2003 DMax fuel filler "LOW SULFUR DIESEL"?

[Chris N5CWM]

I test drove a 2003 GMC 2500HD the other day and
we had to put fuel in it; seems GM only puts 5
gallons in? The truck only had 10 miles on it and
the fuel gauge was BELOW the E! Inside the fuel
filler door is a decal saying "low sulfur diesel
ONLY". Just curious since there is no "advertised"
low sulfur diesel in Texas that I know of. There
was not an owners' manual in the glovebox so I
could not research what GM specs as the correct
fuel. I sure hope that the fuel system is more
flexible than that!
Anyone have any actual technical info on any
changes that GM did to the 2003's fuel system?

[IndigoDually]

As far as I know all "on road" fuel is low sulfur. Some fuel companies sell a fuel with a higher sulfur content for "off road" machinery usage only. This is why many people are using additives(especially in older vehicles) due to the low sulfur and lack of lubricity of the newer fuel formulations. The seals in older injection pumps need these additives due to the changes in the fuel. Just like the lead in gasoline.

John

[csimo]

My '02 says the same thing. Sulfur ratings aren't normally posted on the pump but all "on road" diesel fuel sold in the US must be "low sulfer". Keep in mind that our (US and Canada) idea of low sulfur fuel is nowhere near what the rest of the world considers low sulfur. Most of the world has much better diesel fuel than we do. Ultra low sulfur diesel fuel will be coming to the US in the next few years and will put us on par with the rest of the world.

The Cetane rating is the most important number to me. I personally use Amoco "premier" diesel fuel that's rated at 50 Cetane most of the time.

I think the Diesel Supplement calls for a minumum of 45 Cetane, and 50 is recommended. Around here the Cetane rating is seldom on the pump, and many stations are selling fuel in the 40 - 43 Cetane range.

[ 07-23-2002: Message edited by: csimo ]</p>

[odoh]

Hmm, I thot CA was the only low sulfur state. I recall when it happend, the interstate drivers wouldn't fuel up. Almost everyone were tanking up just outside the borders. It caused the seals in my VW injector pump to fail ~ the state reimbursed all fuel related repair costs.

If low sulfur is universal, why would one see a slight mpg drop w/CA fuels? ~ odoh

[MudNurI]

If you all remember correctly- I'm the one that had my truck go into limp mode because of my fuel filter being clogged. I ran HIGH SULFUR fuel for the first 22,000 miles- well, probably 80% of those miles were on HIGH SULFUR. Of course, I didn't have any tests performed on the filter to prove it was the fuel- but my tech said "think John ever puts the loader's fuel in this?"....

At our shop- 5 diesels have ran this same fuel, same dealer, same tank same everything. The D/A is the ONLY one that has had a fuel filter problem. cummings, powerstroke's, and an older Chevy diesel run this same fuel, and have for a few years. I'm not sure if those trucks have the "low sulfur sticker"..but after shelling out the $$ for the fuel filter at the dealerships, you can be guaranteed I only run low sulfur now. It costs me another .29 per gallon, but those darn filters are pretty expensive. redface.gif

[SledZep]

Inthe "fuel injectors not warranteed" thread there was mention that our filters are 2 micron VS 5 for many other diesels because of our common rail injection (credit to whomever posted)
Perhaps that is how your filter became clogged??

[DURA-MAX3]

All states are low sulpher content fuel for on road diesel. High sulpher content fuel is off road diesel and if you get caught running it on the highway get your banker on the phone because the fine is very, very steep. It is all supposed to be low sulpher in the next few years, we'll see. Hope this helped.

[Dmax son]

Some of California diesel is ultra low sulfer. With some certane levels above 53. Mostly at arco stations

Bryan

[csimo]

Dura-Max3 is correct. There are federal limits on sulfur in diesel fuel for on road use. There is no such thing as "high" sulfur fuel for road use in the US except Alaska which is exempt.

On road diesel fuel is federally limited by the EPA to a maximum of 500ppm of sulfur (except Alaska).

Off road diesel fuel is "specified" by the American Society for Testing and Materials (no EPA regs. on off road) to contain a maximum of 5000ppm of sulfur.

The proposed Tier II EPA regulations that should go into effect in 2004 mandate maximum on road diesel content to 80ppm.

European Union = 50ppm max.
Sweeden = 10ppm max.

California may have some ultra low sulfur fuel. I don't dispute that and don't know their regs.

The purpose of sulfur in diesel fuel is lubricity. Lubricity is one of the key components of diesel fuel and a fuel low in lubricity will damage your injection pump pretty fast (just one take will do severe damage). When you remove sulfur you must add other products to improve the lubricity of the fuel. Biodiesel has no sulfur and is high in lubricity.

High sulfur fuel will burn just fine in the Duramax although you will be in violation of the EPA compliance for sulfur dioxides, nitrous oxides and several other exhaust contaminates.

Sulfur is an element and is extremely small. It would not contribute to a blocked fuel filter.

[mattb5150]

My 02 Dmax has the same low sulphur fuel only sticker. I was wondering if other people outside of CA trucks had them. I know that CA has lower sulphur fuel than the rest of the nation but we'll all be the same soon.

Matt B.

[JEBar]

CSIMO .... are the current D'maxes set to operate smoothly on the 2004 you mentioned? :confused:

[csimo]

JEBar,

The Duramax doesn't care if there's sulfur in the fuel or not, if it's high, low, or ultra low sulfur fuel. The "Low Sulfur" sticker is for emmissions control purposes. If you use a high sulfur fuel the emmissions will exceed the EPA certification for the truck.

The purpose of sulfur in diesel fuel is lubricity (and it's hard to refine out since it naturally occurs). Primarily to lubricate your injection pump. It is possible to get sulfur content so high that it causes mechanical problems, but I don't think you will run into such fuel today.

If the fuel you use has proper lubricity properties then you're OK. The big problem is trying to find the specs. on the fuel you use.

I know the specs. of the Amoco Premier Diesel fuel that I regularly use and try and buy it as much as possible. There are other brands that are just as good or better I'm sure, but I haven't investigated them.

There are many properties of diesel fuel that are very important to our Duramax engines. The Cetane rating is sometimes published on the pump and our Duramax engines call for a minimum of 45 Cetane and 50 Cetane is highly recommended. The lubricity properties of the fuel are rarely published at the pump and is every bit as important as Cetane. You just have to go with a brand you trust is my way.

Again, the only lubrication that your injection pump gets is from the fuel. Low lubricity fuel will kill the pump.

Here's a link to the fuel I use (yours may be worse, the same, or even better):
http://www.bpdirect.com/pdfs/Amoco_Premier_Diesel_Fuel_LS.pdf

[ 07-24-2002: Message edited by: csimo ]</p>

[JEBar]

CISMO .... most of the time I fill up at a BP convenience store which is less than a year old and appears to sell a high volume of diesel. I believe that Amoco and BP are now the same company. I would assume they pump much the same fuel at all their stations. :cool:

[Derek M]

BP bought out Arco a couple years back. Dunno how Amoco plays in the mix.

[Chris N5CWM]

Thanks for the good replies.

I found this site to have good
detailed information:

http://www.itow.org/fuelguide.htm

[csimo]

British Petroleum (BP) owns both ARCO and AMOCO. Kinda funny (maybe sad?) that AMOCO (The AMerican Oil COmpany) is now British owned.

[tempestman]

The other day I was watching the history chanel and they were talking about the piplines used to pump fuel across the country and they says all fuel goes in to the same pipe. So they Pump a some gasoline for a while some jet fuel for a while and diesel ect. They also said each company puts fuel in and takes fuel out but not always there own so all fuel is equal except for additives that are added after it is taken out of the pipe line.

[cat320]

So if your are running a duramax off road for a long time and are using the off road fuel high sulfer content that you will have a problem?

[csimo]

"So if your are running a duramax off road for a long time and are using the off road fuel high sulfer content that you will have a problem?"

Yes and no. First off your Duramax is not rated to run high sulfur fuel. You would be in violation of the EPA requirements, and allthough a sulfur molecule is very small, they are abrasive in large quantities (over 2500ppm). Our Bosch high pressure common rail injection systems are more likely to incur abrasion problems from fuel that is very high in sulfur.

Reality is that the off road fuel is PROBABLY not that high in sulfur to begin with, but it could be.

The other thing to consider is that the Duramax is sold in Alaska. Alaska is exempt from our "low sulfur" requirements in the lower 48 states. I'm not aware of any problems up there, and I don't think GM makes any changes for an Alaska bound vehicle.

If I were in Alaska, or using off road fuel I would use a good fuel additive every fill up.

[FightinTXag]

Tempestman is right. Just because you bought fuel at Exxon doesn't mean Exxon refined it. The station is free to buy fuel from whomever they want. Your Exxon station may be buying fuel from Chevron/Texaco, or Shell, or Phillips. There are even companies like Valero that only refine and then sell to retailers. The individual refineries have contracts with the individual retailers promising to have so much fuel available for them to purchase. If there's a problem and the plant shuts down or doesn't meet production, they have to buy fuel from their competitors in order to honor their contracts. Most of the discounters like Racetrack or Sams don't keep contracts and purchase fuel from whoever has a surplus and can sell the cheapest. However, if one of the plants shuts down and fuel becomes more scarce in the region and prices go up, they will likely be out of regular unleaded as the refiners are scrambling to meet their contractual demands. If there isn't any refining industry in the area then the pipelines come into play and the only difference between fuel is the additives they put in after it's loaded onto the tanker truck. I'm a pipe stress engineer for Fluor Daniel, which is an engineering and construction company specializing in energy and chemicals. Our Houston office is focused primarily on refineries.

[OilMan]

Plus, when petroleum products are transported down pipelines, they are pumped without anything separating the different products from each other. The receiving end just mixes in the very small quanity of contaminated product with whichever product is the lesser grade.
Ever wonder where "quality control" becomes important?

[Amianthus]

Flour Daniel, eh? Ever heard of Chart Industries? Them guys are my primary client. I'm the AI for them. Small world.

[csimo]

From our buddies Click and Clack:
http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/2000/June/12.html

Dear Tom and Ray:


A few months ago, I pulled into my local Exxon station to fill 'er up. I noticed a large tanker truck apparently delivering gas to the station's underground tanks. But there were no signs on the truck that suggested it was an Exxon truck, or that it was delivering fuel for Exxon. I wrote a letter to Exxon's headquarters asking the same question, and they answered back by saying "baddabeep, baddaboop, yamma lamma ding dong." Do you guys know the answer? -- Cy

Ray: It's funny you mention your response from Exxon, Cy. They seem to have done for public relations what Linda Tripp has done for friendship. We've found them less than responsive, too.

Tom: Fortunately, the Mobil side of the new Exxon-Mobil was happy to answer our question.

Ray: Exxon franchisees have several options for getting gasoline to their stations. They can have Exxon deliver it, in which case it comes in a large truck with the word "Exxon" plastered on the side. Or they can pick it up themselves, in which case the truck might not say anything on it.

Tom: Or it might say "Acme Milk Farms" on it if the gas station owner borrowed the truck from his neighbor, the dairy farmer.

Ray: Actually, franchisees often own groups of stations. And if they own a number of stations, they usually find it more economical to own a truck and distribute the gasoline themselves. They make the pickup arrangements with Exxon, and they pull right up to Exxon's tap at the refinery and get the same gas and additives that come in the Exxon truck.

Tom: And what's to stop them from going to Acme Milk Farms and filling up their underground tanks with 2 percent or skim? "We have ways of keeping close tabs on our franchisees," says an Exxon-Mobil spokesperson. She wouldn't disclose its monitoring methods, but did say that Exxon franchisees are absolutely required to use Exxon gasoline, and that they could lose their franchise if they were found to be buying gas from Gabe's Gas-a-Go-Go.

Ray: Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with Gabe's. But since Exxon makes a lot of money by requiring franchisees to buy gas from them, they have a powerful incentive to make sure you're getting Exxon gas from your local Exxon station.

[csimo]

Here's some info from EXXON about diesel fuel that pertains to this discussion.

Full FAQ is a great read at: http://www.exxon.com/exxon_gas/web-faqs-exxon.html#diesel12


Why don't I just use Diesel Fuel No. 1?

While Diesel Fuel No. 1 has an advantage in low temperature operability, there are some disadvantages, as well. The energy content of No. 1 Diesel Fuel is about 95% that of Diesel Fuel No. 2 and will provide a correspondingly lower fuel economy. Diesel Fuel No. 1 is also lower in viscosity and provides less lubrication for the fuel pump and fuel distributor.


What are the differences among Diesel Fuels, Heating Oils and Kerosenes?

Diesel Fuels, Heating Oils and Kerosenes are all products distilled from crude oil. While they are similar, there are some critical specification and legal differences among the products that normally prohibits using them interchangeably. These differences come about because their respective applications differ; Diesel Fuels are used in internal combustion engines, Heating oils in oil burners and Kerosenes are used in lamps and non-vented heaters. In addition to these differences, the products are subject to different tax laws. A few of the differences are highlighted below.

Diesel fuels have cetane specifications to assess combustion properties in diesel engines. They are also exposed to outdoor temperatures and relatively fine filtration. The common measure for low temperature fluidity is the cloud point. Neither Heating Oils nor Kerosenes require cetane number or cloud point specs. Heating Oils and Kerosenes are not taxed as are over the road diesel fuels. To distinguish them, with a few exceptions, the IRS requires that they be dyed dark red.

What is diesel fuel lubricity?

Diesel fuel lubricity is a measure of diesel fuel's ability to reduce wear on contacting solid surfaces found in some fuel pumps and injectors. In the case of diesel engines, some fuel pumps and fuel injectors are lubricated by the fuel, so lubricity is a measure of a diesel fuel's ability to prevent wear in these parts

[csimo]

And finally we get to the bottom of the "all gasoline is the same" myth. Here's an excerpt from "The Truth About Gasoline". The additives that make the brands different are added after the pipeline.

"Pipelines are used in the United States to transport gasoline from refineries over long distances to local distribution centers, where gasoline is stored and then transported by truck to individual gasoline stations. These same pipelines also carry other refined products, including different grades of gasoline, diesel, home heating fuel, kerosene and jet fuel, all of which are shipped in batches. Adjoining batches mix wherever they come into contact with each other. These mixed portions of the stream, such as a mixture of premium gasoline with regular gasoline, may be sent to a refinery for re-refining and sold as a lower-valued product or as a mixture.

A gasoline marketer is not overly concerned with receiving gasoline from another marketer