Pin removal from ECM

[chuntag95]

Okay, I am working on the high idle switch. I have decided that there must be something wrong with, the wire, the pin or the solder joint to it. I bought extra pins just in case, so I was going to run a new wire and pin. Now, I can't seem to get the darn thing out. :( Anyone have an idea? For something that is supposed to be simple, I sure am fighting it really hard.
Thanks,

[Kennedy]

The little plastic pin aligner "fingers" actually "barb" the pins in place once inserted. Are you certain the pin went COMPLETELY in?

[chuntag95]

JK,

I am pretty sure. It was all the way down with the other pins and I couldn't pull it out. This just doesn't make any sense that I get nothing if I am getting voltage at the pin.

Regards,

[Kennedy]

In order to install/release the pins, the translucent cover should be removed. This will allow the "fingers" or tabs to be spread and allow the pin to pass.

[mdrag]

Chris,

What type of switch are you using for the ECM & 12V wires? Have you checked the switch itself for proper operation? Not meaning to be a smarta$$, but you are connecting the high idle terminal to the ECM and not the TCM correct?

mdrag

[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: mdrag ]</p>

[chuntag95]

JK,

Thanks for the info. Hope I don't need it.

Mdrag,

I am using a 12V automotive SPST switch with LED when the load side is powered. I checked it with a DMM and it seems good. I had to remove the TCM to get to the ECM. I am glad it has Allison on the case or I might have done just what you are saying. (No offense taken, sometimes it is the simple answer.) I had the instructions right in front of me and double and triple checked. Don't want to spring for a new ECM or TCM. I guess I could do a continuity check from the pin to the switch and verify the line is good. If it's not, then try and pull off the blue cover and get the pin out and put in a new line. Would adding some dielectric grease help out the contact on the pin? I always thought dielectric means does not conduct. It looks like the hole in the pin is larger than the existing, but I verified I have the correct part number. That's why I am worried about the actual pin to post connection. Thoughts? :confused:

[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: chuntag95 (Chris) ]</p>

[Kennedy]

Hey Chris,

Elementary issue here. WAIT for a few seconds for things to work themselves out.

Note: there is NO standby rpm, and I quite often need to wait up to 2 minutes for it to engage. Basically, switch it on and push the set button, then wait...

[mdrag]

Chris,

It sounds like you've checked/double checked most everything. Checking the wire for continuity is a good idea, and consider trying a simple toggle switch instead of your LED lighted switch.

I did NOT notice that the added terminal was any different than the existing ones when I did mine, and if the terminal is not making good contact dielectric grease won't correct it. Could it be that you ordered the correct terminal and received the wrong one? Consider checking to see if your dealer has another terminalin stock to compare.

One other thought on this - could it be that your truck needs to be programmed with the TECH2 for the high idle to work? I don't recall this happening before...

Good luck, I hope you get this figured out.

mdrag

ON EDIT: Kennedy has a good point. On my '01, I seldom have to wait more than a few seconds for the high idle to kick on in the lowest setting - but the two higher speeds can be delayed.

[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: mdrag ]</p>

[chuntag95]

JK and Mdrag,

When I was working on it last night, I gave it 30 seconds or so to respond. I will try giving it a couple of minutes. That will be a long wait. I have some extra pins already. The numbers I saw were in hoots instructions GM#12084913. I got 4 of them just in case. I also got for of the ones with the same number except the last digit is a 2 instead of a 3. They look the same except the tabs on the wire end are longer, I guess for bigger wires. I have a simple toggle that I can put on as well. At this point I will try about anything.

Thanks again for the input,

[AKDmax]

Here's another one for ya. I have to push my set button twice before the high idle kicks in. Usually there isn't much of a lag time betwenn the second button push and idle kick. Give it a shot, who knows. Sounds like you have done everything right if you followed the destructions.

[chuntag95]

No High Idle 1 - Chris 0
Okay, I removed the switch and checked the voltage at the pin. 14 Volts. I push the set button and wait 5 minutes. Nothing. I push the set button twice and wait 5 minutes. Nothing. I push the resume button and the engine bogs down, the battery light flashes for just a second and then the idle returns to normal.
I pull the connector, make up a new pin and wire and install. (Thanks for the tip on the blue cover JK.) Now I get the bog when I hit the set button twice or the resume. I have to take it in due to the pulsing idle, so I will ask the tech to program it for high idle while he's got it.
I have an auto xray scanner. Can it see the PTO set up parameter or just the Tech II?

Thanks for all the suggestions. :( :confused: :(

[Maverick]

Are you positive you are in C71 ? Sounds like maybe you are plugged into another port. These are the other pins that are used with a factory installed PTO.

Pin 71--Lt GRN--PTO enable switch
Pin 56--Lt BLU--Engine shutdown signal
Pin 13--Yellow--PTO status (feedback)
Pin 37--PPL--PTO relay engage

Pin # 12191489

[ 10-30-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

[chuntag95]

Mav,
Yes, I am sure. I have checked that 4 times at least. I also got out my manual and made sure I was on C1. I have a scanner, so just for fun I pluged it in. One of the 9 items I can look at is Power Take off. It says it is not active. I don't know if that means it needs to be programed or if it means there is not power to pin 71. I guess if I get some time, I will hook the power back up and check out what the scanner says then. I was hoping I could see the set up but like I said, there were only 9 parameters that it showed. I had 30 or so on my wife Expedition.
Any scanner savy people got any input?

[Maverick]

Check out this link

https://www.gmupfitter.com/secure/html/publicat/bull/bull53.pdf

I would print this off and keep for future ref. Lots of info that may help you now. It is 28 pages. Thanks Mdrag.

I also noticed the part # is different for the pin. I got this number: 12191489 This may be the number for the 80 pack of pins and not an individual one. Can someone confirm?

[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

[chuntag95]

I saved it in my ever growing folder of truck manuals. I also printed it to take to the stealer so they don't have to look it up and use their paper. Maybe they won't charge me since I will have it in for idle issues.

[chuntag95]

Mav,

I just noticed the list of pins. The actual pin I used was not the number you gave, but it was snug and fit. Now, about the pinout, from what you have
Pin 71--Lt BLU--PTO engine shutdown signal - This is where I am applying the 14 volts. Is that wrong?
Pin 22--Lt GRN--PTO enable switch - Is this where I should be applying the voltage?
Pin 31--Dk GRN--High idle switch signal - Same as set button on cruise control?
Pin 52--Yellow--PTO status (feedback) - What type of signal is this? Does it light up an LED or is it an analog voltage or what?
Pin 78--PPL--PTO relay engage - Don't have one, so don't need to engage it.

Where did you get all of this, from the schematic in that file? I really want to get this working, but seem to be at a dead end.

Thanks,

[chuntag95]

Mav,

You listed the pins for the 8.1 L gasser. Whew! :eek: I thought I had really screwed up there for a minute. What I did "should" enable the high idle, but it doesn't. I wish I had someone with a Tech 2 around. :rolleyes: Okay, I searched for the part number you gave and couldn't find it on a couple different sites, so I can't tell you if it's good, but it appears not to be. I did go out and hook up my scanner and the power take off is flickering between enabled and not enabled. I even hooked up straight to the battery with no change. That is the problem, but it is too late to pull the connector and change out the pin tonight. I will try again tomorrow and use the scanner to monitor. If I can stop it from changing it's mind, I think I have it whipped.

[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: chuntag95 (Chris) ]</p>

[Kennedy]

You know mine went through a spell like you describe, but I cannot remember what it was. I changed pins etc. Can't seem to remember how I resolved it though :confused: May well have been in the ECM programming for PTO. IIRC it had to do with the relay set positions...

[chuntag95]

JK,

I will look, but I didn't think I would have a relay since I can't have a PTO on a 2500 or are you talking about the ECM programming? I edited my earlier post as I used my scanner and the PTO is flickering between not enabled and enabled. It's like it can't make up it's mind. I will change pins tomorrow and use the scanner to monitor what's up. If it still is doing it with a different pin, I guess I will give until I can get to the dealer and have them program it. If you remember how you fixed it PLEASE let me know. My email is my id without the Chris in parenthesis at attbi dot com.

Thanks again,

[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: chuntag95 (Chris) ]</p>

[chuntag95]

Just a question, are all of the ECM pin locations numbered like mine, i.e. molded into the housing? Or is this an extra feature they provide for us Aggies? :D :rolleyes: ;)

[Maverick]

Chris,
Opps.....my bad :( Sorry about that. I knew I was on the right page but didn't go down far enough to gather my correct info. I corrected my post.

I wish I knew why you're having trouble. I was done in 45 min. Did mine just like the directions said off this web site. Hope that link helps you anyway....especially with the dealer.

[mdrag]

Chris,

Here are the part numbers I have for the ECM terminals:

12084913 for QUANTITY 5
12084912 for QUANTITY 10

They are the same terminal, just differnt #s in the package. When I did the high idle, I ordered the terminals from the dealer with the part number ending in 913. When I added the dual alts, I ordered the part # ending with 912 from gmpartsdirect.com

C1 71 is the correct terminal for the high idle switch. C1 is BLUE and C2 is RED. The C1/C2 connectors on the ECM, and the TCM connector on my truck have the terminal positions numbered - and I would expect this to be same for everyone.

mdrag

[chuntag95]

Mdrag,

I have both of those pins too. I figured everyone's was numbered, but was trying to put some humor in this as it is driving me nuts. Like Mav said, "45 minutes and I was done is what everyone says." I, on the otherhand, have close to 8 hours in this and still nothing. I dropped about 100 bucks to update my scanner, get new switches, etc. Still no luck. I am just about relagated to taking it in unless JK can remember what he did to fix his when he had this problem.
I keep telling myself that truck mods are fun ..... especially when they finally work.

[ 10-30-2002: Message edited by: chuntag95 (Chris) ]</p>

[Kennedy]

When I said relays I was referring to relays as seemn on the Tech II.

FWIW, I have my stock ECM programmed for 900 and 1100 rpm, but my reflash ECM is set at default. It works just fine, so maybe if you have updates to do, I'd try them first.

[chuntag95]

JK,
I had all the updates done a month ago when it was in with the leaking injector cups. I went to the web site and it said I was good. I guess I will have to have the dealer look at it. Still can't remember exactly what fixed yours?
Chris

[mdrag]

Chris,

I noticed your reply on the FAST IDLE topic in the 2500HD/3500 HD Trucks & Drivetrain forum:

http://forum.62-65-dieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=004172

If you remove the CLEAR cover over the terminals (release the plastic tabs at each end), you can add and remove a terminal easily without trimming or bending any tabs on the added terminal. I've never modified the terminals that I've added, and IIRC, those tabs are there to insure the terminal maintains it's position for good contact...

I wonder if that could be your problem - maybe the terminal is pushing backward when it makes contact and not engaging, and then slips forward into place when you remove the ECM connector to inspect it...so it appears that it is in the correct position. Just a thought.

You are correct that using thinner wire makes it easier.

mdrag

[chuntag95]

Mdrag,

I did have more problems before I was removing the cover. I didn't try it with the tabs after I was removing the cover, so I might have made a false assumption. It has happened maybe once before. :rolleyes:
Okay, I just spent the last hour and a half working on this again. Here is what I found. When I replaced the original/old pin and wire, my scanner toggles the PTO from enabled and not enabled very clearly now with no flickering. I take this to mean that I have the switch, wire and pin in correctly. I still only get the engine bog when I hit set twice or resume once. I am convinced it has to be the ECM needs to be programmed. I am taking it in next Monday to get the idle pulse looked at, so I will give them a copy for bulliten 53 to program it for me while they have it. I'll show them the switch so they can check it out. Sounds good right? :D :( :eek:
Thanks to all who helped out with comments and things to check. I'll let you know if reprogramming works. How I wish JK didn't live on the other side of the country or someone else had a tech 2.

[ 10-30-2002: Message edited by: chuntag95 (Chris) ]</p>

[Kennedy]

I'd try to hit set and walk away once. If I start mine cold and engage the fast idle, I can get back inside and then some before it kicks in some times. Once it has engaged it isn't as slow, but it is almost as if you have to let it wake up...

[chuntag95]

JK,

I'll try that in the morning when it's cold. I will push and just walk away. I wish I could understand why it bogs down. I did a data capture to see if it showed anything, but I haven't uploaded it to the compter to look at it yet.

I have nothing to lose.

[chuntag95]

JK,
Tried your idea this morning. I cranked the truck with the remote start and walked away. Went to crank the wife's truck cause it wouldn't stay running with the remote start. (got to figure that out) Anyway, it died. :( So I thought that maybe it started to idle up and the remote start shut it off. It's the only thing I could think of, so I cranked it with the key and hit it the set twice and walked away. Nothing. :( When I came out to get in, I hit the resume just to see (had to buckle in the kid) and it bogged down, but nothing after that.

Any ideas?

[Kennedy]

I think it will require taking a look with the Tech 2 to see just where the relays are set internally and make sure all is correct...

[mdrag]

Chris,

A few more ideas:

1) When I use my remote start, not all the 12V circuits are active until AFTER I put the key in and turn the ignition to start. The circuit I tapped into for my high idle switch does not work when I remote start, until after I turn the ignition key on. I could find an unswitched 12V source, but I'm satisfied the way it is.

2) How long ago did you have the remote start installed? After I had my aftermarket alarm/remote start installed - there were multiple codes set that required a trip to the dealer to clear. It would be worthwhile to get your truck checked for codes and check the high idle settings.

mdrag

[chuntag95]

Mdrag,

I put the alarm in myself this weekend. I have no codes or at least none that my scanner is picking up.

As far as the power from the remote start for the high idle, I haven't even got that far. I can't get the high idle to run with the key starting it. One thing I can say is I am pretty sure I got all of the ingition and acc circuits powered. There were 4 in all and it was a pain adding extra relays. The person who installed my wife's did not get the ac circuit so it doesn't cool or heat the truck when it is remote started. I am going into it soon to try and fix that.

If you would like, I can give you a list of wires in the steering columb that need power so you can fix yours.

My current situation is the high idle switch turns the PTO on and off per the scan tool. It only feeds back the enabled signal. When I hit the set or resume buttons on the cruise, the engine bogs down for a second and then returns to normal idle. I am going to take it to the dealer and get them to look at the set up. Hopefully that will get it fixed. Then I will see about hooking it into the remote start. I still don't have the horse. tongue.gif

[Kennedy]

I'm kinda fuzzy on this, but there are several relays that may need to be enabled/disabled etc.

I will say, watch out as the PTO max rpm defaults to like 5,XXX rpm and it can get a little "hairy" if you miss something when setting up...

[chuntag95]

:eek: 5000! I don't want to see anywhere close to that on my tach. Now I am worried. I was going to give the dealer the instructions and let them set it up. Man, I wish I had more faith in these guys. Well, it they blow it up, I guess I have to start crawling the GM ladder then. Hopefully it won't happen. :(

[chuntag95]

I took the truck into the dealer yesterday to look at the pulsing idle. I have been smelling fuel, so I asked them to check for leaks from the work they did on the injector seals. I gave them a copy of the upfitters bulliten and went through it with the service writter and showed him the high idle switch. Now, just hurry up and wait to see what happenes. :(