View Full Version : which is better: Edge Juice or Quadzilla Stealth Tuner?
Bill Harper
08-19-2003, 21:45
Which tuner is better of the two, the Edge Juice or the Quadzilla Stealth tuner? I have been waiting to get the new edge juice with the control module but am getting iritated by the contionous puchback of the release date. I do not have gauges yet and think that the LCD monitior that edge is to release is cool, but am getting tired of waiting. Are gauges better than this LCD anyways? Just debating on what to do? I have straight through exhast already too, so just need the power now. ;)
welcome.......soon Ill have some answers.........quad on loan coming.......king d is most qualified to answer at this point :D
Having had both the 90 Juice and the (currently) 110 Quad tow tuner, I can say they are very similar on the highest setting. The Juice does have better puch off idle than the Quad but once the boost comes on they both haul. The Quad smokes less on the highest setting. No smoke at all on 50 & 70 Quad. Just a hint on 90 & 110. The Edge controller will show corrected speed on the controller and not on your speedo as I understand. The Quad will adjust your speedo. You can read and clear codes with a Quad and not with a Juice. The Quad 110 Stealth Tow Tuner is almost half the price of a Juice Controller combo. The Juice is suppose to monitor tranny slippage, the Quad doesn't. My tranny feels good though.
I will be in Green Bay withnin 2 weeks visiting my siblings. My buddy Rob (in GB) thinks he can smoke me with his new Hemi. This will be fun.
I've been running the Hot Juice for little less than a year. But I wanted to try something different so I picked up a 135 HP version of the Quad Stealth Tuner.
Then, Silver Bullet and I had some smokin runoffs comparing the two. They are very close when both are in their top levels.
The go pedal is not as twitchy with the Quad. I find the Quad very driveable in the 135 HP tune. They are comparable in smoke levels.
I'm still working with towing with the Quad. I've done a couple short tows of less than 20 miles with my 5er (13,300 lbs) but not enough for a detailed report.
I will say this, in towing with the Hot Juice in level two, I was setting several SES codes. Two about turbo boost, one about mass airflow sensor and another misc. code...something about loss of communications between ECM and TCM.????
I'm very interested in seeing if the Quad will do as well while towing as the Juice and without setting any codes....not that I worry, given that the Quad can read and clear them.
One final note, I like how the tranny shifts when it isn't being spoken to by the Juice. The Quad tunes only the ECM obviously and leaves TCM alone. I actually like that more and the tranny shows no signs of slipping in any gear.
OH, I was taken for a ride in a Max with the 215 HP Quad tune. Very, very strong and lots of smoke.
Mav, are you saying you would recommend the Quad tuner over the Juice? How does mileage compare?
Jim, I take it you like the Quad better?
I am kinda thinking about swapping out my Juice for the Quad. Seems like a cleaner install and the touchy throttle with the OJ is a slight problem for the missus.
How's your EGT compare?
Regards,
Lee
[ 08-20-2003, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: glclary ]
glclary,
I would say the Quad is the best bang for the buck. Does everything a predator does except read running diagnostics and EGT's are cooler.
I would recommend the Quad 110 Stealth Tow Tuner over a 90 Juice. These are the only two boxes I have had and can compare. Same power (except off idle) and you can change your speedo and you can remove the limiter and you can read and clear codes. The tow 110 Quad box has a 150 tune you can activate with a phone call also.
So what else does the 90 Juice do again except give you 4 power tunes and $200 more bucks out of your wallet? Don't get me wrong....the juice has great power but for less money you get alot more with the Quad.
I pulled the gauges out of my 3500 and have'nt installed them in my 2500HD yet. I talked to Quad and asked about towing without gauges on the 50hp. His response:
Yes it is very safe to tow with in the 50hp setting. In some cases even the 70hp would be fine. Our tuner has the lowest egt's on the market! It also has the least amount of black smoke. I would say that you should hit no more than 1200-1250deg pre turbo max, pulling your trailer and less than that empty. With a 4" exhaust I can barely hit 1100 deg! I would say that 1300-1350 is redline on the Dmax.
We can ship it however you like! Us mail is somewhat slow on occasion, but we have customers that require us to ship US mail to B.C. and other Canadian Provinces. I will also check on UPS as we do a tremendous amount of shipping with them and they cut us some special deals! If it isn't bad it might be worth it? Plus you don't have to wait so darn long!
The tuners are available right now. We had so many pre-orders that we are still catching up, but we have plenty of them. Your shipment could possible get delayed a day or two at worst due to the backup.
If you have any other questions please let me know.
Thanks,
Quad
I believe JK is going to carry the Quad tuners. Don't quote me on that though.
Mav, thank you sir. That's the kind of info I was looking for. I've never had the OJ over level 2. I just wanted to get rid of the 5/4/5 shifting while towing. I would guess the Quad will handle that without a problem.
Regards,
Lee
Greg McCall
08-21-2003, 07:06
Quad speed limiter ?
Are we saying here that I can "turn Off or up" the speed limiter on my 02 HD duramax with the Quad box ? I currently run Edge Hot Juice myself
Also a question for RV Guy or:
Have you altered your tranny for the extra power ? Do the Quad folks in your area do any tranny work on the Allison ? I live in Forney, Texas and have spoken to Quad about guages and exaust.
Silver Bullet
08-21-2003, 07:22
What Jim said!
I am running a Quad 110hp...I love it and am very happy with it. It produces smooth, clean power and it is very driveable. The go pedal is not overly sensitive, but when you drop the hammer it will go!!! :D
I have a big trip coming up in September...2500 miles...7000lbs of truck, 800lbs of human flesh, 6000lbs of horses/mules, 2500lbs of trailer, and 500lbs of gear! I can't wait!!! :D
Clary - check out GM Techlink as there is fix for 5-4-5 shift business...TCM update (see Allison Transmission Shift Busyness) (http://service.gm.com/gmtechlink/arcv_pdf/7_02_e.pdf)
Greg - Quad is working on some reasonably priced tranny packages...talk to him for more details. Jim's tranny is stock...like mine.
Originally posted by MAV:
I believe JK is going to carry the Quad tuners. Don't quote me on that though. That would be correct. I REALLY like the idea that a guy can revert to stock and move on to the next truck with this tuner!
Comparing to the Edge, these are 2 totally different programs.
There is more timing in the Quad programming so you WILL hear it and know it is there. It's not bad by any means, but there nonetheless.
The Edge is a bit touchy on the pedal, and can lay down a bit of smoke down low, BUT that is part of what makes it such a strong tow box. The Juice can also be somewhat "desensitized" by going to the CA programming BUT many who have run the full on Juice do not like the loss of response. There is also the potential of the Quad programming being beefed up on the lower end.
The Quad will REMOVE the speed limiter. I haven't tried to see how fast it will go, but wanted to point out, there is no 105 option etc. The Juice cannot, and will not change speed limiter from what I gather. The Quad does have the option of speed limit only on stock tune as well.
The Quad will bump the RPM limit on the race levels to 4400 rpm. :eek: The 2001's are not responding to this, but there is work in progress to unlock them as well. Here again, Edge does not do this.
The Edge has a few things that the Quad doesn't also. The Edge has the power down mode when ECT is cold and Hot. There is also the defuel enhancement with trans slippage. You can switch on the fly between two levels in normal and tow/haul. The forthcoming Attitude monitor has a ton of additional features I will not go into.
This is just a quick comparo. based on my experience with the two units.
I'm hoping to add the lower power Quad units to my site soon...
Greg McCall
08-21-2003, 08:10
Well if I can do away with this speed limiter I might move over to a different power adder,
and if I can get this tranny beefed up .....
Silver Bullet
I will talk to Quad about some new additions.
Thanks for the info all,
To add to JK's comments and comparisons between the Juice and Quad...
To me the Quad is more pleasurable to drive than the OJ. Keep in mind I run the Hot Juice. Man is that pedal twitchy.
A benefit of the OJ is you can have two settings, one level for normal and another for T/H. If you tow it can be a pain to have to change settings rather than push the T/H button.
I towed the other day and realized after I was on the highway that I had not changed my tune from the 135 HP setting. I just took it easy for the short tow I was doing.
As Silver Bullet said, both of our trannies are stock. Mine shows no signs of wanting to slip and it has never limped.
I think the Quad Stealth is a great product and will grow to be a real contender with all tuners.
Thanks S B, that's a good link. Hadn't seen that one before. I believe I already had that Allison upgrade. It helped but didn't eliminate the shifty business. The Juice gives the truck enough extra power that the speed doesn't drop enough on hills to force a downshift.
Let me know how things go on your "big tow".
John, the tire size adjustment and speed limiter, and rpm change is not an issue for me. Heck, I've already wrecked this truck twice (1st accident in 25 years), I need to learn to drive at the speed limit. :D
I do like the idea of lower EGT's stated on Quads website and the less twichy go pedal. I also like the idea of not removing a box when I take the truck into the dealer for oil changes etc. (I've become too lazy to change my oil. Hold your flames guys, I did it for 30 years and just don't have time anymore :D ). I would miss being able to have one tune for regular and and other for T/H. Thanks for your input.
RVGuy, speaking of Rv's we're going up I-77 to the Blue Ridge Parkway in Va camping this afternoon. I gotta get off the internet and get my honeydo's done before the wife gets home in a little while. Thanks.
Regards,
Lee
[ 08-21-2003, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: glclary ]
jcummins
08-21-2003, 09:01
I have the hot juice. Had the 90 version prior to that set to level 4. When first installed, I mean this truck ripped. After a couple of months, it has soften up, I think do to this adaptive learning stuff.. I
jcummins,
The Quad box shifts the truck more like stock. What ever pause you have between shifts now is what you will have. The OJ defuels big time compared to the Quad. I run around on the Quad 50hp level. I am not out to push my Allison to its breaking point. The 50 has some good power. :D
[quote] Questions is, I gather the Quad doesn
ratlover
08-21-2003, 10:22
Correct me if I'm wrong guys but one big reason I'm looking at the juice is that it is a piggy back unit. Once its gone its gone ;)
A tec can look and see that you have x amount of reflashes on something right?
I dont think that if you go in for an oil change they will scan your truck and tear up your warranty for having a bunch of reflashes. I just dont want to have any more hoops to jump through if the worse happens. I know they would have to prove that all those flashes were doing something that poped the motor but I dont want any more headaches.
Or am I worring too much :confused: And dont any one tell me to get another brain for my truck
Broker stated there IS a Juice detector out there. So whats the difference? If you bomb your truck and it blows up, its your fault....if the cause can be put on the box that was added.
Think about it. There have been performance chips out there for several years for the Duramax. How many instance of tranny/engine melt down have we learned about? And if any, how many of those were running a module/tuner???
The issue here is being prudent with how one treats the truck. This engine and tranny can be hurt without a performance mod if one runs the heck out of it.
I'm not to concerned about whether a dealer can see flashes of the ECM. I'm changing my fluids and maintaining the truck as it needs to be and not taking it to the drag strip; nor launching it at 15 psi off the line.
We're all adults. Just be prudent.
Couple of things:
If the juice seems to lose it's "Edge" it is often because the Allison will not take it.
If the EGT's are lower at a given point, it is partly due to less fuel. Timing can also drop EGT's. The Stealth has more aggressive timing in it.
As for peak EGT's, both the Stealth and OJ really get it on in the high HP race levels. Both will cross 1700
Amen brutha!!
I am packing this computer up in a couple hrs. I won't be posting much till I get to the lower 48. Truck stops have internet access right?
Have fun everyone.
Hey Mav, maybe we'll cross paths on your way down.. If you're taking highway 1 once you hit Cache Creek, I'm up/down from there to Chilliwack daily. Are you driving the 3500 deck truck?
Minn-kota
08-21-2003, 17:27
From what I was told, the Stealth increases line pressure to the Allison when it shifts instead of reducing power as the Juice does.
Originally posted by Minn-kota:
From what I was told, the Stealth increases line pressure to the Allison when it shifts instead of reducing power as the Juice does. No way !!!!!!
:rolleyes:
==================
That being said the owner has to make a decision, longevity or it's just the beginning of your journey ..... ;)
Edge undoubtedly has the consumer in mind ..... They directly interact with the life of the transmission ...... You may not appreciate the defueling but your tranny is what will thank you and your purse in the long run ..... If you want your investment in a truck to pay off, and are not looking to upgrade your tranny sooner then you expect, be prepared with the choices you make ......
Silent killer, you will not know till it's to late ...... Something to ponder ...... Chose wisely ......
Mac :D :D :D
My Hot Juice defuels too much while shifting. I've brought this to Edge's attention on more than one occasion. Their response was, "some trucks defuel more than others." The Juice is in total control and frankly, its too conservative shifting my truck.
Point is, the Quad puts more control back in the hands (foot) of the driver. I think I can do as good a job as the Juice in controlling how much power the tranny sees during a shift.
If a person is clueless and thinks he/she can run the truck WOT between every stop sign, then that person needs to leave the Juice on their truck and forget the Quad. Maybe the Quad requires more finesse than some drivers are willing to give.
The REAL control will be in the Attitude monitor. Till then we just run what Edge and Quad give us. Just might know more tomorrow...
The line psi is not increased on the Quad, BUT from what I gather there is a table in the ECM that handles trim solenoid index. It DOES do something as I can chirp second nice and hard with the Stealth, which is something none of the others really do.
Neither shift perfect if you ask me. Both have their strong and weak points. The Stealth tends to be a bit "loopy" at light throttle around town on my truck. The Juice has VERY pronounced let off and pick up at WOT in T/H mode.
We are back to the statement I made many months ago: "These trucks tend to be very individualistic"
rv the guy your gonna want to talk to is joe at suncoast.........tell him I sent ya. the defuel is for a reason you will figure it out.....the stop light to stop light guy is probably me :D finesslessdave
Minn-kota
08-21-2003, 22:02
Originally posted by kennedy:
The line psi is not increased on the Quad That's what Quad told me so I just thought I'd throw it out there since there was some talk on how the Stealth handled the shifts. I don't have one, just echoing the info I was given.
smile.gif
camstyn,
I am running over to Edmonton and then to Sweet Grass, MT. I'll cross there. I will maybe go over to MP's but he hasn't emailed me back yet. Then to Yellowstone and Mt. Rushmore and then to WI. Will stop and chat with a few of the MN boys on the way. Cashe Creek is alittle out of my path. Did I meet you at the 02' Rendevous? I will be driving my 01 GMC in my sig. I'll be pulling my 8.5 x 20 enclosed car trailer. Both truck and trailer are white. I weighed it today. Just over 18K gross weight. I am on a friends puter right now. Will check the board again on Sat. and I am on the road. Later u all.
More Power
08-21-2003, 22:45
MAV,
I sent an email to your hotmail account earlier today.....
MP
Got it..........will check with you when we get closer.
jcummins
08-22-2003, 05:12
Posted by Kennedy: 'The Juice has VERY pronounced let off and pick up at WOT in T/H mode. We are back to the statement I made many months ago: "These trucks tend to be very individualistic"'
My truck exactly, but for me both T/H and regular. Any idea WHY this individualistic trait exist?
sdaver,
Don't get your statement, "the defuel is there for a reason you'll figure it out."
I'm aware of why the Juice thinks it needs to defuel. Most Juice ownere do. Are you hinting at something different?
Bill Harper,
Truck pull in Loyal Saturday night. Good excuse to see what the Juice/Attitude and Stealth can do in person...
Jerry,
I believe the shifting issue has a lot to do with the TCC locking/unlocking, but am not certain. The Attitude should show slip speed and tell me more. The Tech 2 has the data, but IIRC, it's hard to calculate slip speed and it just gives the raw data...
WhiteDuramax
08-22-2003, 08:00
Are you going to pull Kennedy?
Yeah I plan on it. I wasn't going to because it is a "Stock" class for locals only and is a Basically a cheater class. All who enter run boxes etc. No ballast, no air bags (or air in them) etc. We had 1,2,3 Dmax last year (I was 3 on my skinny 235's) and I was perfectly happy being the guy behind the scenes for the winning trucks and taking a step back, BUT the trash talk and rumors are getting under my skin so...
Anyhow, I figure good advertising. Always wanted to see what my truck looks like on 285's ;)
Just hope my injector balance straightens out. I've had my eye on a couple since new. They tend to have bad spells from time to time, and looks like #6 is really under the weather at the moment. Will see what a bombardment of additive and fresh fuel does...
I think the absence of the defuel in other high hp programs is detrimental to a stock allison......that was the point :D dave
BowTieDmax
08-22-2003, 14:40
I've had the juice and then the hot juice since they came out and driving the truck with them is not only a blast but I would'nt enjoy the truck without it. And I am sure I sold more the a few juice boxs for egde by telling anyone I see at(gas stations, stores, etc.) that they just gotta have one. And proving that point by installing my box in there truck letting them drive mine. But like anything you get used to it. And the defueling was getting old. So I've bought the 215 quad box because I wanted to see what I was missing by not having the tranny protection. And all I can say is wow!!. Besides the extra power of the box, I really like the shifts and the full potentual of the motor. Yes I had planned on a tranny upgrade. But I have been watching to see whos is best. So In a few weeks I'll really get to see the motors full potentual after the ATS uprade. But here is my thoughts between the OJ & Quad.
* Qaud does not have the power down low that the juice does but The quad box comes alive with more go fast pedal.
* I really, really miss using the tow/haul button for power increases as I drive with the OJ. (Reg.mode level 2--tow/haul level 4)
*The rev limiter is not working on mine yet (2001 and Quad is working on it)
* Good thing is that so far they both stack well together
Bottom line *** I would recomend either one. tongue.gif
Well I'm going to give the Quad a try and compare with Juice. Just placed order for the "Tow" version and looking forward to being able to adjust for tire size (315/70R17's). Removed Juice for dealer visit yesterday and felt like I was driving a different truck. I've seen references to "stacking" ... assume this is running 2 boxes/modules together?
Anyone know if Michael Tomac is runnin the 13.?? track times in regular or Tow/Haul?
My truck still Seeeeeeems to run better in regular with the Hot, but it appears all that should know claim tow/haul is the way to go.
Billy
On Edit: No times or data to back this up, my truck just feels a little stronger in regular.
I'm planning to run the Stealth race program to see how it does with the extra RPM. I don't look for the RPM to move the HP peak up that much, just give us more head room.
On an Allison related note, I will say this: The Attitude controller from Edge will allow you to set the defuel 3 ways:
1) All locked shifts
2) Locked 4-5 only
3) No locked shifts
The Juice only defuels during locked shifts. The Attitude also does about a gazillion other things as well. The "No locked shifts" makes it shift VERY nice and crisp. My new 285's were chattering all through 2nd gear...
Bill Harper
08-22-2003, 20:54
John Kennedy,
I would love to come to the truck pulls on Saturday night, but I am pre-commited to go to the Packer Game. Hate to miss out cause I am really interested in getting the juice and would love to see how it works on your truck. Perhaps I will be able to see it some other time, I do a lot of traveling up north through Wausau to the Tomahawk, Phillips, and Minocqua area's. Thanks for the invite though, and great information.
Bill Harper
08-22-2003, 21:45
By the way, Does anyone know for sure when the Attitude controller is going to be available to the public?
Looks to be REALLY close for release of the Attitude. From what I am told the first out will be new combos as there will be some organization/tooling up for the alteration of existing units.
Greenwood WI has a pull next weekend as well.
jphn go ahead and get me one......you know what levels I want and you know how patient I am......you can be first I want to be second....hey we are going thru string cheese withdrawel..........elaine? are you taking care of it :D
i just got back from the track running one of the new quad programs that delivers the power lower down.the tune i have is the higher hp one but it really comes on much faster,a few kinks to work out yet but definately going in the right direction.i am definately interested in getting the edge upgrade as well,want to see if it will speed shifts up,but since mine has no defuel dont see how it can shift any faster than it does now,jk care to explain to me if and how it will shift faster when there is already no defuel....jess
John,
What gives? My 295's chatter through 3rd, depending on pavement surface of course. :D :D :D
Billy
Originally posted by Billy14:
John,
What gives? My 295's chatter through 3rd, depending on pavement surface of course. :D :D :D
Billy Yeah, but I've got a REAL truck! :D That sawed off thing you have is I believe 400# lighter... :D All in fun you know... On a serious note though, I've been watching a pair of suspect injectors since early on, and they look to be struggling as of late. If I leave with boost and start spinning, they'll BURN through 3rd. If I just stomp it, they don't break startto chatter till second and seem to hold pretty well in 3rd.
KingD,
Dunno, but there is night/day difference in shifting between the top dog Juice that I had and this one with the defuel off. You should see how it shifts when the TCC doesn't unlock at shift points! ;)
[ 08-23-2003, 07:40 AM: Message edited by: kennedy ]
Ooooh, that's gotta hurt. :D After my neighbor eased his 350 lb. rear on my tailgate last week snapping both cables and the gate slamming down on the rear bumper, I don't claim to have a real truck anymore. :rolleyes:
Billy
WhiteDuramax
08-24-2003, 10:49
Kennedy, how did the pull go???
well?????????????????????
Kennedy 283' Duramax
Eric Dietsche 275' 24V Dodge
Joel Dietsche 263' 1" 12V? Dodge
Rick Dietsche 258' 4" Duramax
Dave Clintsman 253' 7" 24V Dodge
Lenny Zawislan Jr. 250' 8" Duramax
Not one truck made it out the end in any class. I believe 294' was the longest pull IIRC which was done by a 2wd. This was a biting track.
My max speed acheived via GPS was 17.4 mph.
I did NOT finish under power. It hit an overboost code and shut me down. Need to work on that which is no problem.
Pulling in Greenwood (7 mi from Loyal) Friday 7 PM.
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