need engine advice, but not diesel, please help!

[markm]

My prize vehicle is 2002 Chevy Dmax/allison with 14,500 trouble-free-fifth-wheel-pulling miles. My other vehicle is 2003 PT Cruiser GT Turbo with 249 miles and a defective cylinder head. It is at the dealer now awaiting a new cylinder head. The PT Cruiser tech forum is more concerned with magnetic flames and stereos than addressing serious problems, so I turn the experts for engine advice.
Bought the car with 9 miles on the odometer. Drove it home 200 miles that day. Next day notice
oil under car. Oil on dipstick was still in normal range and "check engine" light never came on. Took car to local dealer. Two days later he calls back, oil leak came from crack in cylinder head. According to service manager, probably came from the factory with defective cylinder head. No apparent damage to internal engine parts.
They will replace the cylinder head and reassemble everything.
Questions:
1. How will this affect the longterm performance of the engine, since it has been "dismantled" and reassebled?
2. What type of problems should I watch for after this amount of engine work?
Unusual request for the dieselpage forum, but I figured I could get the best advice here.
Thanks in advance,
Mark

[cbrock]

Mark, I am not an expert on the PT cruiser, nor am I a professional mechanic. However, I do have a lot of friends who are dealer mechanics and otherwise and I feel that the longevity of the engine will be the same if not better. Think about it, your engine was assembled in an assembly line at the factory. The guy(s) who assembled your motor probably did 5 or 10 that day. And guess what, the day before he probably did the same amount. And so on and so on. IMHO the dealer mechanic will pay much closer attention to detail in reinstalling the new cylinder head and checking for defects before doing so. The chances of him doing cyclinder head removal and installation on PT cruisers every single day are slim to none so he will probably take a little more time to make sure it's done right. The guy at the assembly plant is a robot (no punt intended) doing the same thing over and over and over again and probably doesn't pay too close attention to stuff like that because if it's defective after it leaves the plant, he knows it will not come back to him, it will go to the dealer who sold it.

I honestly think that it will be better than new and I would just keep your eyes open for oil leaks, smoke, or anything else during the first few hundred miles.

I bought a brand new 1996 Camaro Z28 6spd back in Dec. of '95 and after 13000 miles, the engine lost oil pressure. Well, the dealer couldn't figure it out and ended up putting another engine in it. It ran better than it did when it had 5 miles on it. I just think that the dealers take a little more time doing these things simply because they have to.

Just my $.02

[Black Dog]

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Think about it, your engine was assembled in an assembly line at the factory. The guy(s) who assembled your motor probably did 5 or 10 that day. And guess what, the day before he probably did the same amount.
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Engines are assembled on a transfer line. One person does not assemble an entire engine. One person will stand in one spot, and stuff pistons in about 500 engines a day. Automated machines do a lot of the work. A person will stand there and start all of the head bolts, and then the engine is transferred to another station where a multi head machines torques all of the bolts at once.


Oh, and I would not worry about your PT Cruiser engine. Any problem that could be caused by the technician replacing the head would surface well before your factory warrantee runs out. This type of service should not have any detrimental effect on the long term durability of the engine.

[ 02-05-2003: Message edited by: Black Dog ]</p>

[Paintdude]

No other related engine damage from cracked head on a unit-car with only 300 miles on it? Says who? New complete motor or make them give you another vehicle..JMHO!

[hoot]

I agree with paintdude on this one. With that low of miles, I'd be getting a new one, no doubt about it. Actually should be pretty easy convincing them. If not you can really let them have it and start the management ladder climb. You'll get a new one.

[Bulldogger]

Markm, If there was no oil in the anti freeze or anti-freeze in the oil more than likely there won't be any problems.My wife had a 1996 Miata 1.8l and decided she loved the car but it was to slow. I pulled the motor bored the block .120 over, reground cams ported /polished the head supercharger with 10.lbs boost etc 40,000 miles later of hard driving never a problem. Secondly performance heads are placed on mustangs, chevys etc all the time with no problems if done right. It shouldn't effect longevity if torqued down properly after 200 miles bring it back and have it re-torqued because of the expansion- contraction of the head after several heat cycles.Dave

[Paintdude]

I can not believe anyone would advise you to have them put a new head on your new car..Comon guys it is a new vehicle, even if it is a Dodge...

Ok,So have the check the deck to make sure it is straight, then do a oil analysis to see if any antifreeze is in the oil, replace ALL the head bolts,engine oil(they wont change the engine oil),Flush cooling system incase oil got into it..are they gonna swap the cam? They will be tampering with the timing belt..

Get a complete motor..or better yet another vehicle..

[RATDOC]

MARKM,
I'll answer your question 2 ways......
1) as an engine builder....there should be NO problem at all with a cylindar head replacement IF that is all you need.......IF THE SERVICE DEPT. IS BEING HONEST WITH YOU!!
2) as a consumer who workes hard for his money, I would aggree with PAINTDUDE and DEMAND that the car be either replaced OR that a special extended warrantee be issued being that it did have some miles on it and MIGHT have been abused prior to you getting it.
Tom

[markm]

Thanks all for your input.
Our first call was to the dealer about replacement of the car. The Chrylser response was that we have to give them the opportunity to repair it.
This was confirmed by the MO. Attorney General Office for Consumer Affairs. According to the MO Lemon Law: -4 unsuccessful repair attempts
-one repair attempt for a serious safety defect and defect continues
-or if the car is out of service for
more than 30 business days.
If any of these are met, the Lemon Law can be used
to pursue a new car.
Chrylser has offered a 7yr/100,000 mile maintenance contract (oil changes, etc). Attorney Generals office advised to read fine print on offer of maintenance contract so that we don't sign away future rights to pursue a new car if repair is not satisfactory.
Hope to get the car back Friday or Monday.

[Geerrhead]

Correct me if I'm wrong, But I thought a PT cruiser was a NEON with a cool body. It's not uncommon for NEON"S to leak oil from the head gasket. I have seen a few leaking before 30K miles. It should be a common repair for a Chrysler technician. If the fellow is good, he will use a bristleloc and not a roloc on the the head gasket surfaces. A proper repair should not effect engine longevity. If you a really concerned, put an extended warranty on it, down the road. :cool:

[DmaxMaverick]

This car was broken when you took delivery of it. It is not a problem that developed over time or miles. I would insist on a new car. The one they sold you was not in any condition to be sold, as they imply when you take delivery. If you had a couple thousand miles on it, or it was a more minor problem, then the repair would be OK.

Face it. You haven't had it 1 day before the problem made itself apparent. If you had noticed the problem 1 block from the dealer, would you have taken it home? Same thing, only home was further away.

This has nothing to do with the lemon law. It is about the dealer promising to sell you a car that is in NEW condition at the time of the sale. The only exception would be an exclusion in the sales contract. I would wager that where ever the car was parked at the dealer had an oil spot on the ground as well.

Get a new car. The dealer failed to deliver as promised. Don't let them tell you otherwise.

added on edit:
The dealer can do an "unwind" of the sale. This means that they undo the transaction. You then just purchase another one. The dealer will make the necessary repairs to the car and sell it to someone else as new. Happens all the time. If you financed the vehicle, contact your lender. They will tell you the same thing and work with you.

[ 02-06-2003: Message edited by: DmaxMaverick ]</p>

[markm]

Update on defective cylinder head:
Stopped by the dealer yesterday. They showed me the defect in the cyliner head which was located at the right rear where the cyliner head meets the engine block. The two did not seal properly because of the defective cylinder head. They had the new head installed on the car, but said "the timing was off" and would need the car another day.
Serive manager called me this morning. They installed the wrong cylinder head. They installed a head from a nonturbo charged engine on this car that has a turbo. The car has been started and run.
What damage is this going to cause?
Mark

[Turbine Doc]

Mark,
I'd start working my way up the management chain, you will never know what else might be wrong, you will always have that nagging pit of doubt in your stomach, is it or is it not okay. I never understand dealers on subject of warranty, it does not come out of their pocket, Ford/GM/Chry Corporate pay for it, especially for something husge as a 290 mile failure; now they don't get the $45/hr rate form Corp from they get from you.

But wrong head wrong engine, not only are the dealers covered by fact warranty for their labor, there are Federal lemon laws that are applicable I would be willing to bet, pure defect issue here, they are never going to get money from you on it.

If service mgr won't get you a complete new engine, go to the dealer owner and seek satisfaction there, if not that get the number of the Chry factory rep, work your way back up the corp ladder. If they still say they can fix it with no problem and won't give you a new engine, then ask for a special double extended WRITTEN bumper to bumper, they screwed the pooch not you.

This is called a consession in the warranty/manufacturing business, where you are not happy with what you have, and the company is hesitant to do something with little return to them, they can't sell your returned engine as new, so your play is hold fast new engine or double the warranty.

That said I'm pretty demanding when I spend that kind of money, no telling what else the rushed on it to make their numbers/production quota. If it were mine I'd go for a whole new car, a Wednesday made one, but if they are so confident that the can fix it 100%, then I think they should be willing to double the warranty, fair deal in my view costs them nothing unless the car they sold you isn't as good as they told you it was, or they screwed up the repair and it bites you long time down the road.

Why a Wednesday car, in assembly/mfg there is a little joke that like all sterotypes have an element of truth to it. Not dinging GE, my bread and butter, but a engine that has a problem in the field is dubbed a Monday or a Friday engine, where the assemblers ****ed to be back at work or still hung over did not do as well as in the middle of the week, and a Friday engine where the assemblers are in a hurry to go home. As a lark see if you can find actual date the car rolled off the assy line.

Be agressive on this one don't let them jerk you off, get a lawyer if need be and sue for his fees as well, they don't have a leg to stand on, they have already admitted fault, wrong head on wrong engine.