View Full Version : Who Has Had Fuel System Problems/Failures?
Rebel_Horseman
05-20-2003, 17:28
Who all has had fuel system probelms with their trucks? I'm trying to get a feel for the problems associated with our fuel system.
I have 68,000 miles on my truck and I have to get my injectors replaced. My room mate's '02 has 27,000 and he just got 3 injectors replaced as well as his high pressure pump.
If there are so many trucks experiencing injector failure, pump failure, etc. wouldn't it be in GM's best interest to find a permanent fix?
Reb [><]
Injection pump replaced on 2002 with 13000 miles.
Wont Goof Again
05-20-2003, 17:55
Yep. New injector: #8 with about 9000 miles on a 2002 Silverado CC LB. Now up to 17000 miles and everything OK (knock on wood).
Paul
chuntag95
05-20-2003, 17:59
2 Injectors replaced at 22,000 miles.
How do you tell that the injectors are in need of replacing?
Dan
Rebel_Horseman
05-20-2003, 19:10
My symptoms were rough idle, low power, and the whole underside and tailgate of my truck was coated with diesel fuel and oil.
Reb [><]
Cowboy_120
05-22-2003, 19:13
5 injectors, 4 fuel lines going into the injectors. AT allround 96,000-98,000kms. I am desperately trying to convince GM to replace the rest since it seems as soon as I tow a trailer, another one blows. Either that, or I want a new engine all together.
This topic would be useful for anyone trying to get GM to do something about the fuel systems. I will wait a while for this to fill up, then I am going to print it off and mail it to GM to prove that a lot of people are having problems, if thats okay with everyone?
Let me know if anybody doesnt want their post sent to GM, and I will omit it.
Rebel_Horseman
05-22-2003, 23:54
By all means send mine Cowboy. Personally I don't think GM cares about customer satisfaction (see my rant under the "Smokin'...No Really" thread) or building a quality product. I'm to the point that I'm going to the other team. Why should we have to spend all this money on additional filtration...shouldn't the factory system be adequate? If not, wouldn't it seem logical to fix the problem and make your customer's happy?
Reb [><]
Maverick
05-23-2003, 00:09
Replaced injector #1 at 95,000 miles.
Cowboy_120
05-23-2003, 05:37
Ya Rebel, I certainly agree with you. I can see adding an extra system if you are trying to make your truck run past 500K or you are doing some high performance with it, but for regular use, the system should be adequate.
I also heard that GM had sent out a bulliten essentially saying that we are now allowed to use additives in our gas. Has GM finally figured something out?
I would move to a Dodge if I could get out of my lease without paying huge penalties. Really though, I have been happy with my truck except for the fuel system, and I would be happy if they just decided to change that part out for me.
Oh well, back to the battle for me.
My Racor post OEM 2 micron setup cost me less than $150.
Now lets take a look at the accessories in our signatures and see what is worth more towards piece of mind. An extra filter or nerf bars etc. We spend thousands making it look better. Didn't GM make it look nice enough or do the add ons help us get to 500,000 miles looking better? ;) tongue.gif
Reb,
Add mine to your list to send to GM. At 115,000 miles, blue smoke at idle. Replaced injector pump and PCM. Did not solve problem. Replaced 7 of 8 injectors with parts out of a warranty engine, problem solved. Dealer could not diagnose problem correctly. Cost - 2 weeks, $3000 negotiated settlement? 168,000, miles same problem. As I write this, it is at the dealer diagnosed with a faulty pressure regulator module. Module has been replaced, it now shows injector problems. Dealer wants to replace all the injectors. I am meeting with the dealer this morning to look over the diagnostics & negotiate. Current cost - 5 days, $1200. # 1 problem is the fuel system, but # 2 is the inability to diagnose correctly. If it doesn't cost money, it costs time.
This is a great truck. We need support from a manufacturer that wants it to be great!
Tony V,
What did they do with the 7 old injectors from the first replacement?
Rebel_Horseman
05-23-2003, 10:54
Hoot you do make a valid point. But, I bought my truck used so I didn't buy the nerf bars...they were alreay there. :D It's just extremely frustrating dealing with a dealership that does not have anyone competent in our trucks and how to diagnose them, much less perform repairs on them. Then that is compounded by GM's lack of interest in satisfying the consumer and providing support to the people who ultimately pay their bills, you and me. Cowboy & Tony, I'm in the same boat as ya'll. It's been a week and that is as much as I can give them. Time is money. I'm going to try to sell mine once I get moved if I can sell it for a reasonable price that won't leave me in a bind financially. If I can do that then I'm probably going to buy a Dodge. At least that way I can work on the truck myself and in the off chance an injector goes bad then I only have to fork out about $100 a piece +/-.
Reb [><]
Rebel_Horseman,
A new Dodge? Guess what. The new Cummins uses the Bosch HPCR system.
Cowboy_120
05-23-2003, 12:17
Hoot, I understand your point, but I still think that I should not have to go adding a filter just because GM didnt make their fuel system reliable enough.
Hopefully, since the Dodge has just started using the Bosch system, that they have figured out the bugs in it. There doesnt seem to be too many guys with 02 or 03 duramax's that are having problems, so maybe GM has already figured out the problem. I am just asking them to take care of those of us with problems.
Byt he way, I got the truck back, and it turns out that the mechanic didnt seat the fuel line properly, so it had to be taken off and remounted to prevent the leaking. how hard is it to screw a nut on?
DIESEL/VETTE
05-23-2003, 12:41
Maybe it would be a good idea if both you cowboys did sell your D/A, and then buy dodges. then you would find out that GM has built us a truck that is damn near perfect. nothing man made is perfect. All the way around are trucks are much more superior than the other two. I love my truck, good or bad i will keep it. Its not that rosy on the other side of the fence. Don't mean to affend anyone, but that's my 2 cents. PICK YOUR DEALER CARFULLY.
teporter
05-23-2003, 12:53
Had #5 injector replaced at 70K, had injection pump replaced at 85K, had #4 injector replaced at 89K, had MAP sensor replaced at 91K. I'm getting very nervous about this engine costing me thousands of dollars to keep running. I wish I could get a cummins put in this truck then it would be the "perfect truck".
Rebel_Horseman
05-23-2003, 13:19
Cowboy, you do make a good point. It seems like there are more '01's with these problems than later model years. As far as Chevy being the perfect truck? Not hardly. I promise that a motor like the Cummins with the low end grunt and PROVEN reliability will out pull and out last a high-revving "new" motor such as the Duramax. I know I've never seen an International with a Duramax or Isuzu diesel in it, but I've seen a Cummins in every heavy duty lineup I've seen. I will say thins, you go to any rodeo or horse show and you will see way more Fords and Dodges than Chevys. Why? They are proven and they are made to tow. I can promise that my truck with the Juice on 2 tows as good as my girlfriend's '96 F350 PSD running stock. Like teporter said, "I wish I could get a cummins put in this truck then it would be the 'perfect truck'."
I started this forum to get a feel for how serious the problem is with these truck's fuel systems, not to debate the quality of the trucks or GM's customer service.
As a side note, I'm now waiting on replacement fuel lines for my truck. Apparently they just found that all the rigid steel lines are "corroded" inside and they are replacing all of them. Looks like before this whole ordeal is over I'm going to have a whole new fuel system!
Reb [><]
[ 05-23-2003: Message edited by: Rebel_Horseman ]</p>
Cummins also picked up a trait from old Harleys- marking their territory... :rolleyes:
As I said in another post re fuel system problems, it seems the old Morton Salt saying often applies: "When it rains it pours" I think that in many cases, GM would be better off to replace a full bank of injectors once the cover is opened...
Kennedy,
They just exchanged the injectors with the warranty engine and sent it back to GM. I am very unknowledgeable about my this engine. Your comments and this forum have helped a great deal. Any additional help you or any one out there can give would be greatly appreciated. Can you give me an opinion on my computer readouts? 1st readout was fuel rail pressure 64.9 MPa with a desired pressure of 42.0 MPa. injector commands were .29ms -.31ms through all 8, balancing rate was 0.0 mm3 on all 8. trouble code was P0089. They replaced the fuel pressure regulator module and did a 2nd diagnostic. result was: Fuel rail pressure of 39.1MPa with a desired pressure of 40.0. injector commands and balancing rates were:
injector 1 .08 ms, -3.4 mm3
# 3 .23 ms, -2.5 mm3
# 5 .41 ms, 2.9 mm3
# 7 .43 ms, 4.0 mm3
# 2 .26 ms, -1.8 mm3
# 4 .40 ms, 2.7 mm3
# 6 .31 ms, -0.5 mm3
# 8 .29 ms, -1.2 mm3
I hope this info helps more than just me. Thanks in advance
Cowboy_120
05-23-2003, 17:50
okay, first of all:
diesel/vette: I never said that these trucks were terrible. I love my truck, but it does have problems that I am working through. I ordered my truck 6 months ahead of time and drove a ford explorer just so I could get it, so its not like I am just about to drop it for another. I have owned a 98 dodge 3500 V10 that I liked too, and had it on a 3 year lease. when the lease ended, i wanted a diesel and decided to go with GM since they were the first to come out with the quiet duramax. The interior on these trucks is one of their main selling points as well.
I think that when you go out and pay $60,000 on a new truck, be it ford, dogde or GM, they are all basically the same. unfortunately each one has its own faults. I think the major problem with GM right now is their customer service to this point. Obviously, for every one guy on this board that is having fuel related problems, there is probably 10 more out there not on the board that is having the same thing. I think it is most frustrating that GM has not said a word about it, or that you have to basically have a temper-tantrum to get anything done.
So: we are not here to compare brands, but we are just trying to find people with similar problems and are collectivly trying to save ourselves from thousands of dolars worth of work down the road.
Rebel: my problem with my metal fuel lines was also rust. I dont understand why they would be rusting unless we had a lot of water in the fuel? I am not too sure of the reason.
Sorry for the long post, I am just trying to prevent this topic from going off base.
If you dont want to hear about our fuel problems, dont click on the link.
Rebel_Horseman
05-23-2003, 18:22
"If you dont want to hear about our fuel problems, dont click on the link."
Ditto that. I too am extremely unhappy with GM's customer service and the fact that I have invested money in a truck that may or may not have serious and terminal fuel system problems. That fact coupled with GM's attitude towards my situation has given me a serious case of the reds.
I went by the dealer and talked to the service manager. Finally I get some straight answers! Although absolutely no work has been done today, at least they know (or think they do) what is needed to fix the truck. They removed the head and noticed that the fuel line to one of the injectors has been corroded off at the end where it attached to the injector. This corrosioon was causing fuel to spew into the valve system and therefore into the engine. They are replacing all the fuel lines and all the injectors as soon as the new lines get in.
Question: What, if any, side affects can happen becasue raw diesel fuel was allowed to coat the valves, lifters, etc under the valve cover? There is no telling how long this line(s) has been spewing adn I'm worried now about premature wear on components if the fuel washed the oil off the parts? Should I bring this issue up to the service manager?
Reb [><]
I've been watching both these fuel system threads and both sides of the fence have valid info ...
First off the point of adding additional filtering has been done by all three diesels in the aftermarket world ... The point is not Ford Dodge or GM is expecting you to purchase one truck to last a life time or they certainly wouldn't sell many trucks now would they ?? I think we demand a better running truck and we shall chose how long we would like to keep it ... Did GM sell us short ?? I don't believe so .. For every troubled unit there are probably 20 units or better that are having no issues ... This is why GM has poor customer service.... I to had a run in with GM lack of customer service and was very disappointed in the response ... This was when I was buying my truck not a warranty claim ...My dealer resolved the issue ... Hoping the fence to brand x or y will have the same horror stores whether you chose to believe it or not ... You may just be one of the happy 20 in the beginning.... The dealer as mentioned is your key to success in getting your problem solved not some listener at the 1,800 number ... My opinion is your dissatisfaction should be pointed at the service department not the product ... So my argument would be with them and let them know that if this continues you have lost my BUSINESS... I know it must suck to have to deal with these issues but the service department is the problem ... Best of luck guys ...
Mac smile.gif
Cowboy_120
05-23-2003, 20:33
well said mackin
I agree with you Mackin, on virtually everything However, when the dealer is unable to diagnose the problem correctly, who's responsibe?. I checked with two other dealers, all are afraid to make any commitments as to what's wrong. The universal approach seems to be "let's change something and if it doesn't work we'll change something else". I'm stuck paying for all the "changes" whether I need them or not. GM customer service supports the dealer. Who trains the Dealer techs? I am willing to pay for good service, but I am not getting it. Hence, the thread from above listing some of the computer readout. I'm hoping some of you can educate me.
Took my '02 in at 11,500 miles for the lopey idle (my lope was very slight and intermittent). The ECM flash fixed mine. They did check it for everything--injectors, pump, regulator and mine was fine.
Blaine
Bulldogger
05-26-2003, 10:47
Not to offend anyone, but I feel if my truck was having problems and out of the warranty period the dealer is the last place I would take it. I would look for a diesel shop or truck shop like ATS that specilizes in diesel repair and mods. Dave
Now you would think after all the problem with the 6.5's they would have good reliable pumps.Kind of makes me wounder what they are doing when they test these trucks??
Bulldogger,
No offense taken. Who do you recommend in Northern California? I've checked with several diesel shops, even the Isuzu truck dealer. None are expereinced, nor do they have the proper test equipment. This is tree hugger country, a veritable cold bed of fossil fuel performance, let alone diesels! I'm open to any suggestions.
Reb, give me a hol'er---> Twomuchplay@aol.com
Burner-----> :D
Now my truck has been in the shop the past four days waiting on a new fuel level float. (not sure of the correct part name) I took it in because the fuel guage would go crazy. It would go from F to E then back to F in seconds. It was obviously not indicating the correct fuel level based on miles driven after fill-up.
They said it was not under warranty because it was an electrical part, not part of the fuel system. Part listed at $398.00 plus labor. (Truck has 43,000 miles) Does this sound right about not being covered by warranty?
Anyone else have this problem or know what would cause this problem? :confused:
Rebel_Horseman
06-21-2003, 11:22
It's been a while since I've been here. Here's what happened to my truck.
The dealer replaced all 8 injectors as directed by GM. When they removed the valve covers they discovered 1 line was completely rusted off where it joined with the injector, so they also replaced all of these lines. They called and said the truck was fixed so my dad went to pick up the truck. When he went to put fuel in it (because the tank of fuel that it had when it went in was now gone somehow) it was still spewing diesel all over the place. He brought it back and they then replaced the HP pump. This stopped the leak more or less buit I was still getting some discharge even after 500 miles of highway driving (I moved during this ordeal and my folks brought the truck up to me). I don't feel liek it was fixed properly. Like Tony V said, they went to replacing stuff in the hopes that it would fix the problem instead of fixing exactly what was wrong. Fortunately this was under warranty. I think the dealer did what they could because they were directed by GM to replace each item. I think the problem is with GM corporate.
As a result, I sold my truck a few days ago and bought me a Mustang GT. I don't have a need for a truck right now due to my recent move, so I wanted something sporty and fun to drive for a year or so. Now I just need to figure out where to install my gooseneck ball. ;) tongue.gif
Reb [><]
P.S. If anyone is looking for a 6 month old Juice 4.61, mine is for sale.
Rebel,
Selling the truck will definitely solve the problem, but I need a truck. The followup to my situation was replacement of 4 injectors, 1, 3, 5, & 8 and fuel regulator module. Over the last 168,000 miles, the dealer has taken 5 weeks, replaced 12 injectors, fuel reg module, ecm, injector pump, & misc fuel lines, gaskets, oil etc. All of this at a cost of over $7700. I hope GM is listening because I will be repeating this story many times over when people ask me how I like the Duramax, the dealer and the service!
What is really sad is you guys who have to pay out of pocket after spending so much for the truck initially.
GM should extend the warranty on the injection system.
cmtndmax
06-21-2003, 23:09
They can extend the warranty. They did for the 6.5 to 120,000 miles. GM hasn't fully recovered from their previous diesel mistakes. Not making things right would be a bad mistake on their part. (after reading dieselstop ford appears to be having a good number of problems. Maybe they should have made a 5.7 instead of 6.0)
Rebel Horseman email me about juice cmtndmax@yahoo.com
Captain Mal
06-22-2003, 09:10
Rebel,
A Ford Mustang? Now that's a company with real awful customer relations. I needed 2 Ford engines in my last truck and the neighbor used 6 clutches. Never was FORD cooperative.
My Duramax has needed 3 injectors and a fuel line connection in 140,000 miles. It has been quite expensive and I have lost confidence in the fuel system. Been fishing the last two weeks and it has run good in its' parking space. I go back on the road Wednesday. Oh no???
Darn dealer never got back to me about their contacts with GM Tech Assistance. This looks like the second time nothing was done after promising some dialogue and contact. GM's fault or the dealer? Both lie and blame it on the other one.
Neighbor has a Generation III Cummins with 40,000 miles on it. No trouble with the Bosch injecton system and better fuel mileage than the Duramax. I iquired about trading mine for the Dodge - Their best deal was only $16K against retail.
Call me stuck and waiting for the next breakdown.
Rebel_Horseman
06-27-2003, 23:10
Yeah Captain Mal, I know it's a huge jump. I wanted something fun to drive that had a warranty and I was not going to go back to GM until my case of the reds goes away, so I bought what I bought. It's fun, it's new, and it has a warranty so if something breaks it's fixed. In a year, when I build me a barn, then I'm going to buy another diesel. Haven't decided whether to go with a Ford or a Dodge, but I'm going to wait to see how they are holding up in a year to make a final decision.
Reb [><]
flapjack
06-29-2003, 13:40
Hi, I have a 2002 Silverado 3500 with 175K miles on it. Its in the shop replacing the whole fuel system. First injector went out @ 95K. Chevrolet fixed for $100 deductible. At 129K lost two more injectors. Chev. paid for parts. I paid labor. Went 4 miles lost 4th:-(. At 150K it started smoking. They said a new pressure regulator would fix it. Now it will need a new fuel pump. I told them to replace it all including injectors. I bought this truck to work with. I thought a $14K engine would go 300K miles easy. Oh well. Thanks Chevrolet. The truck is 16 months old. Lemon.
Black95TD
07-01-2003, 19:59
Hi to all you Duramaxers. I'm cruising this site trying to plan for replacing my 95 6.5 TD Chevy. Also visited the Dieselstop site and heard all about the Ford "cacklers" and all their troubles with their injectors. Haven't heard so much bad about the Cummins, just a lot of problems with the rest of the truck. Baginning to think the fuel just doesn't lubricate thngs as well as the old high sulphur stuff. Since I've had two replacement injector pumps, I started using Stanadyne's Lubricity formula with every tank. It contains a highly concentrated lubricant and some detergent to keep things clean. I read somewhere that a good percentage of diesel fuel sold these days doesn't meet the standards for lubrication. After a couple of bad loads of fuel, I now buy only from a local reputable source that is advertised as premium. Sounds like everyone is going after extra filters thinking particles are causing the problems. Whats the consensus among Duramax owners on fuel additives for more lubrication? I love my diesel but I'n not sure what I'll replace it with! Good luck!
GARY PAGE
07-01-2003, 21:34
Man, I guess I will keep my 6.5 I thought the DMAX was something else.
Alli-max
07-01-2003, 21:57
1 bad injector here. Add me to the list.... :mad:
azgearpro
07-11-2003, 09:51
WOW! sorry to hear about all those problems with your trucks. That is hard to chew especially when you spend so much money on your rigs. I use to own a 6.2, and 6.5. With both all I had was problems either injectors,glow plugs, or pumps. Does the dmax use glow plugs? I hope not they eventially become a pain. The cummins grid heater is a much better system.
Would a aftermarket injector help you any, I know Diesel Dynamics make a good injector for your trucks? Diesel Dynamics (http://www.dieseldynamics.com)
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