fuel in oil?

[Derek M]

Trying to determine if there's fuel in the oil. Got around 15 qts out of it on the last oil change. After the change the oil level was as the third mark from the bottom on the dipstick. 1k miles after the change the level is at the top mark on the dip stick.

http://www.getyasome.net/temp/DSC01338.JPG
Here's a drop on a coffee filter. Trying to do some basic verification that fuel is getting into the oil.

Thanks for the opinions

[DmaxMaverick]

10 qts. in, 15 qts. out....There's more than oil, in your oil. Probably fuel, and looks that way from your test.

What year is your truck? 8 new injectors could be in your future.

[Derek M]

Truck is a 2002. We're suppose to leave on vacation towing a travel trailer this Thursday. Trying to decide on a scale of 1 to 10 how bad this problem is. My fear if I take it in Monday morning and not having a truck to tow with come Thursday.

[Texasoilman44]

Get it fixed. I have same year model, and just recently had same problem. Truck only ran for another 2 days after I started smelling fuel while driving. After that, fuel was pouring out of the overflow. GM replaced all 8 injectors and all other necessary parts free of charge. If memory serves me correct, it only took 5 working days for the job to be completed, and some of that time was waiting on the new injectors to arrive.

Regards,

Kevin

[DmaxMaverick]

Good advice, Texasoilman44.

It won't fix itself. It can only get worse. Better to deal with it now, than half way through the trip. Almost nothing worse than vehicle problems to ruin a nice vacation. Especially if you have to make arrangements to get your TT towed to somewhere.

Don't be too discouraged. Problems happen, and seldom happen at a good time. At least GM will pick up the tab on this one.

[Derek M]

Took the truck in. They couldn't find anything wrong. They did a injector pressure check of some kind. Tech stated he maxed out the injectors at 160 and it held that reading. This meant to him that there is no return line leak or injector leak.

Tech stated that in all the cases where there's been an injector failure that he

[DmaxMaverick]

Your tech is full if it!

Just because you caught the problem before it became catastrophic, doesn't mean everything is OK. The crankcase can be overfilled to 15 qts and not blow out the vent, but that's about the limit. Any more and it will likely make a mess of everything, and your trailer. How did he explain the extra fluid during your oil change, or did he just call you a lier?

[jeffbentleyreich]

This is exactly what happened to me - except, I went ahead and went on the trip (LA to Seattle). I got back as far as Elk Grove and my oil pressure went down to almost nothing. Truck was toed to dealer where it now sits - oil and diesel all over the back of camper. Am I the only one who thinks Chevrolet should supply a free rental if my warrentied truck sits there for 6 weeks??? Apparently they will replace all 8 injectors but there are 6 trucks ahead of me!

[dieseldog62]

Derek,
How soon after putting oil drop on filter was picture taken ? If it was immediately , the outer ring would seem to indicate fuel in oil which will spread quickly. The tests your Tech. ran are standard procedure & his results do not indicate injector problem. However, I have heard of some return line problems which these tests will not show up.About the only way to check for leaking return lines is with flourescent dye in fuel & black light with valve covers off . Oil analysis is probably the best approach before jumping into inj.replacement as inj. supplies are short as at this time.
Hope this helps, Phil

[Derek M]

DmaxMaverick, The tech, who I do trust, seemed to think it would only be around 12 qts before fluid would start coming out of the breather. I mentioned several times that I got 15 quarts out of it. He didn't come out and call me a lair, as I know him personally. I also stated that I could have overfilled it. Actually putting in three gallons instead of two and a half. Though I think it's highly unlikely I did over fill it. I also mentioned the coffee filter test, that didn't seem to turn on any lights. Best way to put it, as politely as he could, he thought if I had a problem it would show much more in the way of signs: driveability, starting, idle.

So in summary there were no conclusive answers for the overfill or the coffee filter test.

This kinda gives me a little anxiety now. As the symptoms were mostly dismissed on the service visit and we're scheduled to leave on the trip tomorrow. Guess I could drain and refill with fresh oil before we leave thus trying to buy a little time until we get back. Unless a catastrophe happens. It's really gonna suck if we have to pack the kids and ourselves into the father-in-laws ext cab Cummins. Ohhh the ribbing itself is almost too much to fathom.

[Derek M]

dieseldog62, The pic was taken two to three minutes after the drop was placed on the coffee filter.

I also did inquire about the possibility of return line issue. Tech stated that the injectors held the 160 reading for some period, thus if there was a return line issue they wouldn't be able to sustain that reading level.

My thought is if the return line is leaking, this being after the injectors, the reading doesn't come into play as unused fuel is on it's way back to the tank.

Do any of the normal parts houses sell oil analysis kits? As I would like to take a sample before I leave.

Thanks again for everyone's input

[DmaxMaverick]

Best way to put it, as politely as he could, he thought if I had a problem it would show much more in the way of signs: driveability, starting, idle. Every case I've heard of had no indicators until oil pressure dropped and fuel/oil was spewing out.

You still have 3 qts of fluid unaccounted for, even if you did overfill it. That's a lot of oil to misplace.

Contact Greg at lubespecialist.com , or George at avlube.com . Both sell high quality kits. Definately do it as soon as you get back from your trip. If you are leaving tomorrow, no point in trying to get it done now. The results take a while to come back. If you make your trip without incident, it would be good peace of mind to confirm that your previous problem turned out to be nothing once you get back.

Be sure to take enough oil/filters and waste containers with you to change out if you have to in a pinch. Gardnerteam did that across Mexico and made it OK.

I hope it turns out to be nothing and you have an enjoyable trip. Good luck.

[jeffbentleyreich]

DmaxMaverick,
My problem occured exactly as you indicated - oil pressure dropped, fluid under the engine... Question: Do you think I've lost significant life on the engine as it was full of fuel? I believe I stopped fairly soon after the oil pressure dropped to practically nothing.

[quadrunner500]

I'll let DmaxMaverick answer for himself, but diesel fuel used to be something that was sometimes added to the crankcase of gasoline engines to flush sludge and deposits. One consequence of your problem might be a clean engine.

[DmaxMaverick]

Can't say without seeing the inside of the engine for myself.

These engines have proven to be extremely durable. With your incident on record, you shouldn't worry about it if they don't. I don't like the idea of having enough fuel in the crankcase to drop the oil pressure, but the engineers say a short run won't hurt anything.

If anything indicates in the future that it has been hurt, don't hesitate to take it in. Another option would be to damand they extend the warranty on the engine, if they are so confident that no damage did occur. I have heard of only one instance where the engine was replaced due to fuel in the crankcase. If you can get the warranty extended out to 200K, be happy with that.

[jeffbentleyreich]

Thanks for the input. Asking for a warrenty extention would be a good response to the assertion that the engine is OK.

[OC_DMAX]

Jeff B wrote: Apparently they will replace all 8 injectors but there are 6 trucks ahead of me!

I use my truck almost exclusively for vacations and weekend outings which are usually several hundred miles (or more) away from the house and am pulling either a travel trailer or boat. The continue posting of injector problems on various DMAX forums is beginning to make me worry a bit. I do not want to be stuck as Jeff B is many miles from home with a broken truck for four weeks due to injector trouble.

I cannot understand why in the world GM cannot stock these parts so they are readily available. What are these people thinking????? Is this anyway to run a business????

If they are not going to replace the defective parts on everyones truck (recall), then at least stock the parts.

[midwest]

The thing everyone needs to keep in mind is injector availability was not an issue till the special policy was released.Many customers instantly had the exact issues word for word of the letter they recieved.It's amazing how the problem was not an issue till somebody else was writing the check. The people to blame are the truck owners and dealers replacing injectors because of the special policy.They had no previous problems. Yes you do deserve injectors if they fail but many just want the new design because they can.There would be enough for the down vehicles if the other people could just wait a little for stock to come up. All back orders are to be completed and stock available sept 1. I think it is awsome GM is steping up to the plate to take care of customers.They didn't forsee (sp)
this high of number based on previous sales.This proves some injectors are not a demand situation, just that someone would like them.

Remember fuel filter service is 15k miles.How many actually do this.

[OC_DMAX]

MIDWEST - I posted this previously. Maybe it applies to the injector backlog (demand increases by a factor of 8 overnight!!). It is good to hear that the injectors will be completely stocked by Sept 1. Time will tell.


Posted previously - my take on the injector backlog:

I think GM has just blown their "good intentions" with some of their customer base. Waiting three or four weeks for replacement injectors to show up is absolutely ridiculous. When making the decision to extend the injector warranty AND replace ALL EIGHT injectors at once, GM should have first stockpiled the injectors at one central warehouse. Then just overnight FEDEX them to the needy truck. Think about it,,,, they have a supply chain set-up to replace XX number of injector failures per week (typically one injector per truck). All of a sudden, someone in corporate decides when one injector fails, they will replace all eight. Overnight, the demand goes up by a factor of eight. Looks like the warranty side of GM is not talking to the logistics side of GM or there is a general lack of planning.

Typical story of trying to do something right and shooting yourself in the foot at the same time. HOPEFULLY, someone at GM is paying attention and has an ample supply on order.


By the way, I have two fuel filters (supplemental Racor in addition to OEM Racor) that are changed at less than 10k mile intervals. This will help with the "ball seat erosion". However, this will not prevent "cracked" injector bodies from happening.

[ 08-18-2004, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: OC_DMAX ]

[DarylB]

Originally posted by DmaxMaverick:
Your tech is full if it!

...The crankcase can be overfilled to 15 qts and not blow out the vent, but that's about the limit....No necessarily true man. Had my oil changed the other day. Had 3 gal of shell 15W-40 at a friends lube shop. Told the kid to put 2 and 1/2 jugs in (10 quarts). Idiot put all 3 gallons in. 12 guarts. Drove it 60 miles home, and had a lot of blowby with only 2 extra quarts. Had to drain some of that out. Just a little FYI on overfilling the crankcase

I have a 2002 LB7
-Daryl

[Derek M]

DarylB, I told the dealer it's possible I over filled it. Though highly unlikely. 15 quarts in my situation would mean would be a quart shy of 4 gallons.

I made the trip/vacation without incident. Only thing to note is that my oil pressure gauge at idle seems to jump down the scale (2-3psi), then pop right back to it's previous position. It does this erratically. In a 15 second idle period sometimes I'll get around five to seven of these small drops. In other 15 second sampling intervals I won't see any. I remember seeing this on the previous oil change as well. For that matter my wife reminds me that I pointed out the same thing to her months ago.

I'm ordering an oil sample/test kit tonight. Hopefully I'll have some solid evidence soon.

Thanks for all the input.

[KenZ]

Since I now seem to be having the fuel in oil problem and reading some of the other post, I thought I would add some comments here.

When I crawled under my truck to change the oil, it had been raining, but it was obvious that the underside of the truck was dripping with diesel fuel. I drained the oil directly into containers from my fumoto valve. I filled a 2.5 gallon container and then a gallon container. At this point I had to fill a drain pain and then wait for more gallon jugs when I put the oil back into the engine. I got another gallon and a half jug filled. Thats 5 gallons=20 quarts! This included the oil in the filter, as I drained that into the jug as well.-- So it is possible.

And I had no smoke behind the truck. Maybe since it was raining, but definitely nothing out of the exhaust.

I took a sample and mailed it this morning to be tested.