deisel 'burb

[sumday_a_dmax]

can anyone explain why, for the love of god, gm has decided to concede the entire large deisel powered suv market to ford? (for that matter, why has dodge concede the entire large suv market period?) would not a deisel powered 'burb dominate the large suv market? i've heard all of the "explanations" such as GM is putting the extra 6.6's in its medium duty trucks and what not. the question remains, why, after years of product development, factory tooling, and hype, cannot the largest manufacturer of automobiles build enuf engines to go around?

plus that, if you've ever driven the ford excreation you know its a terrible vehicle and it just burns me up that it remains the only deisel suv available.

[hoot]

Judging from Ford's Excursion sales, that's probably one of the main reasons. Poor demand. Big SUV also = lower towing capacity. Probably why the Crew Cab pickups seem to be the tow king of choice. How do you hook up a fifth wheel to a SUV?

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Mike DP Member #2429
2001 2500HD GMC Duramax/Allison Summit White CC/SB Loaded
Amsoil Air Filter, Straight Piped PIC (http://uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/exhaust/jvn03.jpg)
PS2K Propane, 22 Gal. LP Tank PIC (http://onramp.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/propane/bigtank1.jpg)
Allison Deep Pan, Transynd Syn ATF PIC (http://onramp.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/allison/)
SPA DG-111 Boost/EGT PIC (http://onramp.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/egt/), Nordskog Fuel Level, High Idle Switch PIC (http://onramp.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/gauges/pillar_w_idle.jpg)
VentShades, Husky Mudflaps, 255/85-R16 Dunlop Radial Rover RV's PIC (http://onramp.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/gmc2.jpg)
Kennedy Headlight Booster Kit TRUCK PICTURES CLICK HERE (http://onramp.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc)
1994 K1500 Blazer 350 Loaded, Flowmaster duals

[BMDMAX]

Put you and 3 of your favorite hunting/fishing/camping/etc. buddies in the SUV. Add your wife, instant fifth wheel.

[DSLPOWR]

The main reason they will not offer the Dmax in the suburban is because the whole floor pan and some of the cab would have to be redesigned to fit the Allison/ZF. There is hearsay that a detuned Duramax will see it's way into one in a few years but for now the biggest engine possible is the 8.1 liter big block with a 4L80E transmission. Also as GM kicks off it's brand new medium duty truck line into high gear even more duramaxes will be allocated away from the light duty line.

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2002 3500 Duramax/ZF6 speed/4x4/LS Interior/Summit white

2001 2500HD/Alli-Max/4x4/LT Interior/Extended cab/short box/Onyx Black/Graphite leather/295 BFG's/Eagle Alloys/MX7000 lightbar/Lund Deflector/DeeZee Gold series Toolbox/DeeZee Aluminum Tread Mud Guards/DeeZee Aluminum Tread Bed rail protectors/BOSS 9'snowplow/Straight piped/EGT and Boost guage (Pillar mount)

1994 Chevrolet 2500/Silverado/4x4/Blown-injected 454/9" Lift/35X12.50 BFG's/15X10 American Racings
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?username=dslpowr

[This message has been edited by DSLPOWR (edited 01-31-2002).]

[hoot]

But the question remains,

Why didn't they plan it accordingly so they could have one.

I think they left it behind because there just isn't enough demand. They have all the excuses but we know they could easily put the Dmax/Allison in one if they really wanted to. That's what they do. They build trucks according to market demand. Put the Sub body on a HD chassis and be done with it.
One hit with the sledge and wala, plenty of clearance.

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Mike DP Member #2429
2001 2500HD GMC Duramax/Allison Summit White CC/SB Loaded
Amsoil Air Filter, Straight Piped PIC (http://uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/exhaust/jvn03.jpg)
PS2K Propane, 22 Gal. LP Tank PIC (http://onramp.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/propane/bigtank1.jpg)
Allison Deep Pan, Transynd Syn ATF PIC (http://onramp.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/allison/)
SPA DG-111 Boost/EGT PIC (http://onramp.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/egt/), Nordskog Fuel Level, High Idle Switch PIC (http://onramp.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/gauges/pillar_w_idle.jpg)
VentShades, Husky Mudflaps, 255/85-R16 Dunlop Radial Rover RV's PIC (http://onramp.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/gmc2.jpg)
Kennedy Headlight Booster Kit TRUCK PICTURES CLICK HERE (http://onramp.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc)
1994 K1500 Blazer 350 Loaded, Flowmaster duals

[Colorado Kid]

I suspect that the main reason they don't offer a Diesel Suburban is they don't have too.... They already sell Duramax engines faster than Duramax Limited can build them, and they already sell every Suburban they can make, and if you've looked at Suburbans you know that they also don't offer any strippers. Both the Duramax Trucks and the Suburban/Yukon XL are already high demand, high markup vehicles. Why go to any trouble at all to produce a vehicle that would more often than not be purchased instead of one of the above? Sometimes there is no point in building something even if you can sell it.

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Waiting for...2002 GMC 2500HD CC D/ZF SB Summit/Graphite 2WD
Ordered 7/23/01 TPW 11/05/01 CANCELLED 12/13/01 (Day 153).
Orderred Again 1/3/02...Fire Red/Graphite this time.

Driving 1991 GMC Sierra 1500 V6 5sp 2WD LB 172,000 miles 22-25 MPG
This is not a fast truck!

[DSLPOWR]

I like your idea better hoot, hammer always works! http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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2002 3500 Duramax/ZF6 speed/4x4/LS Interior/Summit white

2001 2500HD/Alli-Max/4x4/LT Interior/Extended cab/short box/Onyx Black/Graphite leather/295 BFG's/Eagle Alloys/MX7000 lightbar/Lund Deflector/DeeZee Gold series Toolbox/DeeZee Aluminum Tread Mud Guards/DeeZee Aluminum Tread Bed rail protectors/BOSS 9'snowplow/Straight piped/EGT and Boost guage (Pillar mount)

1994 Chevrolet 2500/Silverado/4x4/Blown-injected 454/9" Lift/35X12.50 BFG's/15X10 American Racings
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?username=dslpowr

[Diesel Dog]

Popular topic, I've been asking the same question on the forum for a while now. Glad others are chiming in. If you search, you will see More Powers take on it in one of my posts. GM does monitor the forum, lets keep it alive!
Recently there was an interesting link on the forum which got me a little excited. Here it is (cut/paste it):
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=37532&a=a&bt=diesel

[ksss]

I have a thought on a possible reason that a D/A Sub hasn't made it into production yet. I suspect that when the D/A is as seamless and smooth as a 8.1/4L80 we'll probably see it. However, the Allison still has a HD feel to it and dare I say is not that refined yet. I personally doubt that the majority of people who would spend what 50K for a D/A Sub would be satisfied with the HD characteristics of the D/A. I think that GM would get real sick of "my 50K Sub shifts like aaaa Heavy Duty pickup". Personally I am happy with the way the combo works even with some of the glitches, but I drive a 3500.

[Luis]

I posted on this a while back! Yes,,Lets keep it alive. The people who would buy a D/A Burb are the same ones who need more room for the family (familys are larger now, not 4.5 per house hold) and tow TT or car trailers. Not every one tows a fifth wheel. This D/A Burb would take the market. I love my C/C D/A but I'll be the first to order a D/A Burb or conversion van!! Just think of all the possibilities when it comes to functionability! Come on GM you can do it or as the ad says, "JUST DO IT". And if they do it I'm not selling my CC D/A; Thats Mine.
Some people are brand loyal and now we (GM) fans have something with the D/A, but in a couple of years when we plan on a westward trip I'm replacing the wifes mini van with a diesel, so if the Burb is not there I'll consider an Excursion. Don't want to but I need the room. GM get out those hammers and start pounding. As for the people complaining about the D/A running like a HD well they can order a gasser.
Whoooooo! Feels good to get that off my chest! :D

[WannaDieselSub]

This subject has been quiet for awhile so I thought I'd give it a nudge. The most popular rumor for a DMax Suburban was a detuned Duramax mated to a 4L80E ( or the newer, slighter higher rated 4L85E) to show up in '03. Well the '03 trucks are starting to show up and still no mention of a DMax Sub. Anyone heard anything to confirm/deny this rumor?

Another rumor suggested perhaps a HD Suburban was in the works based on the HD truck chassis and drivetrain.

Oh well, the folks like me who have a family of six and tow a travel trailer can still wish....

[bora]

I don't know about a Diesel Suburban
but VW SUV is coming with a V10 TDI engine.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Bora,

I am a VW owner as well and since I have the DMAX, the wife is itching for a new SUV. The VW you speak of is due to hit the USA in about a year, or so the dealer says.

I saw the link on vwvortex.com web page. I think the rating is comparable to the Dmax's.

HEY AARON AT EDGE.......DON'T WAIT TOO LONG TO "JUICE" THOSE VW'S.

WAY TO GO BORA!!!!

GMC :D

[Lawnboy]

I've voiced my opinion on this many times before.

GM is putting the wagon before the horse....again!

Way more than 1/2 of the '93-'99 K-2500 Suburbans that I see driving about are of the diesel variety. Why...Because small block Burbans are almost dangerous, and the big blocks were the sole reason for the 42 gal tank! They get an average of single digit MPG! Then with the 6.5's you instantly get high teens and almost as much grunt as a Vortec Big block.

Suburbans have been a travel trailer staple since the 70's. High tow ratings, high power, lots of INTERIOR storage for people and stuff. Not all big trailers are 5th wheel or gooseneck!

I toured The DMAX ltd. plant during the rendezvous and was quite inpressed. BUT>...blaming model preference of an engine based on engine supply is just POOR business decision in a nutshell. Its just not a good enough excuse for me.

Too many times BIG business gets too BIG and de sensetizes itself to little requests like ours.

[Andy Chesek]

I have to back up Lawnboy with the reason he chimed in on. My dad has a big block Suburban and has always complained about the terrible gas mileage. On the other hand he has been completely turned off by diesels, for their smell and noise... that is until he read an article in the Sunday paper a few weeks back about a GMC Sierra 2500HD with the D/A. He just about lost his cookies when he read the statement that the Duramax produces 520 lb-ft torque @ 1800rpm. Combine that with the Allison's built-in braking capabilities, and he was liking what he read.

Great low-end grunt, transmission braking, and excellent gas mileage... reasons to make a D/A Suburban.

Even the folks over at http://www.dieselsuburbans.com are claiming 6.5L TD Suburbans are going up in resale value due to high demand. GM should get with it, they're prolly leaving more people out in the cold than they think. I believe diesel is becoming more attractive to Joe "I drive a big SUV" Consumer.

[Chris N5CWM]

I get 12 MPG with the 496, 4L85E & 4.10 gearing.
Not too bad, compared to the 454 2500 Suburbans
from just a few years ago. My neighbor had a new
2500HD crew cab short bed 4x2, with the 496 and
Allison, 3.73's and he only managed 10-11 MPG, and
that was commuting to work on the highway! :eek:
He traded it for a Yukon 4x4 with the 5.3 and gets
a little better, maybe 16 MPG.

I am trying to be patient, waiting for GM to start
selling Duramax equipped Suburbans/Yukon XL's but
I'm not gonna hold my breath!

Also been waiting for the Australian "Holden" brand
to be brought to the US. Seems Pontiac is going to
be the first to get one, in "GTO" badging. These
cars are LS-1 V8 powered, 6 speed manual or 4 spd
auto, Rear Wheel drive. Much better IMHO for use
as a NASCAR spec than the Front Wheel drive V6
Impala. :D

[midwestdmax29]

You have to wonder why a $43,000 quadrasteer pickup makes more sense than a maxed burb. The only reason Ford made the Excursion was to try to out-do GM. Strange, but I'm not seeing any trade-in Suburbans on Ford lots. Don't worry about the Excursion being a flop, if GM they builds it, it'll sell.

[FightinTXag]

The 8.1 is consistent in mileage. I had one with the Allison in a 2wd ext cab short bed with 4.11s. I could drive the wheels off of it around town doing burnouts and giving Camaro SSes a run for their money and I would get 9. I could set the cruise at 60 and drive home to Dallas and I never saw better than 11.5.

[NutNbutGMC]

^...Buy a Ford..... Simple enough.

[Luis]

Thanks for returning to this issue! GM is missing the boat. As mentioned look at the old burbs; they are still used for towing (in addition to D/A's) because they have more passenger room than a crew cab. I just returned from a 2100 mile camping trip with the family pulling my travel trailer. The D/A did great. Average mpg was 11.5 towing and 20.4 empty. This was from Washington DC area to Niagra Falls NY to Bar Harbor Maine and back home to the DC area. Truck worked great but the kids were cramped even with the C/C.

I spoke with a friend who went to a GM truck demo just for dealers. He said GM had a proto type burb w/the duramax and thinks it had the allison. Won't be out till 05. I may not be able to wait if I go out west next year. May have to look at the VW or F---. (I'll keep my truck ;) )

GM if your lurking...take a look at the camping industry and the direction its heading. This is a fast growing market and people are spending money, BIG MONEY for room & comfort, economy, durability, towing capability and most of all SAFETY. Hummmm...The D/A comination offers all the above. Come on GM you can do it. Now...LETS GET TO WORK! :D

[Colorado Kid]

Judging by the current power project it wouldn't be all that difficult (I did not say inexpensive) to put a D-max 6600 into the last generation Suburban, if you're desperate.

I'll keep waiting and hoping. Sure would like to replace the '99 Honda Odyssey with a Diesel Suburban.

[Breck]

FWIW: I saw a new 2500 suburban memorial day with the Durmax tag above the 2500. The vehicle had "manufacture" plates on it and was cruising along I-69 just west of Lansing, MI. It appeared to have the same rear end as the 6.0 engines have...not the one on the D/A's and 8.1's.

[hoot]

Ford isn't sitting idle. They already have the diesel Excursion and putting a 4.5L version of the new PSD in the F150, most likely for the 05 model year. They redesigned the F-150 from what info I have, it will look like a cross between the Tonka and the current SuperDuty with a "more aggressive intimidating look".

[Burner]

I think I have something to add here.
I have a CC MAX and a 2001 GMC Yukon XL with the 8.1 hooked to a "4L85E" transmission, 4:10 rear. I agree that having a MAX in the Burb would be nice. However, my wife drives the burb. I worry about her going to "various" places to get fuel and the fact that she will sometimes need to think her way somewhere if she needs fuel. If she were to put "fuel" in it, say GASOLINE, I would ****! She would not be real hip on letting the thing warm up, let alone COOL OFF. She drives anywhere from 12 to 24k a year. That just does not necesitate the need for the Diesel. The Burb will pull anything the MAX will, off the hitch. The 8.1 we have seems to be a good motor. It does not burn oil and gets 10 to 13 MPG around town. On the last two trips to Miami FL our MPG average was 13.9 going down. I might mention that there were 4 of us on one trip and five the next. On our return trips we were pulling a loaded trailer and avg about 11.5 MPG. We do not drive slow, about 70 or 80 MPH. On a return trip she almost got a ticket, the officer let her go because she was only going 7 MPH "over" the speed limmit. I think it's because she is an ANGEL :D . I would really like to have a Diesel Burb but I don't think that there is a large enough market for them, yet. Granted that the "industry" market is there, they will most likely not purchase a Diesel. A large business can write-off the cost of a diesel but fuel is also a write-off. Why buy a diesel that cost 4k more, has more maintinece and needs "speical" care when you can buy a gasserrr that is bullet prof? On the other side, the smaller businesses would rather have the gaserrrrr because "It's cheaper" or so they think. One thing they do know is that anyone can work on the gasser but it will take a speical shop to fix the diesel.

I just thought I'd add my .02 worth :rolleyes:

----- BMDMAX, you had me rolling with that statement. tongue.gif :D tongue.gif :D

Rich

[FirstDiesel]

We had a 93 burban with the 5.7 engine. NEVER got more than 13 MPG no matter what. Got less than 11 when towing our single car trailer. We loved the rig but the economy and the lack of mileage and specifically the lack of towing power just wasn't cutting it. We decided to go with a big trailer. The problem became what to tow with. We decided on the CC with a Duramax/Allison. So far haven't towed the big trailer yet but with the little one I had to keep reminding myself it was back there.

Will we miss the burban?? You betcha. Already do. Ideally I would have loved a Duramax Burban but had to choose and went over to the darkside. smile.gif

[ 07-21-2002: Message edited by: FirstDiesel ]</p>

[stretch]

There's the answer, buy a crew cab and put a color matched no rise cap on it and voila !!! instant "sort-of" Suburban - seats 6 ,in ls trim, Dmax, Allison, HD suspension and tons of storage.

In my neck of the woods, I rarely see a diesel Excursion. Most of the people that drive the large suv's are housewives that can barely see over the steering wheel and don't have a clue how to park in a parking space, forget parallel parking !! 99% are small-block equipped for which I am grateful, I can't imagine a Juiced up Dmax equipped Suburban in the hands of the incompetants I see daily.

[FirstDiesel]

Stretch

That's what we did. Body color match flat top cap. We seat only 5 vs. the 8 in the Suburban. And sometimes we miss the extra seats. All the other vehicles in the fleet are 2 seaters!!

[SledZep]

I want one too, before they put emissions on them!
One thing that nobody mentioned is that if they put a depowered Duramax with the other tranny under the Suburban it probably will not then be rated for the same towing capacity. This will force heavy towers back to the 8.1/Allison So GM will have wasted cash...
If they instead offer a smaller lighter Duramax (which I believe is rumored) to compliment their 1500 series Suburbans it might make more sense. Fair towing capacity with very good mileage would be a great selling point especialy since they have already tamed the noise and most of the smell.
Also, give those soccer moms some credit. They deal with real traffic (mall) all the time in their SUV's of all sizes. Once they understand that poor fueling practices/choices will cut into their shoe budget they will be telling you where the lowest price freshest fuel is. Plus we should be able to get real fuel tanks under them....

[mcmahonjr]

I have a 99 6.5 burb and my wife drives it all the time. She konws that it has to warm up in the winter and cool down in the summer. She also know what fuel to us as well as to add the fuel treatment. When they build the new DMax burb people will buy them. Not because they have a big trailer or have a big family. But they will buy for the same reason so many people bought the pickups with the D/A because it is a status symbol. If you build it they will buy it. You have to keep up the Jones, so to say.