seem to be an issue. Can still leave dual marks if I like (juiced of course). The ratio changed very little. Your right though. Without the go go box it just drives like 600lb pig with 6" legs in 2ft of ****.

Bummer about the ticket. Got one about a month ago. 71 in a 55. $78 bucks and 4 points. I paid it.

Has anyone tried that new detector with the GPS locator for false alarms? Don't know the make.