Advantages of Synthetic Oils vs. Regular

[Rebel_Horseman]

I've done a search and there's enough information on there to a monk go into a mental institution. Can anyone tell me what the advantages are for switching over to synthetic oils, specifically engine oil? I'm running Rotella right now and that's what many of the old-school guys have used since before written history began (well not really but it sounded good). I've been thinking about switching to Mobil-1 or something similar. Why would I want to incurr the added expense of full synthetic oil? Will I get more power from it? Long engine life? Better fuel mileage? Lower emissions? Just a warm fuzzy feeling? Anything at all?

Thanks,

Reb [><]

[KISMIF]

Ok somebody jump in if I mess up, that said.

Synthetic oil should decrease friction and endure heat better than Dino.

You should get longer engine life, perhaps better mileage and easier cold weather starts.

-KISMIF

[chuntag95]

In addition to KISMIF, the warm fuzzy happens when something bad happens. Synthetic will stand up to those "I thought it was going to blow" situations a lot better. It ain't impervious to everything, but it is better. Will you ever need it? :confused: I did once and it saved me the cost of an engine. All I had to do was replace the toasted gaskets and that sold me. The engine is still running 70K miles later and not burning any oil (which is amazing for a 33 year old car period). :eek: :D

[GMCTRUCK]

Synthetic costs alot more... oh wait you said advantage to synthetic. Never mind. tongue.gif

[TraceF]

I go with GMCTRUCK on this, as I have said in various other threads- syn is better in extreme heat, and extreme cold, especially the latter. With a 10 qt crankcase and proper change interval I think the money is wasted.

[a bear]

My vote goes to dino. Except in the diff. Besides my engines outlast the vehicle anyway. Usually trade them in after about 200-250 thousand. Once went over 300 w/dino and saw the truck on the road 2 years later. Unless you plan on keeping one longer than this, I can't see the point.

[JEBar]

tend to agree with GMCtruck .... I change oil & filter every 5,000 miles, use dino. Do not want longer oil change intervals which synthetic products often claim. Have a Blazer with 218,000 that doesn't require any added between changes. Could quote other personal vehicles of several types with same type record but no need to take up the space here. If we ever run out of dino oil we will all have to change, till then see no sense in changing what works and what the maker designed the engine for........Jim

[kerry witherspoon]

Well i use transend in my transmission a big difference over dex 3. Use synthetic gear oil and dino presently in the engine but will switch to synthetic at 40,000 km I bought my 2002 duramax as my last truck i tow a fith wheel and a boat at the same time. I am a heavy duty mechanic and oil grease are the best and cheapest protection and momy we can spend.pay now or pay latter,i seen to many engines burn up with lack of clean oil,air and fuel.

[dmaxstu]

Until I installed the deep pan and put Transynd in the tranny the transmission temp would sometimes go over 200 degrees. But this past summer going over the N.California mountain during 104 degree heat pulling the TT the engine and transmission were both the same temperature between 180 and 190 and never changed unless I forgot to turn on T/H then the transmission temp would creep up. With tow/haul turned on it never went over 190. I also use Mobil1 synthetic in the engine and have that warm and fuzzy feeling about that. Stu

[TxDoc]

From Mobil 1:


What is a synthetic?

Conventional oils come from crude oil that is pumped from the ground. Crude oil is made up of a twisted and jumbled mass of carbon atoms that form chains and rings of different sizes and shapes. Long chains of carbon atoms produce a thick viscous fluid that flows slowly. Shorter chains produce fluid that flows more readily.

In an oil refinery, crude oil is separated into various stocks. These become the basis for lubricating oils and fuels. Thick tangled masses of carbon chains become asphaltic materials used in roofing tar and road work. Very short chains and ring compounds of carbon are volatile and can be refined to produce gasoline and other solvents.

While petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur, reactive hydrocarbons and other materials cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and may end up in motor oil base stocks.

All motor oils are made up of base oils and additives. In general, fully synthetic motor oils contain non-conventional, high-performance fluids, such as polyalphaolefins (PAOs). Semi-synthetic oils (also called "blends") usually use a small percentage of non-conventional, high-performance fluids in combination with conventional oil.

To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1

[mdrag]

dmaxstu,

Just so there is no confusion, Mobil 1 synthetic is NOT the correct oil for our trucks. The correct Mobil synthetic motor oil to use is Mobil Delvac 1 (CG-4, CH-4, CI-4, SL rated) in the Dmax. The CI-4 is the newest API rating. You can also use Delvac 1 in your gassers if you so desire. The owners manual calls for API CG-4 CH-4 rated oils for the Dmax.

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: mdrag ]</p>

[dmaxstu]

Mdrag
Thank you for pointing that out I forgot the delvac. I defenitely have been using the Mobil1Delvac 5W-40 I use it in my Honda EU2000i generators as well. Geo Morrison turned me onto doing that.Stu

[TraceF]

I have extensive experience as a Fleet/Commercial/Industrial/PCMO lubricants marketer and I believe Exxon/Mobil is forthcoming and accurate to the best of my knowledge in the information copied above and I consider Exxon/Mobil a leader in the industry in question.

I personally choose and use Delvac 1300.

Having said that- do not take any part of the above publication excerpts out of perspective.

Many fleets extend drain intervals but most of the large ICE fixed applications and many of the rolling stock applications utilize oil analysis extensively, change filters routinely at set intervals, and have a lot of reasons to do both that are not economically practical in our applications.

The average OTR tractor has 48-60 quarts in the crankcase. As they tick up the miles (or hours) they stop in their main or remote service facilities for everything from needed repairs to routine service. I know one 48 state carrier with over 60 service and dispatch facilities.

Oil samples are drawn, usually by a suction tube inserted through the dipstick tube (drain cocks tend to skew test results with silicon) and filters are changed.

The goal is to reduce, even if only marginally, overall operating costs and to detect at the earliest possible time, potential component or system failures. Oil analysis, filters, etc still have cost associated but over the long run, working with sometimes hundreds of tractors and refer units, a company can save a significant amount of $ over a year and a tractor engine can run upwards of $25k to rebuild depending on how bad the damage.

I have seen engines in cam hoes with 120 gallon crankcases. Fixed applications are even easier to manage and oil samples and filters are changed at set hour intervals. Operating conditions are even easier to control for obvious reasons.

In either example oil analysis finds problematic conditions besides elevated wear metal which could point to any number of issues. It can find water, glycol, unburned fuel, silicon, amd even occasionally contaminants not discernable but potentially damaging (vandalism or sabotage).

Practically speaking, with a 10 quart crankcase and proper change intervals, a DMax engine should easily go a quarter million miles with no problems and probably will go significantly farther, perhaps as much as 400k or more as long as other systems (fuel filter, air filter, coolant system, etc) are adequately maintained. The engines are HD but don't forget the effects of the higher combustion ratio on the internals and the typically harder life (towing, etc).

As I said earlier, synthetic is advantageous in extreme cold and extreme heat, cold because it flows quicker on start up and heat because of the sheer strength. I would not run it any longer in our application and at almost 4X the cost this is money that we will never get back in terms of longevity.

99% of the OTR fleets are running on conventional motor oil. How do I know this? Synthetic oil has so little market share and much of it goes to the PCMO class.

I posted this a few weeks ago in a different thread:

When I sold and trained others to sell lubricants we used to make the analogy that comparing synthetic base stock to mineral base stock is like comparing a bucket of BB's to a bucket of sticks and rocks. The reason the synthetic stock makes a better lubricant and gives better heat and cold protection and performance is because the molecules have been rearranged in a fashion that allows many more of them to be in a given area, between bearings and races for example. The formulations are also designed to be "sticky". They adhere to metal better than mineral base stock.

I use synthetic lubricant in my rear diff because I tow a heavy load and the diff doesn't have a cooler. I live in Florida so cold weather protection is no real concern. The engine, with 10 quarts of premium quality CI lube is regulated very well in terms of operating temp and therefore I chose not to spend the extra $ on synthetic, I don't believe the synthetic offers any significant benefit in this application.

Here is an interesting article from a Merck publication:

http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2002/november/lubes.htm

Good luck with whatever you choose.


smile.gif

[ 02-02-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]

[ 02-02-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]

Dam* I can't spell today.

[ 02-02-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]</p>

[ccds]

good article TraceF...I must of missed it the first time you posted it...

thanks

smile.gif

[a bear]

Trace F,
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Due to temperatures not being an issue Mobil engineering recommends we run Delvac 1300 in all our diesel engines (mostly 871 GM) and Mobil Pegasus 805 in our natural gas engines. (Wauk ;Cat; White; Cooper) Both oils are non synthetic and are NEVER changed. Engine overhauls are based on oil analysis which are taken during servicing of filters, centrifuge etc. Overhauls are usually done at no less than 30000 hrs. Often not needed. These engines are often run at full RPM @ 95% rated HP. However we do run synthetic lube in high temp. applications (gear boxes, etc.)
Since extended drains are not recommended for the DMAX (per GM recommendation)and temperatures are not an issue here, I too run dino with syn in the rear and service @ regular intervals. Let the mileage speak for itself.
I do plan on installing a bypass filter at next oil change though. This will be of benefit with minimal cost.
Which oil are you running are plan on running in your transmission? My thoughts are still up in the air on this one. :rolleyes:

[TraceF]

a bear-

In the past I have used Dex III with great success. My fathers oldest friend has a son- now my friend for over 30 years who runs one of the oldest transmission shops in Daytona.

They will tell you it's temperature that ruins the transmission fluid and consequently the transmission. I trust them completely.

Transmission fluid is basically a complex hydraulic fluid that is heavily additized. The additives in synthetic Dex are the same as mineral Dex for the most part.

I am pulling over 10k# and so far my trans temp has never been above 190 if the GM gauge is good. If it were running 220-230 or more with any consistency I would run Mobil synthetic but again, I don't think there is anything to gain here at these temps.

The cooler plays a big role here. With the GVWR rating of the Allison it should wear the truck out if maintained properly.

Change the fluid at the proper interval and watch the color and smell in between to gaurd from overheating. Don't forget the transmission filter change at 6 or 7,000 to get the chunks out then change it at regular intervals.

These are my opinions only.

Good luck.

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