TOWING

[PONCH]

HELP
When I decided to buy this truck I was under the impression from this site that it was/is a 1 ton truck. Is that correct or not? I have E tires on it.
Also the 5er that I am wanting to purchase is a 36' Mobile Suites which is at or just above the limit as I see it. If you put air bags on would that not work? my truck weighs 7100lbs full of fuel, two pax's, ready to go.
THANK YOU

[DmaxMaverick]

One ton? Theoretically, yes. The GVWR is 9200#. It is higher than SRW one tons in years past. The newer SRW 3500's GVWR is 9900#. In recent years, the term 3/4 ton, one ton, 1/2 ton don't really mean much. The 2500HD shares the same powertrain and brakes as the 3500, dual or single. The only difference between the 2500HD and 3500SRW is tire size (3500SRW has 265/75/16) and an extra spring.

What is the GVWR of the trailer you are looking at? What is the pin weight? I pull a 30' at near 12K/2K with no problems. A 36' Mobile Suites would be considerably more. I have upgraded my tires/wheels to 285/75/16D on Centerline ED 16X8's. The capacity of each tire is 300# more than the OEM 245/75/16E. 265/75/16E's have a capacity of more yet.

I don't recommend towing above OEM spec's. Many folks do it with no issues. Some with air bags, some without. Airbags offer some stability and increased capacity over OEM springs, but good shocks are just as important to maintain control (OEM's are junk). A lot depends on what your local laws are. Some states are strict, some don't care as long as you pay the correct weight fees.

Your truck will probably tow that trailer with no problem. You have to consider all factors, putting safety before everything else.

[PONCH]

Well my tires are E rated.

Shocks are not a problem. any suggestions?
I just don't want to have to go buy another truck and I dearly love mine but I don't want to be unsafe either.

It's a lot cheeper to put on bags and shocks than a new truck. BUT safety first!

I have talked to numerious people who transport new 5er's and they seem to think that I wouldn't have any problem at all in fact the two companies that haul the Mobil Suites use 3/4 as well as ton PU's with no problem. ?

[DmaxMaverick]

The tire ratings are determined by two things. Ply rating (E, D, C, etc.) and size. The greater the volume (contact patch) of the tire, the greater the capacity, within its respective ply rating. That is why the 245/75/16E has a lower capacity than the 265/75/16E and 285/75/16D. If you want to stay with the OEM tire diameter, you will have to go to a wider and/or taller tire. Your OEM tires are rated at 3042# each. The 265/75/16E is rated at 3415#. The 285/75/16D is rated at 3305#, at 65 PSI, vs. 80 PSI for the 245. It is better to choose tires that well over capicity than to be close to max.

Shocks. That's a no brainer. Bilstein. Contact JK at kennedydiesel.com (http://www.kennedydiesel.com) for those. Best price anywhere and he's a DP advertiser.

I suggest you try without airbags at first. They are costly and may not be necessary. They will not add anything to the safety factor unless you have serious control problems. 5th wheels usually don't have such issues. If you are within, or close to OEM ratings, you should be OK. Bare in mind that the "transporters" you talk to only tow empty units. A trailer that is "ready to go" will also have a LOT of additional weight. The transporters don't [generally] tow trailers with full tanks, and all the other stuff you, your wife, and kids will pack in. That additional weight can easily get the GVW over max. I know mine will if I don't keep a short leash on my wife. She really doesn't need 30 pairs of shoes for a 14 day trip, if you know what I mean.

[PONCH]

For talking purposes only:
I do not understand why anyone would fill the water tank to go anywhere. That is probably the largest increase that one could add to their coach.

I guess that one of the critical things is stopping the rig and I'm not sure that I believe a 3500 would do any better.

The MS does have a third axel option but that doesn't help with stopping necesarily. I do ahave a prodigy brake control that would help and that's just all it will do, HELP.


DECISIONS DECISIONS DECISIONS LOL

[DonG]

Ponch,
If you looking for someone to say it is O.K. to pull that trailer I cannot.
But you can, if you do some basic math.

Load your truck to what it will be loaded to for a trip and weigh it. Subtract that from what your truck can carry. Also weigh the rear axle by itself since a 5th wheel will directly affect that load.

Next find out what the trailer weighs and find out the kingpin weight. If you cannot get the dealer to weigh the trailer, then you need to add weight to his "trailer weight" because his weight does not include batteries, propane, and various options over the very simplest trailer. To all this you need to add around 1500# that most vacationers add before trips. Some people add more than 2000# before a trip.

With this total calculate 20% of the trailer weight and use this for the pin weight. Now answer your basic questions.
Does the trailer weigh more than what the truck is rated to pull?
Does the pin weigh more than the rear axle is rated to hold?

With these two answer you can make your decision.
Good Luck.
Don

[PONCH]

Thanks Don
That's what I was looking for.
No I really am not trying to get someone to say it's OK I just want to understand exactly what I'm getting into.The same coach being pulled by a 3500 seems to be OK???
yet all we are talking about is tires and an extra leaf.
Oh well I never did say I knew everything. LOL

[MIKE WIENER]

Just to clear one thing up. I fill my 52 gal. water tank up and evan take an aditional 55 when I go out to the desart for a week or two. Water is just a lettle hard to come by in the middle of the deasert.

Good luck with the trailer. A fiver is so nice compared to a tag. I find my self alot more relacsed be hind the wheel.

MIKE

[DonG]

PONCH,

I went through a similiar issue. I had a 2500HD D/A on order but GM delayed building it so long I had to pick up my new trailer with an old truck to get it home. On the way home I weighed everything, truck, axles and hitch pin weight.

I was under the limit of 22,000 lbs. that the new truck could pull with total combined weight. But the pin weight was over 3300 lbs. This was far more than my ordered truck could handle on those two tires. (Max of about 6086#).

So I cancelled my order for a 2500 and ordered a 3500 D/A. First time a company not delivering a product was good for me.

Good Luck. Don

[ 08-27-2004, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Don G ]

[Heartbeat Hauler]

Ponch,
You still haven't given us any specs on the trailer you are going to pull, i.e. GVW, pin weight, etc. I read in your post that you said others have pulled this trailer with 3/4 ton PU, but just because you can doesn't mean you should. You said it best, safety first. Give us some specs and you can get a better idea of what you are in for when towing this rig.
JP

[PONCH]

The trailer is under the 22000 combined limit.
Trailer dry is 12500 with a pin weight in the 2000-2500 range. This is where I'm having my problem. I am not going to go full time but will go in the winter.
Truck weghs 7100 ( that is with a trailer hitch, bed cover loaded for travel, full of fuel and me and momma). Maybe I need to just go weigh the truck without the hitch and loaded for a trip.
The bed cover would still be on and no hitch but I don't think that would be over 2-300 lbs.
IF we go ahead and buy and it doesn't work I'll either have to sell the fifth or change trucks whick I really don't want to have to do.
GVW on trailer is 16000.

[DonG]

Ponch,

I have one concern with the data you provided.
With a trailer dry weight of 12,500# you will very likely be near 15,000# when loaded. For best towing you want close to 20% on the pin. That weight would then be 3000#.

I think the pin weight you were given was for dry weight. Will the rear tires on your truck handle an additional 3000#.

Good Luck with your decision, Don

[billnourse]

Ponch,

You're probably going to be over by a bit. My 32' weighs 12,000 wet, and I am a little over GVW.
My total weight is 19,500, with the pickup weight of 9,900. Though I am under the 22,000, I am 600 over the pickup's 9200 limit. It tows well, and I have no problems, but I wouldn't want to go much more, plus I have 265/75/16's which gives me a higher tire rating.

Regards

Bill

[Murray the Cop]

As far as the dry weight at 12500 and actuall being 15000,I'm not so sure. Inside the cabinet over the sink is a sticker that supposedly has the weight of the trailer with options( what I would consider true dry weight). If that number is 12500 then I doubt your gonna load it with 2500 pounds of gear and even if you did it wouldn't all be in the front. You could actually reduce pin weight by adding to the rear. My Montanna was listed at over 10,000 and the sticker reads 9600. My pin was listed at 2000. How you could get the pin from 2000 to 3500 is ridiculous unless you are loading bags of cement in the basement(front). I added the air bags for the sag which helped tremendously. NO SAGG!! 285/75R16 Revos. I have towed as far as 500 miles, one way, with no problems. Not very far but I just got started. The truck is the same as yours except for the fact its a 4x4. Which incidently lowers my towing capacity. Try to get a more accurate pin weight.Weigh the rear with and with out the trailer then decide how far over you are. Even the dry weight(pin) before options won't change by 1500 pounds with options. Everything would have to be added in front of the axels. Good luck, I went through the same thing before I purchased.
Anthony

[Heartbeat Hauler]

Well, I'm conservative when comes to towing and I'm thinkin' you should maybe consider a lighter trailer. The pin weight seems to be pretty high for a 2500. I think the truck will tow it, but you may be be in for an exciting ride if the wind kicks up.
JP

[Greg McCall]

IMO and from many similar posts, you would benifit from a dually with that weight. The 4 tires in back will make the rig and drive much more stable. For an occassional pull, I would think your fine. At least you have upgraded your tires.

[CaptainSir]

A word of caution on towing heavy trailers, especially with a dually!

As I recently found out, if the total LISTED gross weight of your truck & trailer is over 26,000 pounds, you need a Class A commercial drivers license. Doesn't make any difference what your rig actually weighs or the fact that the GM manual says the combined maximum is 22,000 pounds. Also doesn't make any difference if you use it in business or not. So, if you are driving a newer dually and your trailer has a gross of over 14,500-15,000 or so, get ready to go through the hassles of getting your CDL (including physical exam). Too bad the people selling the trucks and heavy trailers don't tell you this but it would probably cut down on their sales. Yes, qualified RV's are exempt but, depending on your rig, you may or may not qualify as an RV. I don't, even though I have a horse trailer with complete self contained living quarters.

Also, for those that use their trucks with or without a trailer for ANY business related purpose, especially interstate, the listed gross weight, single or combined, before you need a US DOT number (complete with all the paperwork requirements) is 10,001 pounds.

I have gone round and round with the MN DOT and State Patrol and haven't found a way to LEGALLY get out of the requirements. So, I now have my Class A license, medical, annual truck & trailer safety inspections and will soon be going through the mandatory DOT audit.

Sorry for the long post but the DOT regs are very confusing and most people who tow aren't aware of them. Getting caught without the proper license and inspections can get quite expensive and the State Troopers who usually do the enforcement usually take their jobs VERY seriously.