Hot Juice and Propane

[03BlueHD]

Anybody running the Hot Juice and propane injection?

What are the results?

Can the Allison handle it?

How about some #'s? dyno?

Thanks

[sdaver]

how bout comp juice and propane.......0-60 mid 5s less than 14 seconds@ 100mph quarter mile all gtech so far........@7500lbs and no a stock allison will not stand it. will it mac or steve :D :D

[SoCalDMAX]

Sdaver is running that and more. The Hot Juice alone makes more power than the Allison can handle for any period of time.

The propane by itself will get you pretty close to slippage as well.

I dyno'd 247hp stock, 331hp with Juice level 4, 345hp with propane alone and 401 with both on. This was with a stock tranny, but locked in 4th with a Tech II. This combo alone could make the tranny slip under 3/4 power going into 5th, or slip while engaged in 5th while towing.

Regards, Steve

[mackin]

Originally posted by sdaver:
how bout comp juice and propane.......0-60 mid 5s less than 14 seconds@ 100mph quarter mile all gtech so far........@7500lbs and no a stock allison will not stand it. will it mac or steve :D :D I'll plead the fifth,your honorable Mr Sdaver .....
Talk to my lawyer .....

Socal wrote in part
401 with both onPretty near a virgin if you ask me

Mac :D :D :D

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

STOCK ALLISON,

Hot Juice --- pulling a slight grade --- empty truck --- foot thru the floorboards :eek: :eek: ,

Felt a little hesitation, TOO LATE --->> Third Gear, LIMP CITY :rolleyes: .

Stop, get out the Predator, P0700 TCM Malfunction ???

Any stock tranny with a box that has no defueling is asking for a new tranny or 3rd gear or better yet neutral.

Gonna hook up with a "friend" to reset as the Predator cannot reset a TCM Code :( .

Be aware if you bomb the truck you will learn.

Looks like before too soon my truck will have a Suncoast transplant.

GMC ;)

[mackin]

Originally posted by GMC-2002-Dmax:
STOCK ALLISON,

Hot Juice --- pulling a slight grade --- empty truck --- foot thru the floorboards :eek: :eek: ,

Felt a little hesitation, TOO LATE --->> Third Gear, LIMP CITY :rolleyes: .

Stop, get out the Predator, P0700 TCM Malfunction ???

Any stock tranny with a box that has no defueling is asking for a new tranny or 3rd gear or better yet neutral.

Gonna hook up with a "friend" to reset as the Predator cannot reset a TCM Code :( .

Be aware if you bomb the truck you will learn.

Looks like before too soon my truck will have a Suncoast transplant.

GMC ;) BWAHAHAHAHAAH .....

You know what that means don't ya Tony ??? All our lil meets (try outs )on the back roads of *ent are catching up .....

Mac ;)

[SoCalDMAX]

Mac,


Pretty near a virgin if you ask me

Mac :D :D :D Hey, at least my tranny is still in great working condition!


BWAHAHAHAHAAH .....

You know what that means don't ya Tony ??? All our lil meets (try outs )on the back roads of *ent are catching up .....

Mac ;) Don't laugh too hard at your buddy there! Rumor has it that if Joe doesn't send you a tranny real quick, you're gonna be forced to go out and get one of those little 2-stroke scooters to get around on. Have you seen that video of the scooter with NOS and a tranny?

It blows away a WS6 Trans Am with NOS and a ton of SLP parts... I can just see you now, trying to ride that little scooter! LMAO!

Be sure to post pics... :D

Regards, Steve

[03BlueHD]

Originally posted by GMC-2002-Dmax:
STOCK ALLISON,

Hot Juice --- pulling a slight grade --- empty truck --- foot thru the floorboards :eek: :eek: ,

Felt a little hesitation, TOO LATE --->> Third Gear, LIMP CITY :rolleyes: .

Stop, get out the Predator, P0700 TCM Malfunction ???

Any stock tranny with a box that has no defueling is asking for a new tranny or 3rd gear or better yet neutral.

Gonna hook up with a "friend" to reset as the Predator cannot reset a TCM Code :( .

Be aware if you bomb the truck you will learn.

Looks like before too soon my truck will have a Suncoast transplant.

GMC ;) What are you saying then? That after time, I'm gonna smoke the Allison?

[mackin]

Socal wrote in part :

Don't laugh too hard at your buddy there! Rumor has it that if Joe doesn't send you a tranny real quick, you're gonna be forced to go out and get one of those little 2-stroke scootersScooter HUH !!!!! :mad:

I got spare wheels ..... ;)

Let me tell you the Allison is one tough tranny,don't let any one kid ya ... No way in hell would a rubberband take what I've thrown at it,don't ask I wont tell you anyway ..... I will drive it till it's updated ,without any doubt in my mind ....


Which brings me too ....

Drum roll please ,

Here Yee, Here Yee !!!!!!!

Had a nice convo with Suncoast (Joe) this afternoon and my tranny should be built next week !!!!!!!

Ring the Bell,there goes anouther one ..... Mister I'll tell you if his phone wasn't ringing off the hook when I called,it will be even more soon ..... What till these North East guys go for a ride ....

Man I can't wait ..... Geerhead clear the schedule.... I'll be in touch ,partner .... Wooo Dogie I wont sleep till it's done .....

Mac

:D :D :D :D :D

[mackin]

What are you saying then? That after time, I'm gonna smoke the Allison?That depends on you .... Moderation .....

Here's an analogy .....

If you get a speeding ticket who's fault is it ??

a) The manufacture
b) The truck
c) Your right foot

See what I mean ..

Mac http://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb/hihi.gif http://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb/hihi.gif http://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb/hihi.gif

[SoCalDMAX]

Mac,

The good news is, your tranny is getting built next week!! :D


The bad news is, it's going into my truck. Bwhahahaha!!! tongue.gif

Gotcha!

And don't think the irony of YOU, preaching moderation is lost on all of us.... ROTFLMAO!!

I gotta hand it to ya, you're good! :D :D

Regards, Steve

[sdaver]

I think yall should not modify a perfectly good truck. Stock is best the general designed it that way................bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :D :D :D unmodified dave dog

[03BlueHD]

Oh you guys are a real hoot..... Thanks for the well thought out answers.....

[SoCalDMAX]

Hey, Don't go pickin' on Hoot! He didn't do anything!


Seriously, these 2 guys are 2 of the few who have the most experience with what you asked. They're also a lotta fun as well. ;)

Your question was about Hot Juice, propane and can the Allison handle it. The only part that wasn't answered was dyno #s on the Hot Juice. I don't have any personal experience with that one but I've heard from a good source that it added up to 140hp, so figure 375-385 rwhp by itself. Adding propane won't give you another 100hp, but 60 or 70rwhp would be a good guess, so probably 440-455rwhp with that combo. A stock Allison won't take that for very long at all.

So are you currently running Hot Juice and propane? Are you considering it?

There's no getting around it, you'll have to upgrade the Allison if you intend to use all of that power.

Regards, Steve

[sdaver]

the version of the juice that I stack with propane made over 400 rwhp on a similar 02 dmax. The propane adds a conservative 50 or so rwhp. The propane does wonders for the turbo it spools much faster. The motor is quieter also with this combo. Certain adjustment have to be made to run lp with boxes that have alot of timing. LP onset and overall lp line pressure have been reduced slightly to remove any signs of detonation(rattle) My goal for an everyday driver was 425@the rear wheels and this combo does that easliy and some. Im looking for a mustang dyno in my area to do some testing but have not been sucessful.....closeest so far is in New Orleans.......maybe in a month or so :D dave

[03BlueHD]

Originally posted by SoCalDMAX:
Hey, Don't go pickin' on Hoot! He didn't do anything!LOL! That's not what I meant! :rolleyes:



So are you currently running Hot Juice and propane? Are you considering it?

There's no getting around it, you'll have to upgrade the Allison if you intend to use all of that power.I'm currently running Hot Juice only, but originally considered propane and was wondering of there was any advantages to run both. I really don't need that kind of power, and I have no plans to race. This is my daily driver and weekend getaway vehicle, so I also need reliability. The thought of upgrading my Allison with only 3500 miles on it, just doesn't turn me on!! LOL! So, I'm still trying to get a feel for what I can and can't do to this truck without damaging the stock trans.

I understand that these guys know their stuff and that's why I ask, but like I said there is a learning curve and some of this is still doesn't compute for me.

Thanks

[imported_]

Originally posted by sdaver:
The propane adds a conservative 50 or so rwhp. The propane does wonders for the turbo it spools much faster. The motor is quieter also with this combo...... So would it be advantagous to run the hot juice at a lower level with the propane? Is propane the way to go if you are going to do a fully bombed dmax with upgraded tranny.

I guess what I am trying to ask is what is the most logical steps in a build up to get the most use out of the equipment I have but making progress towards the ultimate truck.

For example, I don't mind adding propane and compromising the allison if I am going to replace it with a reworked one anyway. I would like to get as much use out of the tranny before I upgrade it. Does this make sense. I would rather plan on wrecking it and replacing it then replacing a part that is fine in its current state.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Originally posted by 03BlueHD:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GMC-2002-Dmax:
STOCK ALLISON,

Hot Juice --- pulling a slight grade --- empty truck --- foot thru the floorboards :eek: :eek: ,

Felt a little hesitation, TOO LATE ---&gt;&gt; Third Gear, LIMP CITY :rolleyes: .

Stop, get out the Predator, P0700 TCM Malfunction ???

Any stock tranny with a box that has no defueling is asking for a new tranny or 3rd gear or better yet neutral.

Gonna hook up with a "friend" to reset as the Predator cannot reset a TCM Code :( .

Be aware if you bomb the truck you will learn.

Looks like before too soon my truck will have a Suncoast transplant.

GMC ;) What are you saying then? That after time, I'm gonna smoke the Allison? </font>[/QUOTE]UH, I may have forgot to mention that I have been Hot Juiced for a year, I have borrowed some things that may have helped my tranny along........ :eek: , at the time I was denting the floor pan under the go pedal I had just turned a small switch in my console two clicks to the right, MAC knows what I mean, and with the turbo whistling just a little song from the 30's the little girl Allison cried ....BOO HOO, Ive had enough :rolleyes: .

So 03BlueHD the answer is my tranny will tolerate a 90 hp juice, has problems with the Hot Juice at times, and if I stack, well let's just say I will be giving Joe a call.

At this time I will wait till December as I will be driving to Florida anyway.

To answer SoCalDmax question ---&gt; Hot Juice, my truck = 386.7 RWHP & 721 LB/Ft Torque which was a 137 HP gain over stock at 249 RWHP, with stacking different combos the best I have seen is in my SIG at 435/774. I did pull a 429 RWHP/ 785 RWTorque with a slightly different combo that same day

GMC

[SoCalDMAX]

Yup. as Kennedy has said a number of times, if you have the Hot Juice and a stock Allison, you aren't getting all of the power that the module can make in level 4, it's trying to keep the tranny from slipping.

Propane is awesome, it's the only upgrade I know of that allows you to tow heavy at full power, 98rwhp and can actually LOWER EGTs, even if only 50-150*. Try to add 100hp with a module and tow in that level, especially on a hill and EGTs will go up to unsafe levels.

It spools up the turbo faster and creates more boost for a given rpm. The best part is that you can turn it on/off at will with a switch on the dash. I had my 11,000lb trailer and pulled up next to a diesel Excursion with a good size trailer, he was blowing black smoke struggling to maintain 55mph up a 6% grade.

I had the juice in level 2 and my Ford buddy(F250/w 460) was in the passenger seat. I rolled on a little throttle, got a med. sized puff of black smoke and turned on the propane. The turbo whistled, my truck SURGED forward, I added more throttle, the exhaust went clear and my buddy snapped back in the seat and nearly spit out his teeth!

We pulled away from that Excursion like he just dropped an anchor! That was one of the runs where i finally backed out of the throttle at about 88mph uphill, wondering how much a ticket like that would cost! That was the first trip I shredded a trailer tire, and I lost 1 each on the next 2 trips.

Propane is cheap... tires start adding up. ;) I can hear it now... "Well honey, the tranny upgrade only cost $4500. I spent the other $8,000 on tires... :eek: "

Regards, Steve

[mackin]

GMC

Just get home ***** ?? Rymes with ***** ,lets not give Dukie any ideas .....LOL

Wanna do some smokers?? Poor Bill got caught in the cross wind I'm thinking ,my plate was covered with Michelin fog ..... ;)

Any Redsox fans here ?? LOL


Mac :D :D :D

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Originally posted by mackin:
GMC

Just get home ***** ?? Rymes with ***** ,lets not give Dukie any ideas .....LOL

Wanna do some smokers?? Poor Bill got caught in the cross wind I'm thinking ,my plate was covered with Michelin fog ..... ;)

Any Redsox fans here ?? LOL


Mac :D :D :D Rolled in at 1:30, took some back roads home, left some new marks, kinda like your Maggies first shot.

My 12.5/33's hook up like slicks after you roast 2 gears and slip slide into 3rd. No woo, woo, woo ----&gt;&gt; clunk &lt;&lt;----- like ya got from your TC yet tongue.gif

Was on on of my frequently traveled roads so I am gonna get some PICS in the AM, gotta compare to Diesel Dragons 4 liner :eek:

You need to go back and snap a shot, just make sure those ladies aren't there or you'll get a visit, sorry BILL that was just wrong dude.....

And yes I got ***** a little while after I got *****. Had to walk the dog. ;)

Later,

GMC

[JEBar]

you guys may find it hard to believe that back in his younger/wilder days, Mack test drove my truck :eek: :eek: over some interesting Conn. back roads ... I am happy to say that the imprints of my grip on the passanger side arm rests and the crease in the leather seat aren't nearly as noticable as they once were .... you can tell from his post in this (and other threads) that he has mellowed considerably since then :D :D ... Jim

[hoot]

I run propane only. I love how it smooths out an already smooth running diesel. You have to be careful with the settings if you plan on towing with it. I have mine set for performace. With it set that way, you get way too much lp when towing up hill when the boost goes way up. You actually start losing power and she'll start pinging. The lp chokes the combustion out of oxygen.

With the performance setting and not towing, the power as she hits fourth and fifth gear is like an amusement ride launch as the boost goes up and the lp really dumps. The rpms help keep the cylinders loaded with oxygen. It's the oposite experience as what happens to a gasser. Gassers tend to lose power as you get into the higher gears. This engine is amazing as well as how the trans continues to upshift... and as you go to the next higher gear it pulls even harder. I wonder if it's the torque management going away in the higher gears?

I limped my truck I think three times with lp. Haven't limped it in a year though cause I get off it somewhat after it hits fifth.... only uphill. On flats I can hold it hard. My trucks seems less suseptable to limp mode than it was in the first 6 months of ownership. Maybe the tranny reflash did something.

[mackin]

Originally posted by JEBar:
you guys may find it hard to believe that back in his younger/wilder days, Mack test drove my truck :eek: :eek: over some interesting Conn. back roads ... I am happy to say that the imprints of my grip on the passanger side arm rests and the crease in the leather seat aren't nearly as noticable as they once were .... you can tell from his post in this (and other threads) that he has mellowed considerably since then :D :D ... Jim Most definately .... ;) I am still on parole ....

Doesen't look like it will happen this year,as it's way to late now.... :(
I'm sure you'll be back up at some point ,watch the parkways ... LOL

Mac

[WhiteDuramax]

Where are you guys getting your kits to run propane, I have seen many of them from 500$ up to a grand. I wouldnt think there would be that much difference in them. What works the best? Also what are you running for tanks, several guys I have seen are just running bbq grill tanks instead of buying a 500$ tank. I think propane would help me a lot pulling, cause now she smokes like a bombed cummins off the line.

[mackin]

Originally posted by WhiteDuramax:
Where are you guys getting your kits to run propane, I have seen many of them from 500$ up to a grand. I wouldnt think there would be that much difference in them. What works the best? Also what are you running for tanks, several guys I have seen are just running bbq grill tanks instead of buying a 500$ tank. I think propane would help me a lot pulling, cause now she smokes like a bombed cummins off the line. I don't know much about this,but ... ;)

Powershot 2000 is a good set-up working off of boost pressure .... Price has gone up a lil ...

Easy install vapor draw ....
If your gonna do it do it right use only a DOT approved tank ... Available at RV stores or online ...
Some schmuck sent me PICS of his set-up shoot me a E-mail I'll forward ...
Mac :D :D :D

[SoCalDMAX]

Was that the Hoot schmuck or the Sdaver schmuck? ;) you gotta be more specific...

Powershot 2000 is the best, IMHO. Hoot says it and I believe him. Period.

OK, I checked and he just happened to be right. It happens about twice a day, just like the broken clock... tongue.gif

It works great for towing!

Regards, Steve

[hoot]

Bigger is better!

http://onramp.uscom.com/%7Ehoot/cars/duramax/gmc/propane/bigtank1.jpg

[sdaver]

Now you see me

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL59/718709/1218122/32375154.jpg



Now you don't :D

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL59/718709/1218122/32375270.jpg

[et]

sdaver,

You did provide a means of venting propane in the bottom of your box didn't you?

[sdaver]

yes :D

[mackin]

Nice set-up .....

Mac :D :D :D

I got nailed speeding again ,I'll tell you all about it tomorrow ... :(

I'm trying to drink away my sorrows currently ....

[dmaxalliTech]

Hoot, Sdaver, nice setups. Very clean. Mac, I toast you to that. Whats the p/o's face look like when you blow by him in that big black dooly? :eek:

I have heard people at gm say that Propane when used in moderation is a good thing.. How long does that big tank last Hoot? Sdaver? I have considered it, but I dont want to fill up lp all the time and Diesel..

[hoot]

It's a 22 gal tank but I can only get 18 in it before liquid starts coming out the spit valve.

Usually a month or so. Sometimes less.

[dmaxalliTech]

Mike, $$ for setup?

[hoot]

The Powershot was $499 shipped at the time. We got a screaming deal on the tank... a few of us bought at the same time and there was pricing misquote that was honored by Manchester Tank... the tank was $317 + $74 shipped. The materials and cost for brake bending of the platform was $121.

[imported_]

Has anybody stuffed a tank underneath the truck anywhere? I hate to lose the box space.

[SoCalDMAX]

Big Blue,

Funny you should ask. Manchester (pretty much the only game in town on propane tanks) makes a 27 gal dual tank that fits under the bed and replaces the spare tire. but not on our trucks. It's about 1" too wide. :(

The only thing that will fit is a single 11 gal tank that would mount just fwd of the fuel tank and require a remote fill connection.

Regards, Steve

[imported_]

Thanks Steve,

I am going to check with our "local yahoos" tommorow to see what I can find.

[HDLD]

I talked to Diesel Performance Products about 10 days ago and they set me up with an installer just across the border who I hope to visit in the spring.

They seemed very good to deal with. Sent me some word documents and pictures including install instructions for the Duramax.

If you were running it in Economy mode and had a 4" exhaust, would guages still be necessary?

[hoot]

There is a company that sells undertruck tank kits that work on our trucks. Look at my signature. That's who I bought my tank from.
http://www.***performance.com/truck%20pictures/images/Our_underbody_Propane_tank.jpg

[SoCalDMAX]

There is no Economy mode, it simply has an on/off switch that opens the solenoid. Then as boost hits 4psi, it starts feeding in propane proportionally to boost level.

As set from the factory, it should provide 100rwhp, maybe 60-70hp when stacked with high hp boxes. Dave has adjusted his regulator down from 40 to 35psi to provide a little less propane, since he has everything including the kitchen sink hooked up to that motor... :eek:

If you aren't getting this done until the spring, that's plenty of time to save up for and install boost and EGT gauges. I would recommend those on even a stock truck, just for curiosity's sake. Your boost and EGTs are gonna depend on your load, % grade of the hill, fuel quality, speed, air temp, etc. So there's no way to predict what they might be, honestly.

Regards, Steve

[sdaver]

powershot refers to economy mode as increasing the amount of boost necessary to start the propane flowing. It is adjustable. Power mode might start say at 3psi whereas ecomonomy/tow would not start until 7 or 8 psi

[hoot]

You can adjust it to start flowing lp as low a 2 psi of boost. You can seperately adjust flow volume.

The unit is basically a billet aluminum diaphram valve that controls flow proportionally to boost.

[imported_]

Is the PS2000 worth the 600 bucks. It looks like one of those things that would be so simple to make. All it is is a valve, regulater and boost switch. Am I missing something, or are those thing expensive?

Plus a tank, remote fill and hardware.

How does the propane do at -40?

[hoot]

Originally posted by Big Blue:
Is the PS2000 worth the 600 bucks. It looks like one of those things that would be so simple to make. All it is is a valve, regulater and boost switch. Am I missing something, or are those thing expensive?

Plus a tank, remote fill and hardware.

How does the propane do at -40? Is it worth it? If you have confidence in building your own system to save a few hundred bucks more power to you. Safety is a concern along with relibility and performance. The PS2000 is proportional. I don't think you can build one that works that smoothly with off the shelf parts.

What happens at -40? I don't know. At that temp I don't think I'd be worrying or using performance add-ons.

[ 08-25-2003, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: hoot ]

[imported_]

Originally posted by Big Blue:
How does the propane do at -40? Ya a stupid question, I thought about it and it has nothing to do with the truck when off. I was thinking about the vehicles that run on propane as a primary fuel. I have heard that the propane will gel when very cold.

I am off to find a PS2000 today!

[mackin]

Originally posted by Big Blue:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Big Blue:
How does the propane do at -40? Ya a stupid question, I thought about it and it has nothing to do with the truck when off. I was thinking about the vehicles that run on propane as a primary fuel. I have heard that the propane will gel when very cold.

I am off to find a PS2000 today! </font>[/QUOTE]"Freezing" is a issue with a liquid with drawl systems,like on a converted from gas High Low fork lift ...
They can be trouble some in cold weather....

Mac

[sdaver]

big blue drop me an email :D

[imported_]

Originally posted by sdaver:
big blue drop me an email :D You've got mail! :D