Major Problem when Juice Installed

[Dave_WB3FYV]

I finally succumbed to the peer pressure and ordered The Juice. It arrived in the rain on Tuesday, so didn't get installed until last nite. It's a version 3.5 so I figured it would have none of the problems setting the level BUT would still have the benefit of the level confirmation. Installation went well, or so I thought...

Plugged right in, just like the instructions said. Connectors slid together slowly and carefully so as not to push out or bend any pins. Hop in, fire it up - good so far. Shut down and set the level in normal mode to 4, following the instructions. Change Engine Oil light flashes 3 times so I figure I got the pedal far enough to the floor to set it correctly. Start the truck, so far so good. Try the confirmation - and it surges continuously until I pumped the accelerator a bit, then it idled normally. Try again, same thing. OK, I figure I'm not setting it right, but wanted to take it aroound the block anyway. Runs good, nice increase in power. Shifts nice so I figure the Confirmation is the only problem.
Parked overnite, tried to set level 4 and check confirmation again this morning, same thing. Level set to infinity... now I'm running late. Driving to work it stalls several times, like it doesn't want to idle. I noticed the tach needle swing up to 3000 from 600 and the Message Center light flash red briefly whenever I backed off the throttle and the torque convertor was unlocked below 50mph. That did NOT happen last nite! Had to keep my foot in it to keep from stalling whenever slowing down, but ran ok otherwise.
The sun still hadn't come up when I parked (dead stick I might add, and this truck is hard to handle with no engine power) but I'll be heading out to check things at lunch.

What should I be looking for? Bent pins and incomplete connections are on top of the list. Fuel filters are still on order so I can't change one of those, but since it JUST started acting funny when the Juice was plugged in makes me think everything else is ok. In fact it was running GREAT until I popped the hood last night !!! Go figure...

Read a post where Mackin had a problem with continuous surging for confirmation, but I didn't see anything changed or fixed to stop it. Others had to swap boxes or get rid of it entirely - don't want to do that!

One thing, after re-reading all the related stories - I only set the Normal transmission position, did not press the T/H since I don't use it and don't care what level it's at. Could it be that simple? Has anyone else just set the Normal mode??? I'll update this saga after bean-time... Hope I can at least get it back to the way it was without the Juice...

Wish me luck!

[Chris N5CWM]

Scary stuff, messing with a new $40K truck and
having it stall while driving it in traffic while
late for work :eek: I'd be a little stressed!
Hope you get it figured out soon.

By your sig, you're interested in the same basic
stuff as I am..ham radio, motorcycles. Heheheh..
I've been hammin' since '92 and ridin' motorcycles since 1979. Right now I have two
Kawasaki's, a 1999 ZRX1100 and '95 KLX650C
dual-sport. Here's my website:
http://n5cwm.dynip.com/
Pictures of the bikes on there too.

-Chris

[ 07-25-2002: Message edited by: Chris N5CWM ]</p>

[GBurton]

Hi Dave

I know this is off the topic but have you found a solution to the HF noise that the injector system puts out? HF mobile operation would be much more enjoyable if I could quiet down the engine noises.

George
k7wwa(remove :rolleyes: this)@saber.net

[Dave_WB3FYV]

No Chris, I get waaaay too much stress at work, the truck could be on fire and I'd just shrug my shoulders while reaching for another beer...
You would think that having a background in Mechanics AND Electronics this stuff wouldn't bother me at all, but I do get frustrated.

Yes, we have the same interests - I've been building radios since I was 9 and overhauled my first motorcycle at 12, so this is old hat. Grew up with a '69 GTX with a Hemi, wish I would have kept it... Current motorcycle is number 16 in the series - and I've had all different brands, some good - some not so good ;) Two big Kawasakis are in the garage in Texas, need to be torn apart and one good made from both, they stopped making spare parts for those things 20 years ago! Good to see another radio operator on the forum! Do you have any radio gear in your truck yet? Can you hit the 29.660 repeater in Fort Worth? I can from here in New York on a good day, maybe we can hook up sometime! Then gotta get Mdrag on the air with us ;)

[Dave_WB3FYV]

No George, I haven't been able to get rid of the noise, and that was one of the reasons I switched to a diesel, to get rid of Ignition noise! It's not too bad on 40, 80, and 160 meters (yes mobile 160 :) ) if I keep the ground braid tight and clean from the antenna base to the bed. At speed, it blends into the static and the noise blanker in the IC-706 takes care of it. Really haven't had much time to tinker with it, then I was going to bug GM tech support for noise reduction help. Maybe if both of us call they will get inspired!
Do YOU have radios in the truck yet? I'm always on the lookout for somebody to talk to on long drives that shares a common interest!

[Dave_WB3FYV]

Ok, I feel a little better now, but I'm Juice-less.

Inspected all the connectors at lunch, no bent pins, nothing pushed out on the factory side. I noticed an extra row of pins in the small connector, half of the center holes have pins, but the same connector on the truck just has empty holes. Wonder if they are required for something I don't have? Anyway, plugged it back in, started the truck and it idled fine. Then I reved the engine and it wanted to die as soon as I took my foot off. Smooth revving up, but it wants to drop RPM immediately and seems to want to drop too low and die. Didn't even have to drive around the lot to know something was wrong. Made no attempt to set or confirm a power level, and since it was unplugged for about 5 minutes while checking pins, I figured it would return to base program.

Disconnected the Juice and the truck runs stock just fine - so nothing else got hurt.

I'll have to wait until a day off to play more, don't want to get stuck on the road, the Goat Trail I travel doesn't have a place to pull over, unless you want to go over the cliff into the Hudson River!

Now I gotta do a few burnouts in the parking lot to save face, the truck died on the plant access road this morning - right in front of the guard shack - and they all asked if I was "...having a little trouble with that new truck..." I gotta show off a little, mine is the only Dmax on site and I get questions about it all the time.
More on this later.

[Joe Pool]

Dave,

Contact Aaron at Edge Products ASAP. Sounds like you had some of the same problems that I had with my initial Juice install. I am in the process of trying the unit that they sent back to me. I believe that there was a fuel control problem with my first unit -- it seemed to dump the pressure, blow a big puff of fuel smoke out the tailpipe and then die ( gauges acted the same way ).

I also tried disconnecting and reinstalling the first unit several times with similiar results each time ( ran fine without / didn't want to keep running with ).

Joe :confused:

[ 07-25-2002: Message edited by: Joe Pool ]</p>

[Kennedy]

Dave,

Just for grins, I would suggest trying the box on a different truck if available...

[MGM]

JK, I have mine set at level 3 in normal mode and 4 in T/H. is this the way to go for street fun, no towing,thanks Mike.

[Dave_WB3FYV]

It's almost nice to see that someone else had a similar problem, makes me think there is a real solution. Thanks Joe. No smoke puff on mine though, but it sure acts like the fuel just quits flowing, rpm drops right NOW.

JK
I want to play with it this Saturday if it doesn't rain. Go thru the whole thing very slowly and carefully so I don't miss anything, try a little troubleshooting. Look for smoke, that kind of thing. Is there a way to check for codes being set without visiting a dealer? I assume fuel pressure is monitored.

Nearest truck I am familiar with is Ed's, but haven't seen his name posted in a while.

Next is Mackin, but he's been conspicously quiet on this thread ;) How about it Mac, wanna experiment with a 3.5? I just know you won't mind going thru all the hassle getting your truck back to normal afterwards!!! only kidding...I'll look for somebody not already Juiced.

[denverdale]

Hey Dave and GBurton
Where did you mount your radios? I dont have one yet to install, but with the center consol, there isn't a lot of room. I would like to get a nice 2meter rig to set in there somewhere.
Denverdale (KA0SRP)

[BOOMERHD]

Hey Dave,

You are not alone here in New York. I was the first to test the proto box,....Mackin was second, sorry mackin. I have experienced the same with version 3.6. It seemes that the timing gets messed up @ idle sometimes. Aaron is working on a fix. It looks close to being done. If you get to Bridgehampton, bring the box, and i'll test in my DMAX. I'm 2 hours out of NYC at the beach.

BOOMERHD

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Silver Bullet]

Dave_WB3FYV -

Try searching on fort worth, ft. worth, Texas, or TX...it looks like there are a number of guys close to you. If you can't find anyone let me know and I might be able to help you out as far as another truck to test on.

[TXMAX]

Dave,

I'm here in Foat Wuth! I have tried the Edge from a local shop here in town. I honestly didn't see any big improvement. It also did the continous surge thing when I tried to get it to do the confirmation surge but other than that it ran normally. I took it out on a deserted access road off NW Loop 820 and did a power break start. It spun both wheels for about 20 yds and then just pulled strong but that is pretty much what it does anyway. Bottomline, I did not see the the huge improvement (smoking tires through 1st and then getting shift chirps) that others here have indicated. It may be that the box I tried was not accepted by my truck so I'm willing to try another one. It was also in the high 90's. Let me know when you're in town so we can try to get our schedules to match (I travel alot).

Good luck,

Abe

[GBurton]

Ham radio questions - I started a new topic in the
2500HD/3500 Accessories section. Lets talk about it there.

George

[RVGuy]

Hey Dave,

I live in Irving, but plan on pulling the TT down to Cedar Hill State Park on Joe Pool lake tomorrow evening and will be there until Sunday afternoon. If you want to try it on another truck, I'll be available.

Thing is, you'll need to let me know before I leave, otherwise we won't be able to hook up.

BTW, I'm a ham also....KB0X. I'm originally from Springfield, MO....the reason for the zero call.

[Plasticfantastic]

I had this problem. It wasn't the juice in my case, I was doing something wrong.
After you mash the accelerator three times and return it to park ... TURN THE KEY OFF, don't start it up. Turn key off, take key out, wait a sec, put key back in and start up as normal.
May not work for you, you are probably already doing it right but mine works perfect now and it did EXACTLY as you describe before I figured out what I was doing wrong.

[mackin]

Dave,

I would have chimed in sooner, but I'm on vacation and my family keeps dragging me away....... :( Anyway sounds to me you'all I got a lemon.......I don't think trying it on another truck will tell you anything but that......You probably did, but, Make sure none of the pins on the Juice box are pushed out or bent not making connection......i did have the infinity thing, but no drivability issues...... I was apparently setting the levels improper, yea right...... All is well, still think other box was quicker, all though....... I'll be talking with Aaron soon........ If you want E-mail me and perhaps we can hook up early Sunday am, if the wife has nuttin planned.... I'll put my box on your truck, not vise versa......Let me know......I'll see if I can come out and play......I'm BANK'SD now, I did it in between cutting the grass,she thought I was still mowing,but I was under the truck ...... Women ..... :eek:
MAC

[ 07-25-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Dave_WB3FYV, Mackin,Plasticfantastic

I was reading your posts and after looking at your SIGS I see that you all have 2001's. I was wondering if something may have changed from 01 to 02's even though you guys may or may now have had any or all of the available updates.

So far my '02 has accepted the "Juice" without any problems ( thank GOD !! ) and I have reset the levels on N and T/H several times just playing to see the differences.

I am not quite sure I understand the infinity thing, are we talking about Level 4???

The only thing I had to do was fast learn the ALLI after the initial install. Been 1 week and 380 miles with No Problems to speak of.

Hope you guys figure it out, it could just be that individuality thing.

GMC ;)

[ 07-25-2002: Message edited by: GMC-2002-Dmax ]</p>

[mackin]

GMC-2002-Dmax,

All Chevy's too,I see you didn't point that out........What's up with that?????? I don't think thats it......You had your chance.......


I don't believe it's a year thing,Dave has had all the updates too...... Me ,nope........

MAC :D :D :D

[NutNbutGMC]

^....Just wait until she finds out you were installing the Banks instead of mowing. You a$$ will be the next thing mowed, 'cause it will be grass..... :D

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

mackin,

I was unaware they were Chevy's, are they all BLACK?????? Maybe "DA JUICE" likes GMC's better tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif

I might have to call Aaron and ask him on this one. Maybe it's a plot or something.

Let's get together soon, sooner than September.

L8TER,

GMC :D

[mackin]

GMC-2002-Dmax,

Black???????? YUP !!!!!!!!!


NutNbutGMC,

I finished mowing when I was done......... I think I fooled her...... Anouther chunk of change (grass) gone, She'd be ,"What is the Exhaust wore out all ready" YUP tongue.gif I'll keep quiet till I get my 5" tailpipe.... Cause if I don't ,what am I gonna tell her? It's for looks ,probably get more then my a$$ mowed........

MAC :D :D

[ 07-25-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[Chris N5CWM]

DFW guys, I believe Dave is at "work" in NYC right
now. Read the bottom of his posts, where it says
"Home" and "work". He also mentions his drive to
work being along the Hudson River. ;)

I'm gonna look for the Ham Radio related thread...

:D

[56Nomad]

Just amazing to read all this......

I'm waiting for more R&D, maybe version 5. something
will have all the bugs worked out.

An off and on switch is really all I want :rolleyes:

[7mmSTW]

I recently installed a juice on an '01 GMC. It took it several times to finally set. Comfirmation would just keep revving as some have experienced. This should mean that it is in level 2. While trying to later set the box on 4 it did alot of funny things. One was it made the radio flash Err and not play CD's. This continued untill we pulled the (-) cables off of the batteries and then reconnected. This seemed to clear up the problem with the radio. The box finally started to set properly on Normal. It still would not set on T/H. The owner then drove the truck around on 4 for a day. Then tried to reset the T\H on 4 and it worked like a charm. Persistance may be the key to setting the juice the first few times. It seems as if it has to get aquainted with the different pickups. Again adding to John Kennedy's individualistic theory.

Later

Seven

[Dave_WB3FYV]

To all the Texans,
Really want to thank all ya'll for the offers, but like Chris said, I'm working in New York at this time. That's why I missed the DFW Rendevous, hopefully for the first and last time! Hey, it's a living...

Mackin,
Just pullin' yer chain! Figured you would have a comment about a persnickedy Juice box and wondered why you hadn't posted sooner. Enjoy the vacation... I gotta work thru this weekend so no time to meet and play. I'm going to try the box again, set it like Plasticfantastic and Seven suggest, can't hurt and there is a remote possibility that it will work!

Boomer,
Nothing I'd like better than to spend a little time on the Beach talking trucks, but work gets in the way. If my next experiment doesn't work, I'll call and work out a date and time. Appreciate the offer.

GMC-2002-Dmax,
the Infinity thing we refer to is the confirmation pulse or pulses. When you set power level 4, the engine should rev 4 times if you do the P-R-N-R-P thing (or twice for level 2, etc.). Mine (and others) would rev continuously until either shut off or press the accelerator pedal. For a while there I thought I had it set to Level 27 !!! but no.

7mmSTW
Haven't had a problem with the radio, but I didn't have it on while testing the Juice. It worked fine after I took it off. Good to know it'll reset if disconnected, thanks for the info!


So now I'm getting curious. Typically, electronics either work - or they don't, no 'warming up' like the old days. But with the Artificial Intelligence built into this truck, it may deserve a second chance. The bottom line looks like I will try the Juice again, turn the truck to face Japan (instead of Detroit!) and hold my mouth just right while wispering a prayer to the Diesel gods. You'll know if it works when you see a bald-headed fat guy dancing in the street!
If not, look for a mushroom cloud!
I'll document the sequence that works (or doesn't) and post it seperately, so the next guy doesn't have to go thru this!
Sure is nice to have all this support !!!

[BOOMERHD]

Dave,

I do often drive into the city with the rig. I used to live in there, and still have family in the apple. I got out in time, years ago. I will be going up to Cornwall in Sept. too.

Mackin,

Let me know after you speak to Aaron. I did send you back some mail.

P.S.-- didn't you guys know that the '01 is faster than the '02, '03 stock models anyway.

Boomerhd :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Dave_WB3FYV]

UPDATE

Spent a few hours off and on today trying different ways to set power levels, etc. At first - no change. Continuous revving when trying to confirm. Then I tried to JUST set the T/H mode. Same thing - BUT when I tried to set Normal - the confirmation WORKED!!! Reved 4 times for level four, 2 for T/H. Now we're getting somewhere. It still wanted to die though, and at one point I got the SES message that stayed illuminated until I restarted the truck 3 times. WHen it set SES, it had just stalled and the engine was making a funny spinng sound, like the clutch fan was still spinning. I almost freaked!!! No other problems, but really had to crank it for a long time to get it refired. So I kept playing, and playing and playing - all the time the confirmation seemed to work ok, but kept wanting to stall. So I took it for a ride in T/H mode, figuring the locked torque convertor in lower gears will keep the engin spinning and maybe it wouldn't die so easily.

It's better...but still not perfect. Seems to be getting better with time, mostly it won't stall while coasting to a stop sign in T/H, but the message center will bling Red Battery, so I know it's still trying to quit.
So, it's still hooked up and I'll try it again tomorrow on the way to work. Hopefully lite Sunday traffic smile.gif

At some point I noticed I had been trying to do this with the drivers door open - and the Security Message blinking away. Tried closing the door and the Change Engine Oil light flashed after I had tried to set Normal mode. Notoced it Doesn't flash when steeing T/H. Anyone else notice this???

Here's the sequence I used:
Key on - engine not running.
Message center shows Red Battery, wait until if blinks.
Foot on brake, parking brake set, shift to D, press accelerator to the floor 3 times, wait for the message center to flash Chang Engine Oil, then back to Red Battery.
Press T/H, shift to 2, accelerator to the floor 3 times, message center still Red Battery.
Shift to park, key off and out for 5 seconds or more.
Start truck, idle for a while, at least until the voltmeter reads normal.
Check Confirmation.

Seven may have had the best advice, just keep trying and it MIGHT work.
More tomorrow after the test drive.

Thanks to all who offered their trucks as guinea pigs and suggested fixes. I'm treating this like anyother computer product advertised as Plug-and-Play, which as those of you with Windows 95 usually means Plug-and-PRAY!

More later...

[7mmSTW]

With things acting that goofy you might still want to try disconnecting the (-) cables just for a little while. It should come back with the same levels that were set before. When I was having troubles setting that last one it even flashed the check 4 wheel drive light in the message center when the radio screwed up. The thing works fine now.

Later

Seven

[Joe.G]

Try starting the engine after you have set 1 level and then do the same for the next level (t/h or normal). I have a 2001 and mine works perfect, but I do the sequence separately, in other words I set, start, check level, shutoff, set next level in t/h, start and check level confirmation, works everytime.