Full Time Lift Pump Please

[Gbenzx01]

Installed cat 2mic post oem & then was losing prime after shutdown so replaced pushloks with parkers & clamps & still losing prime sometimes after hour or so.
Talked to Scott @ Reliable Industries & looked up the FM100=84gph & FM1000=180gph but it says up to these numbers.
On dp somewhere, someone found that dmax needs 110 to 130gph @ apprx 5 to 7 psi.
Scott says several are using the 100 without problems but i'm concerned abt cooling & longevity. When I ask abt the 1000 they say it's no longer available!
Where oh where is the pump we need with or without filter/water seperator or whatever? No gasoline pumps please.
Now if demand @ the injection pump exceeds 84gph will the 100 allow this thru suction flow?
Also can the 100 pumps be mounted in tandem & switch selectable?
Yes I know, but our diesel people are swamped around here. Had to leave it @ Roys Injection for 2 days to get the 2 hoses swaped out!

Thanx Gben

[CPMac632]

On my truck I never get even close to 84 gph. The pump doens't return or flow much as set up originally.

[Amianthus]

I am using the Product Engineering 4200 pump. It's a series wound, 7 vane, internally bypassed pump. It's rated at 270 gph. I can tell you that I have the unit set for 19.5 psi post filter and cannot draw the unit below 12 psi, UNDER FULL FUELING!

The fella at PE that designed the pump is standing behind it too. There are several of us running it in our Dodges with good success. He is very interested in making this pump work for us and has helped me out with a couple of questions that I had. Not to mention the pump is completely rebuildable.

www.producteng.com

I think you might want to take a look at them. If you want more information, I'll do my best. Good luck.

[CPMac632]

Amianthus I think we should be careful what psi we send to our Duramax stock pump. It is used to having a vacuum so I would be careful. It doesn't return much as set up factory and I haven't found out what it is capable of returning if you force feed it.

[Gbenzx01]

CPMac

You're certainly correct that the pump dosen't return or flow as much as set up originally as far as ours is too.
Does this beg for more fuel? But not pressure.
It was JK I believe that punched his thumb pump a few times at idle & the engine replied with a few knocks & coughs like, stop that stuff! Well what pressure can be had with this little thumber?
In NC now but when I get back I'll tap the idlewire up to 1250rpm & try it & then to 1900 & just see if it still complains.

Amianthus,

Product Engineering must really have an outstanding product in the 4000 series hi capacity pumps. Two years unconditional parts & labor standby is good stuff.
But for the Dmax it looks like 270gph may be abt 100 higher than what is really needed. The 4100 @ their web does however come down to 12psi.
Now back to JK's thumb! OK?
Could I go with two Stanadyne's for same price?
Don't take long to get me thimks lostt in this stuff.
JK, Todd, Bear, TraceF, Cutoff La, Chatterbox???

Thanx guys for the good replies,
Gben
Stanadyne 100's I meant.

[Dave Lewis]

Could be when JK hit the primer he released a load of air??

[CntrlCalDmax]

I just finished towing 10,000 pounds from California to South Carolina and back with the Stanadyne 100 pump/filter installed. Prior to the lift pump install, I could only run 150 miles before I had to bleed the mega filter. I made the complete 6,000+ mile trip without bleeding. I bypass fuel around the lift pump so that at idle I have 4 psi and this keeps a positive pressure (down to 1 psi at full throttle) all the time, even with with Hot Juice on level 2 towing. I'm very happy with this setup.

[Dave Lewis]

CntrlCalDmax,
Any difference in mileage or engine noise??

[CntrlCalDmax]

Dave,

None that I can tell. She ran great with very little down shifting. I made 10.6 MPG average the whole trip running 70-75 MPH most of the time. Fifth Wheel stands pretty tall and pushed some good head winds several hundred miles. We were about 5 hours ahead of the tornados in Jackson, TN.

Leo

[jbplock]

Leo,

How are you by-passing fuel around the lift pump? Will the Stanadyne pump & filter free flow if the pump fails? Thanks!
smile.gif

[Kennedy]

The pumping of the primer bulbe was likely agitating some air in the situations I described.

The PE pumps mentioned above will NOT allow a pull through in the event of failure. You will need to bypass around it.

[Amianthus]

JK is right on. If the PE fails, good night! It will not allow flow-through operation, even at reduced levels.

I wasn't meaning that you should ram 19 psi through the Dmax pump. You can adjust it and the internal bypass will regulate flow to whatever psi you want. If you want 4 psi, you can get it. And the rest will be recirculated inside the pump until the demand calls for more. It all depends on how much pressure you want. (Yes, I understand that flow is what you want, but pressure being a function of flow and easier to measure, that's what I chose to reference.)

[srubrn]

I talked to my contact at Stanadyne and he said you shouldn't add any kind of additional pump to our system. The OEM pump is not designed for this. He called it sideloading the pump and will lead to damage.

[Gbenzx01]

My thanx for all responses,
Have ordered the fm 100 pump/filter/seperator like Leo is using from Reliable Industries at Metair, La.(Sharp Folks)
I cannot say that a lift pump won't damage the Bosch system in the long term although it has not so far in the est 30-40 applications which may represent several hundred thousand miles.
Anyone from Bosch on board DP? Is it a gear pump?
Is there a way to tell if the thing is running overtemp? If one side of a anything is pounding out 20k psi how will it even imagine that say 10psi, even 100psi is nudging it's other side?
I will swap the 5mic filter that comes with the fm100 fuel manager to a 30mic when it restricts since it's primary function will be to pump & squeez out the water. Will also use bypass tube with a 1/2 chk valve so the thing will never quit & leave me walking!
Have ordered 18gal polyeutherene from West Marine to go against the cab & gravity/siphon feed via shutoff valve to fuel up partly anyway onthefly.
Nope, no more metal oxidizers for me, in this system anyway.
Sure enough when I punched the thumb pump a few time at idle she rattled a little. Next time I cranked up tapped the idlewire upto 1250 & thumbed it up several times with no complaints at all, and same thing at 1900rpm. So if this is indeed air, why not at the higher rpm?
Brokers! One of your maxers left you walking yet?
Thanx for all this real estate,

Gben

[Gbenzx01]

jbplock,

leo may not have caught your question but he may be set up like the one tommy & JK have put together with the 6.5 lift pump.
they have a manual regulator valve in the bypass line & is used in circular flow to control pressure going upto the bosch pump.
Sharp setup & I thimk may set mine up the same.
And if pump fails & stops flow the bypass takes over and is still open at the regulator for suction from bosch pump.

Leo,
Did you try the fm100 straight up w/o turning the pressure down to see how it did.
Idleclatter or someone is running the thing straight w/o difficulty,(can't find it as usual)!
I would hope the fm100 is self priming & maybe find a way for it to also pull the fuel from my 18gal aux tank in the bed. No tank I could find reasonable had bottom drain, they all come out the top!
Also I might add that the mileage is up on 1st & 2nd fillup with cat 2mic filter 1.3mpg but I'll need the 3rd fillup for avg, we'll see.
Anyway goto tommy's pics, nice setup.
Thanx, Gben

[CntrlCalDmax]

Sorry jbplock, missed that one.

The FM100 will not free flow fuel if the pump quits. The bypass is a ball valve plumed from the pump inlet to the pump outlet. I think pictures in sig. show the bypass valve better than I can explain it.

Gbenzx01,

I installed the FM100 initially with a bypass so that I could run if the electric pump failed. Later I tried using the bypass as a pressure reduction valve. I noticed no difference in how the truck ran or performed with full pressure or reduced. I only reduce the pressure because the engine driven pump usually pulls a suction and want to be on the safe side. I really don't think the full 10 or so psi will hurt the engine driven pump.

Leo

[Gbenzx01]

Todd,

There is conflicting advice from stanadyne themselves abt pressure but someone may have removed it by mistake.
But the local people at L&J est some 40-50 of the fm100 in pickups by now although not know which are Dmaxs.
With 8psi from press side of pump & restrict at oem & 2mic Cat pressure should be down enough so there is no problem.

Leo, Did you get a psi reading at idle & max flow going into the bosch pump? I can tell that Todd does believe the guy he was talking to & I've now seen that our dmax with max flow from stan pump performs alot like the one I've rode in near Daytona that is equipped with the Maxamizer or whatever they call it.
I should have never floored the thing & I would have never known. Rite? But, since I did just ain't gonna give it up. Right?
But I'll try tobe lite on it(drive with just the sock on my right feet) until I get a few instruments hooked up to see whats cooking in there.
Thanx, Gben

[Kennedy]

FWIW,

I am told that the same Bosch common rail pump is being used on the Cummins WITH a relatively puny lift pump. Not saying that it is OK on the Dmax, but my intention is to put on a pump Like Abear's only w/o a pressure regulating bypass loop and let it pump.


I am NOT going to add a third filter though :rolleyes:


Time will tell, but it is my feeling that the actual flow volume of the fuel system does NOT produce major vacuum when drawing through the existing components or my Mega filter. I believe that the majority is due to gravity and inertia, AND it is a greater force than one would think...

[WhiteDuramax]

So is the point of having a lift pump just so you dont have to prime the system, or what? Wouldnt you still have to bleed air out if it got in, cause wouldnt the lift pump just try to push it right through the system, and apparently the stock vacumm pump is not pulling it through, which is good. Just wanting to know the benefits of adding a lift pump.

[sdaver]

the pump bracket and wiring were easy the two way valves for the bypass were a major pain......buts its all working with 26 miles to date....... fm 100 lift pump w/ 5 micron pre lift and 2 micron post lift but pre oem..........three skint knuckles and a mechanic with a bad attitude(employee) because I held him at gun point until we got the valves right.......finished around 6 pm started about noon.....and yes for now thats 3 filters :D

[jbplock]

WhiteDuramax,
The Liftpump pressurizes the system and pushes fuel through the filter(s). This prevents vacuum induced out-gassing of dissolved air from the warm fuel. Pushing fuel through the filters should also utilize all the surface area of the filter by preventing an air space from forming on the top of the filter. I’ve got about 600 miles on my Lift Pump with the (over-kill) third filter (30mu FM100)in front of the pump and all air is gone – no periodic bleeding required. The pressure at the Schrader valve test port is set to 0.3 PSI. I also just changed out the original OE fuel filter at 10kmiles and bleeding the new filter with the lift pump was very convenient. Just open the bleeder and run the lift pump until fuel appears. Close the bleeder and run the pump for few seconds and the engine started right up with no extra cranking or hesitation.

I’ve also noticed that the OPS will keep the pump running for a few seconds after the engine shuts down and the oil pressure bleeds off. This causes the Vac/Pressure gauge I have on the MegaFilter bleed port to increase from 0 to 3 psi immediately after shut down. However the gauge will always fall back to 2inHg of vacuum (due to the weight of the fuel in the lines being pulled by gravity back toward the tank?)
smile.gif

[Gbenzx01]

Thanx guys,

John,
They tell us the Stanadyne has an internal bypass demand loop but don't know yet at what psi it kicks in. If the output is 8 then maybe that is what it takes to open it. He just says when the flow backs up? Abt the Cummins, how quiet! Now we'll see abt their filtration, 6.0 included...

Sdave,
Enjoyed the call Dave & yes pretty good little chore. I waited almost 3 weeks to get the guy I wanted to do the install. How much? Ain't saying.
But would have almost bought the hypertech.
Don't you like the little humm of the pump? How nice, just enough to let you know it's working.
Your fuel computer already knows what you have done & if yours does what mine did abt it your off to something very good. But again mine was clean stock, believe I'd walk lite for a while maybe tobe sure the computers don't turn their noses up at each other.

Careful, Gben