Smokin'!!.... no, really....

[Alli-max]

Sitting at idle for a while today, I noticed some blue smoke coming out. the color of a gasser when it is burning oil. But, when I take off, it seams to clear up a bit. Back at idle, sitting for 1-2 minutes, it starts again.... Comments?

[Maverick]

My exact symtom of an injector failure. Mine was the same way. Let it idle for awhile then shut if off. Pull the plow plugs and look for a wet one. This will be the bad injector.

[Alli-max]

:rolleyes:
SWEEEEET. Just what i need right now....

[Captain Mal]

Ali-Max,

My injector failures have showed two symptoms. The first two failures were 'blue smoke at idle'. The truck ran fine above idle but there was hell to pay in traffic jams and stop lights.

The most recent failure was different. Fuel pressure dropped under load and all goes into default mode. Idle showed just a trace of smoke if you convinced yourself it should be smoking.

All the failures ocurred out of warranty and the replacement costs were $883, $935 and I'm now waiting for my third bill. Also paid $150 to have a leaky injector compression fitting fixed. All repairs were in different parts of the country with different shops.

[Oongawah]

Good tip Maverick,

Captain Mal, How many miles on your rig?

[Captain Mal]

Oongawah,

Right around 130,000 miles. Very few miles the last two months as I have been going through repeated breakdowns. My confidence in the fuel system is understandibly low.

I hear a song...'should I stay or should I go'?
This truck is less than two years old and kaput. Should I buy another Duramax, keep this mess or go to something else? Kinda sad as the truck literelly looks brand new and all other components of the truck have given exemplary performance and reliability. Bosch is botched.

[truck_n]

Captain Mal
I am with you with the disappointment. I too have a truck that looks new and runs great, BUT, it sounds like the same problems I have. Smoking, embarassingly, at idle at 115,000 miles and now again at 168,000
The first time it was injectors, They could not tell me which one, they replaced them all with ones out of an warranty engine replacement. As I write this, my truck is at the dealer. The computer says the fuel pressure regulator module is bad. What have they replaced on your truck each time? How was it diagnosed? My problems have been with the inability to diagnose the problem as well as not being able to get GM involved in an obvious issue. As I view it, our high milege vehicles are on the leading edge of the problems and failures.
Tony
truck_n@msn.com

[Captain Mal]

Tony,

Just left the Kennedy Diesel site. His fuel filter system looks like it would tax my instellation abilities but should help if, and that's the issue, if I can install and maintain it.

Diagnosis on the earlier injector failures was straightforeward with all the smoke at idle. The Tech 2 clearly showed the bad injector.

The leaking fuel compression fitting showed a fuel pressure loss on the Tech 2. Examination confirmed theexternal physical loss of fuel.

This latest injector problem, still unresolved as I sit here, showed a loss of fuel pressure on the entire bank of even-numbered cylinders. Then all the return lines to the fuel tank had to be disconected and both sides of the engine had their fuel return volumes measured. The even numbered side (drivers) had too great a return.

Now all the injectors were removed on that side. I was not there and did not witness this as I got a ride home where I sit here for days. The service manager told me they could 'see' that #2 was the problem.

I have seen the injectors before. Both the good and bad ones looked the same to my untrained eye. Sure hope this dealer knows what they are doing but I suspect they are 'winging it' like the other people I had work on this problem area.

Tony, you raise an interesting question that I'm currently wrestling with. It's going to break down again. There will still be 5 more original injectors, the pump and the regulator valve in there waiting to go. A total replacement of all that would probably delay more breakdowns but the time, finding someone to do it and the cost of $6,000 or more is somewhat daunting.

Even if I somehow get the Kennedy dual filter system installed and figure out how to prime, replace and service both filters, it's probably too late to minimize more breakdowns.

Whatever I decide will be what it is. Satchel Paige, "never look back, somethin' could be gainin' on you".

I am now guilty of dominating this topic. Sorry. E-mail me for more bs on this issue. Hopefully, I'll be on the road to LA tomorrow but who knows.

captainmal@relymail.com

[Rebel_Horseman]

I too am in the same boat as both of you, Captain Mal & Tony V. My truck is getting it's injectors replaced and I have only 68,000 on it. That is too low miles to be having fuel system failure. I don't even want to think of what's going to happen once I get to 100,000. Captain Mal,you mentioned that to replace all the original fuel injectors, and all the otehr fuel pumps, etc, might cost in the neighborhood of $6,000. Thinking about that figure made me realise that you could buy a whole new diesel motor for that price. I too have the same gut feeling that this thing is going to break down again. Obviously there is an issue with our fuel system, but GM will not step up to the plate and fix it for good. My room mate has 27,000 on his '02 and he's had injectors and his HP fuel pump replaced. The dealer he went to actually told him that "they have been having a lot of problems with these truck's fuel systems between 60 & 70K miles." GM knows there's a problem. I've just about lost all faith in the overall quality of these new generation trucks. I'm seriously considering going with Brand F in the not so distant future. Maybe, if I keep my truck and the motor goes east, I'll pull the Isuzu and replace it with a Cummins and be done with it.

Reb [><]

[a64pilot]

Reb,
Don't replace it with an 03 Cummins, Don't they have the same fuel system?

[Captain Mal]

Rebel,

Agreed, but not with brand F. Ask my neighbor about his 6 clutch assemblies, flywheels and hubs. Brand F has the worst factory reps, warranty support, transmissions and front ends.

Now brand D has the motor but...the new generation 3 verson is now using a similar fuel system as the Duramax. It does have a new automatic transmission that might be better but it's real new to say. Brand D has also had injector pump issues but that motor is real easy to deal with and the generation 3 version sure has power, good fuel economy and silence. Buy it with a manual transmission and you will be shocked at fuel mileage solo approaching the mid-20's and towing mileage 20% better than the Duramax. A friend tows the same trailers I do and he now has 25,000 on the generation 3 Cummins. That's how I know.

Now you have to deal with the brand D brake rotors, fron tends, driveline issues and.....

Reliability is probably much better with Brand D as it's breakdowns will give some warning and preparation time. The Duramax just leaves me stuck right here, right now. There is no free lunch.

When I talk to people towing it is common to see Cummins over 400,000 miles. One fellow told me he's rebuilding at 1 million miles. The world is full of stories but there has been lots of time for lots of Cummins to be out on the road.

Give me a GM with a Cummins.

[motovet]

0% for 60 months.

[Rebel_Horseman]

I agree with that Captain Mal. I'd love to stick one of the older HO 24 Valve Cummins motors into my truck. I wonder if the Allison has a bolt-up bell housing? The electronics would also be a problem too. Oh well. I'd go with Brand D if I was to swap right now. The motor's easy to work on as well as the rest of the drivetrain. I guess my girlfriend is just going to have to learn to shift for herself if I do. ;) A friend of mine recently bought an '03 with the standard output Cummins and auto and so far they really love it. In the mean time I'm sitting here waiting for my Dmax to get out of the shop. It wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't supposed to move 300 miles last weekend so that I could start my new job. :mad:

Reb [><]

[Colorado Kid]

Dodge has changed to a similar fuel system, but the injectors are still where you can get at them...nearly as easy as changing spark plugs on a straight 6. The D-max is in the middle as far as difficulty in performing these jobs as the 6.0 PSD has to come out of the truck for a surprising number of tasks.

[Alli-max]

Sounds like some of you are really put out as I am. I talked to GM a few months ago about my cooling problem. I explained that I had the problem before my 100K was up, but now over 100K and the same problem. They pretty much said 'go away' and let the dealer deal with it since the mis-diagnosed the situation. the dealer i was dealing with, LONE STAR GMC IN McKINNEY, TEXAS, were absolutely hard to talk to and deal with. Not worth my time to chase after it, and they knew this.

The MAIN reason I bought this diesel truck was longivity... I put 60K a year on trucks, and was killing gassers. So, here i am again, with 120K on my truck (spending over $5,000 for upgrades with the Duraminimum and allison) and the truck is crap. I have been loyal to GM for my whole life (except for a 6 month stint with a dakota) and I am about to go "across the street". Funny thing is, they could care less.

[Rebel_Horseman]

Alli-Max, I wholeheartedly (sp?) agree with you. My truck has been in the shop for 1 whole week now. In that 1 week that dealership has managed to install 4 injectors out of the 8 they need to. I went by there tonight about 15 minutes before closing time. There was not a tech in sight and my truck was sitting there with the driver's side head off and only 4 injectors in. The other 4 were sitting on my seat and nothing had been touched on the passenger side. Talk about a case of the screaming reds! :mad: I talked to GM's customer service line and they basically told me I was screwed becasue they couldn't (or wouldn't) do anything to help me out. All I wanted was a rental truck to move my stuff from Baton Rouge to Shreveport like I was supposed to do last Saturday. This is my 3rd Chevy truck, and I promise it will be the last. I bought my truck for the same reasons you did...longevity and dependability. So far I have not seen either of these qualities in my truck. I can't imagine why I should have to spend hundreds of additional dollars on extra fuel filtes and pumps when the system that was designed by GM should be adequate. If it's not then design a system that will filter the fuel properly. :eek: Yeah I know Ford and Dodge have their problems, but they can not be as unconcerned over customer happiness as GM is. The customer service from both the dealership and the GM Customer Service line has been, in country terms, pi** poor and totally unacceptable.

Reb [><]

[ 05-22-2003: Message edited by: Rebel_Horseman ]</p>