Juice box without gauges?

[jfile]

Does anybody run the juice box without gauges? If so at what level and what to look out for so I don't burn up my truck. What are the best guages?

[IndigoDually]

Juice without gauges, I would not reccomend it. I am running gauges without any mods so I can see how the truck runs for baseline readings. This way I know how the changes I make affect the boost and egt's.

As for brands that is really personal preference. Isspro, VDO, Autometer etc, all build good gauges. I like analog ones so a glance at the needle lets me know I am ok without having to focus on an exact number. Some like the accuracy of digital but I think I would be watching it too much and not paying attention to other things like driving.

Just to reiterate what's been said before, the article "Got Gauges" explians installation to a T. It's easier than it looks.

John

[matt-max]

i ahve been running it since may without gauges and i have yet to see any molten metal coming from the tail pipe.

i used to cruise around in 4 in normal and 2 in tow haul. over the last few months i switched to '0' in normal and 4 in tow haul.

i do have the jk 4" exhaust and the k&n intake.

i will have a new truck next week and will get gauges for it. let me know what you find on the x-box too

thanks
matt

[matt-max]

also, i should add that i have not been towing anything real heavy during this time.

edge says if you keep it under about 12k gross or so you don't need to worry about running the level 4.

i have mostly been towing my race trailer (motorcycle road racing bikes), a 6x12 enclosed single axle that you honestly cannot tell if it is back there or not unless you look.

earlier in the year when i was towing more for work (landscaping company) i towed in 2 and ran around in 4.

the juice on level '0' runs great and definitely adds some seriously noticeable torque and hp.

matt

[Swayse]

Yep, HOT Juice without guages. :eek: Not very bright, I know. :rolleyes: I don't pull much, and when I do, I pull in L1. I run around in L3, most of the time. L4 (hot) is for the drag strip (14.24) and street racing. Truck doesn't see L4 very much.

I don't like pre-turbo, and I can't find a good place to do post.

[Amianthus]

Trust me on this one. Running ANY power mod without gauges is a very bad idea. However, if you insist on doing so, don't complain and cry when you've melted your engine. You won't get any sympathy, and likely no warranty. Consider yourselves warned.

[mtomac]

Swayse,

What were your 60' 330' 1/8, 1000' ect #'s on your 14.24 run?

I would like to compare them to my 14.30 @ 92.46mph run.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

GOT GAUGES????????

I have run my truck stock with gauges, 90HP Juiced and 125HP Juiced.

The only time I see higher than 800 degrees is when I am loaded heavy 3K-4K in the bed and pulling a hill. Other than that I see 450-600 degrees.

Gauges are a good idea, towing can get you in trouble with EGT's

GMC :D

[hoot]

GMC-2002-Dmax,

"The only time I see higher than 800 degrees is when I am loaded heavy 3K-4K in the bed and pulling a hill. Other than that I see 450-600 degrees."

Is your probe pre-turbo (reading the exhaust immediately exiting the cylinders) or post-turbo?

I do see similar numbers that you except when I drive slightly heavy footed.

During heavy foot driving I see 1000. During all out WOT I get up to 1350 short burst.

[Kennedy]

Real world with any 120HP module on the Dmax will yield peaks around 1500

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

hoot,

I am post turbo, just below the downpipe clamp. I went that route out of ease of installation and I wanted to get a read on both banks.

I see 300 at idle after a brief cooldown
450-500 normal driving.

600 when empty an into it on a flat

800 when pulling hills and loaded.

I have seen 1000 degrees one time pulling a long hill, loaded about 3500 lbs and heavy in pedal just to see what I could get out of it.

I am aware that post EGT's react ALOT SLOWER than manifold EGT'S.

I am contemplating having the manifolds JET HOT coated and if I do I will probably drill and tap both when off the truck. I had looked into a 3 probe, single gauge setup, they do make it. BIG $$$$$$$$$$$.

I compared with MAC and his is not alot differn't than mine, He has seen I think 1350 once or so.

GMC
;)

[Swayse]

Reaction .9744
60 FT 1.9010
330 FT 5.7387
1/8 mile et 8.9747
1/8 Mile mph 76.29
1000 et 11.7804
1000 ft mph none
1/4 mile et 14.24
1/4 mile mph 90.94

Had about a 20 mph head wind, at about 3,000' elevation, temp was about 55.

My best 60' that night was a 1.85, that run I ran a 14.30. I had to wait in line so long that my truck was cooling down to much so I had to let it idle. When making the runs, the trany wasn't shifting right and the box wasn't coming on right after the shifts like it is suppose to. It runs much better if I can hot lap it. MPH where a bit low that night.

Sure won't mind seeing a break down of your time slip, so I could compare. :D

Pete

[Amianthus]

You guys running post-turbo should add 350* to get a rough idea of pre-turbo readings. Although, it's been proven that the difference across the turbo can be around 500 degrees. Guess what. That means that if you are seeing post-turbo readings of 1000 degrees, you are sending 1350 to 1500 degrees pre-turbo. Those temperatures will aluminum coat your exhaust. Internally.
The placement of the probe has nothing to do with the reaction time of the guage.
Be carefull.

[SoMnDMAX]

I'm running dual probes with my gauge, and I'd have to agree with Amianthus. You'd be suprised how large a difference there is in pre vs. post turbo EGT readings.

Amianthus, the post turbo gauge reaction is delayed quite a bit when compared to pre turbo. I've seen 1500 degrees (Yeah, I know :eek: ) pre turbo, and post turbo the EGT is somewhere around 750-800 climbing slowly. Steady throttle, like pulling a hill will show a 300-350 degree difference, once the readings stabilize.

Dual or even triple probe setups with one gauge is easy, and relatively cheap. Buy the probes, and use either a DPST toggle (two probes) or a rotary switch (three probes), and you're set.

[ 10-23-2002: Message edited by: SoMnDMAX ]</p>

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

SoMnDMAX,

My autometer instructions clearly stated not to alter in any way the length of the wires as it will skew the calibration.

I am stuck buying a digital with 2 inputs and using a split screen with left and right manifolds if I want to see it all.

I may have to check into it Soon!!!

Thanks for the heads-up

GMC :D

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Amianthus,

Are you seeing high temps all the time pre-turbo??

What do you see at 60 mph on the highway - NORMAL DRIVING. I am looking for some bench mark numbers here.

Thanks,

GMC

;)

[mtomac]

RT --- 1.162
60' -- 1.952
330' - 5.804
1/8 -- 9.030 @ 76.07 mph
1000'- 11.873
1/4 -- 14.301 @ 92.46 mph

RT --- .651
60' -- 1.919
330' - 5.804
1/8 -- 9.039 @ 76.07 mph
1000'- 11.882
1/4 -- 14.333 @ 91.27 mph

RT --- .686
60' -- 1.990
330' - 5.898
1/8 -- 9.114 @ 76.28 mph
1000'- 11.947
1/4 -- 14.383 @ 91.74 mph

RT --- .638
60' -- 1.975
330' - 5.884
1/8 -- 9.130 @ 75.87 mph
1000'- 11.974
1/4 -- 14.404 @ 92.34 mph

[SoMnDMAX]

GMC Dmax, I doubt adding any wire or a switch would skew the readings any more than what you'd see in calibration variance between gauges or probes. If it's a big concern, shorten both wires an equal amount, and use one of the wire pairs to run from the switch to the gauge itself. Solder the wire terminations, and you should be good to go. IMHO, this would keep the skewing to a minimum.

[Amianthus]

If you are going to do that, soldering is the best way to counter act the effects of adding a longer harness. Shortening the wires will also help. But, you need to know the resistance of the switch, wires, et al. Then you can measure the wire accordingly. These thermocouples put out a signal in the millivolt range. Any resistance will skew the results considerably. Bear that in mind when you are looking to add extra probes to one gauge.

As for my EGT's, two things make me a bad example for you GMC-2002-Dmax. First, I own a Dodge. Second, I'm slightly modified. Both of these together will mean that my EGT's will be much different than yours.
But to answer your question, with my setup right now, going down the road my EGT's are around 650-700* at 65 MPH. This is without the fueling box on (only injectors and timing module). I max out in this configuration at 1000*. With the fueling box set to kill, I can get to just over 1500*. I have had the engine in the 1650-1700* (est.) ball park for a very short period of time (with smaller injectors than I have now). Operator of the dyno didn't know to look at the pyro. :rolleyes: But oil testing confirmed no damage. I don't recommend doing this. I have since done more mods (bigger turbo to go with bigger injectors :D ) to prevent this from happening in the future.
Just so you know, all my pyro readings are pre-turbo.
If I were to guess, you should be in the 450-500* arena with your Dmax going down the road at 60 mph.

SoMnDmax, there are a number of things that I forgot about when I said what I said in regard to the slow response of the EGT probe post-turbo. Opened my mouth before I thought.

[Swayse]

With my old Dodge Cummins (2001 DD1 and Comp) I had pegged a 1500* gauge quite a few times, pre. Got some SPA guages and I hit over 1700* pre! Freaked me out, so I put the probe post and didn't go over 1100* racing or 1000* pulling. I'm sure I was still hitting over 1600* pre on a regular basis, out of sight out of mind. Sold the truck with 73,000 miles, and new owner has over 87,000 on it now. Still runs better than new. Great truck.

I'm in the middle of installing gauges in this truck now, post of course. :D

[Kennedy]

Lead wires come in MANY lengths. Now I'm no expert here, but I believe what is happening as they are BALANCING the two wires for resistance, capacitance etc.

Solder, from what I hear can generate false readings due to the dissimilar metals factor.

Using the fine wire probe like the SPA wil result in tach like needle sweeps and much higher temp readings. Generally, 200