Additives?

[ryeguy]

Any thoughts about fuel additives? I've got 6k miles on my '02 D/A now. A buddy is telling me I should be running some through with every tank to keep the injectors clean. This is after he had to replace a piston in his 6.5L (w/ 22k miles on it) after an injector clogged.

Thoughts? Opinions? Has this been discussed before? (likely)

--Rob

[Alli-max]

FPPF total power or fuel power. Sometimes hard to find, but worth it. Truck stops sell it. Last a long time as well in a small bottle.

------------------
2001 GMC 2500HD SLE AlliMax, Longbed, Ext. Cab, 4X4 Summit White, G80 Differential, Husky Liners, Black UWS Toolbox, Black Westin Nerfs, Black Replacement Front and Rear Bumper, JL Audio, Hella, Cobra, Goodyear 265/75/16's, Tekonsha Prodigy Controller, Fumoto, Rhino Liner, 400 Watt Inverter
KENNEDY 4" Exhaust: INSTALLED!
UPDATED PHOTOS (http://www.picturetrail.com/markstanco)

My truck is faster than Pullinpower's. Period.

SoMnDmax...here I come!

I sure wished I lived in Lawton, OK so I could work on my truck in Mdrag's Shop!

[D-max Man]

GM does not recommend additives. Many use an emulsifier to blend water with the fuel so it can be burned, this will prevent the water separator from removing it. If the water is makes it past the water separator and is introduced to the fuel system parts it can cause rust and corrosion in the pump, injectors and other components. With the close tolerances of today

[Tader Jack]

I've been using FPPF Total Power since September and also add some of their 8+ Cetane Booster to each tankful. I add 1oz. of each for each 5 gal. of fuel added at fill up, rounding off to the low side.

All I can say is this stuff does work. The truck runs better than ever.

Jack Schultz, McKean, PA
jackschultz@adelphia.net

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/jack_schultz2001

2001 Chevy Silverado, 4-WD, 2500HD, Crew Cab, Short Box
LT Trim, Black Onyx w/ Tan Leather
------------------------------------------------
Beltronics 980 Radar Detector

[TnMax]

The shop manager that services my truck told me GM will not warranty a Duramax fuel pump if there is evidence an additive has been used in the fuel. I was going to add an fuel additive for my trip to Kansas,but after talking to the shop manager I took the additive back to Tractor Supply and got my money back. Those diesel fuel pumps are expensives

[Kennedy]

I gotta say that policy is some of the STUPIDEST stuff that I've heard!!!

Just how many premium diesel stations do they think there are that do NOT use additive to make it premium???

Alcohol based additives (PS) are a definite no-no, but come on, when injection mfrs distribute the stuff...

------------------
John Kennedy
www.kennedydiesel.com (http://www.kennedydiesel.com)
John@kennedydiesel.com
2002 Chev. K2500HD Dmax/Allison Crew Cab Long Bed Pewter/Tan LT Driving it!!!
1996 GMC K2500HD 6.5TD Ex.Cab LWB 260+ Rw H.P.
1984 K30 SRW 6.2NA Headers and custom 2 into 1 exhaust FOR SALE
'01 FXDWG Black/Chrome Yellow (2 into 1 Thunderheader <naturally>) (100+ RwHP)
"If I had to explain, you wouldn't understand"

[Trucker Tex]

You can get more misinformation from some GM service advisors on Duramax Diesels than you would expect from your average old maid librarian. Unfortunately, some of them don't know their a** from deep center field.

I've seen a GM bulletin at Diesel Injection Service endorsing the use of Stanadyne Fuel Additive.



------------------
2002 GMC 2500HD D/A, Crew Cab, Short Bed, Pewter with Pewter SLT Leather, Westin Stainless Nerfs, Line-X Bed Liner, Fumoto Valve. Run GM Synthetic Diff, Chevron Delo 400, Amsoil air filter, Stanadyne Performance Formula and Allison/Castrol TranSynd.

[Bill McGouirk]

I went on trip to the snow and got a can of STP fuel additive just in case it got to cold. I did not have to use it it was very warn. But I like the idea of better mileage and keeping the my truck runing great. So what is the right stuff to use? The cans all look the same.

Thanks BIll

[a64pilot]

Bill,
Stay away from the stuff that claim they rid the fuel system of water for the reasons that D-Max man stated.
IMHO you are much better off leaving the water seperated and letting the filter do it's job.

------------------
2001 C3500 Charcoal Grey
Putco Boss Boards
Putco Virtual Grille
Stainless Sill Protectors
Stainless Exhaust Extension
SPA DG-111 Boost/Pyrometer
Whistler Radar Detector
600 Watt Inverter
Compaq Lap Top W/Moving Map
250 Watt Texas Star Linear Amplifier
Cobra 29 Classic CB Peaked W/Echo Card
102" Steel Whip
Cross Bed Aluminium Tool Box
Catch All Mats

[Alli-max]

FPPF. As I said above, Some truck stops sell it, and you can also check out www.kennedydiesel.com (http://www.kennedydiesel.com) Get his number, and give him a call.

------------------
2001 GMC 2500HD SLE AlliMax, Longbed, Ext. Cab, 4X4 Summit White, G80 Differential, Husky Liners, Black UWS Toolbox, Black Westin Nerfs, Black Replacement Front and Rear Bumper, JL Audio, Hella, Cobra, Goodyear 265/75/16's, Tekonsha Prodigy Controller, Fumoto, Rhino Liner, 400 Watt Inverter
KENNEDY 4" Exhaust: INSTALLED!
UPDATED PHOTOS (http://www.picturetrail.com/markstanco)

My truck is faster than Pullinpower's. Period.

SoMnDmax...here I come!

I sure wished I lived in Lawton, OK so I could work on my truck in Mdrag's Shop!

[Tader Jack]

All I can say is that it "does work", and it makes the truck run better. What do you think the "good" diesel fuel distributors put into your fuel? Additives . . . particularly in the winter months to prevent gelling. Same thing as FPPF. Also some put other lubricants, cleaners, plus cetane boosters.

The fuel distributor who handles BP and Shell plus many of the other private trucking companies in our area is the only one who puts in a cetane booster. Standard diesel is only 40 cetane, that all. Pretty crummy stuff on its own. Erie Petroleum puts it's additives in to get to 45 cetane. I add a little more to push it closer to 50. That's where it should be anyway.

If we were all running 50 cetane fuel, there would be much better and more consistent performance in all our diesel trucks. Why do you think there are so many different performance stories out there, good and bad . . . fuel is a huge contributing factor in a diesel.

The reason GM tells us not to put in additives is because there are some really stupid people out there who might add an entire quart or so at a time to their fuel system to "tune it up". I've heard some of these brilliant discussions at the bar from those guys who may never have counted past 10 in their life. GM is protecting themselves from these idiots, and I don't blame them.

But, seriously, think about it, additives are the best thing, particularly for your diesel engine. Heck, we used to put in stuff called "Diesel Pep" back in the 60's. All the owner-operators used that stuff way back then. It helped then also.



[This message has been edited by Tader Jack (edited 01-16-2002).]

[cantravel]

Now wait a minute! It gets cold were I live, and where I go, and without some diesel fuel treatment, I would not get far in either my Chevy Duramax, or my Volvo Detroit 12.7ltr cause my filter would be plugged with wax.

I use Howes' Diesel Treat, which does NOT emulsify water, but does just the opposite. Howes' Diesel Treat de-emulsifies water which ensures any water reaching the fuel/water separator stops at the filter.

I highly doubt GM would dispute a warranty claim because I used a diesel fuel treatment so I could start my engine, specially one which removes water from the fuel before the pump and injectors.

It is absolutely true that some kinds of diesel fuel treatments should not be used in a Duramax. Anything containing alcohol or water emulsifiers should never be used.

And as a matter of general interest, my Volvo highway tractor averages 5.6 mpg on a 1400 mile round trip in winter without Howes' Diesel Treat vs an average 6.6 or better with. Without in winter I change my fuel filter every 3000 miles or so, vs 15000 miles with.

I can see the difference!

01 Chev K3500 D/A LT Crew LBx
Diesel Page Member #40

[SHOPMAN426]

It's kind of funny we keep bringing this subject back up. A while back Kennedy gave his two cents on the subject. You guys need to listen. I've only been part of this group since last Fall. But when I see a post from Kennedy I make sure I read it. Now I don't know Kennedy, and may never know him, but I feel anything he says along the lines of diesels is on the level. People with his background are a very big plus to us all.

O.K. I'll get off my box now. I called a Rep. from FPPF awhile back to find a location to get there product. He told me he would be coming though my area over the weekend. Sure enough, on Sunday he stopped at my house to talk with me. He gave me a list of places to buy and left me with 6 bottles of Total Power to try. Now that's what I call a good Factory Rep. I don't know too many parts stores that would just give you their product to try for free!


Thanks to the wise ones,

SHOPMAN426.

Mike.


------------------
2002 GMC SLT Summit White 4x4 Longbox Crewcab 2500HD.
Duramax 6.6L and Allison 1000 Series 5 Speed Auto.
All the Bells and Whistles right down to the heated seats.

ACCESSORIES
<LI>Cooper 265x75 16R Tires.
<LI>16x8 Typhoon Weld Wheels with aluminum lug covers.
<LI>Bars cranked up for 265's.
<LI>GT Classic Hard Tonneau Cover by Gem Top.
<LI>Airlift air bags.
<LI>DTA Corp. running boards.
<LI>KaydenCo mudflaps front and rear.
[/list]

ACCESSORIES to be added
<LI>Rhino spray in liner.
[/list]

[Bill McGouirk]

O.K what do you think of this suff.

RED LINE 15W40 DIESEL ENGINE OIL: Your diesel engine needs more internal cleaning and acid neutralizing than a gasoline engine and that is why you should use diesel engine oils. The high detergency of diesel engine oil will ensure long haul, high temperature protection as well as short trip protection by minimizing deposit build ups. API rated CH-4, CG-4, CF, SJ, EO-M
This oil is available in quarts or gallons. For use in diesel engines only.

RED LINE

[Kennedy]

Simply put:

Add 1 part FPPF Fuel Power to 1 part water and shake. You can also do this mixed in with diesel fuel.

Now TRY to find the water with that goofy paste that the fuel stations use. You just plain WON'T! I have the kit that does this demo.

Now I have seen DS4 pumps with severe water damage. Guess the filter didn't do such a good job of straining out the water...

------------------
John Kennedy
www.kennedydiesel.com (http://www.kennedydiesel.com)
John@kennedydiesel.com
2002 Chev. K2500HD Dmax/Allison Crew Cab Long Bed Pewter/Tan LT Driving it!!!
1996 GMC K2500HD 6.5TD Ex.Cab LWB 260+ Rw H.P.
1984 K30 SRW 6.2NA Headers and custom 2 into 1 exhaust FOR SALE
'01 FXDWG Black/Chrome Yellow (2 into 1 Thunderheader &lt;naturally&gt;) (100+ RwHP)
"If I had to explain, you wouldn't understand"

[et]

Shopman426,

Please share that list of locations the FPPF Rep. gave you. I will be passing through the Portland on my way to the coast tomorrow.

My email address is ejscott@skyride.net

Thanks

------------------
2002 2500HD ExtCab LB 4X4 LT D/A

[This message has been edited by et (edited 01-16-2002).]

[letsgo]

If you live in the Toronto area you can get FPPF TOTAL POWER from ADP Distributing 1-800-601-7888 12 BOTTLES $156.00 each bottle good for 250 gal. Also if you go to Canadian Tire they have a plastic bottles comprised of a lower portion that holds the additive upper portion has a graduated 100ml reservoir (1/4 graduation == 5 gal or 20 liters), (you squeeze the required mix from the lower container into the upper container and then just pore no fuss no mess). Research what your buying in this area as a couple of the diesel fuel additives sold do not have anti waxing or any centain improver.
PS. the bottle I described is full of car fuel injector additive.

[johns]

I've used the Stanadyne Perforamnce additive in my diesel. Tell you the truth, I can't tell the difference in performance, sound or MPG's. I've been tracking my MPH tank by tank since my truck was new (67K miles ago) and the Stanadyne hasn't made one iota difference in MPG's.

[MAXed Out]

I just tried the RED LINE

[mattb5150]

I was wondering about this also. I would like to run Stanadyne lubricity formula in my Dmax just like I do in my 6.5L. I understand that the low sulphur diesel used here in California is harder on fuel systems. I would like to start out on the right foot and give the injectors the most amount of life I can.

I was wondering if the additive may do something to my catalyitc converter? I have a sticker on the inside of my fuel door which says "low sulphur diesel only". Does everyone have this sticker or is this just for CA models? Wonder if it has to do with the cat?

Matt B.

------------------
mattb5150@hotmail.com

1993 K2500 HD ext.cab 4x4 with Banks Exhaust, Turbo Technologies mandrel bent crossover pipe, DSG Gear Drive, cooling mods, Bill Heath Turbo Master boost control, Isspro gauges, K&N Filter, Bilsteins.

1993 K3500 ext.cab single rear wheel 4x4, snorkel removed. Isspro EGT Gauge and Boost Gauge, Amsoil Filter, Banks Boost Lever, Rancho RS 9000 shocks with in cab controller. For Sale.

2002 GMC K2500HD SLE CC/LB DMAX/ALLI, Summit White, aluminum wheels. Husky liners. Amsoil TS 123 air filter, Fumoto valve, Covercraft seatsavers.

[This message has been edited by mattb5150 (edited 01-17-2002).]

[Ole Hoss]

Shopman426
Mike, shoot me your email address. Have met and talked with Sooty. We need to meet and talk shop!?!

Glen http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

olehoss@hotmail.com



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2002 CHEVY Silverado K2500HD LS XCab L/B AlliMax. Westin Nerfs, ProTech CabGuard, LINEX Bedliner w/Diamond Plate Bed Rails and TailGate Cover. TOYO A/T 265R75x16's on Alloy Wheels. Orygon Conestoga Puller!

[Johnson]

Have any of you used the Lucas upper lube and injector cleaner? I have used it in Gas engines even though its for Diesels and had good luck with it, I can really tell a difference.

[hoot]

Quick question,

I needed some starting fluid for my old Ford diesel backhoe. The only stuff they had said for gasoline engines only. Is their a difference?

[MudNurI]

Okay you guys have got me confused-

the comments -- My truck runs better than it ever did, etc... did your truck ever run crappy? What exactly are you noticing different?? I don't think there is anything wrong with the way my truck runs and can't seem to imagine it running any better than it does.
Oh, maybe it has something to do with that "other fuel tank" we use to fill it up? my theory on this is- you truck only has 3k miles, exactly what is built up? Even with 30k miles, what is clogging what?
someone please clarify- are you talking about "anti gel" stuff?

do I sound like a chick in this post or what?
LOL
--Brandy

[a64pilot]

OK Brandy,
If your fuel is not the highest quality to begin with, boosting the cetane, (similar to octane rating of gasoline), seems to give better fuel mileage, smoother and quiter idle and better cold starts. Less noisy and little or no smoke during warm up. Where I am from it dosen't get very cold though.
As far as actually cleaning anything, I don't know about that. Had an old Mercedes diesel that would pick up a knock sound when it's injectors got varnished up.

------------------
2001 C3500 Charcoal Grey
Putco Boss Boards
Putco Virtual Grille
Stainless Sill Protectors
Stainless Exhaust Extension
SPA DG-111 Boost/Pyrometer
Whistler Radar Detector
600 Watt Inverter
Compaq Lap Top W/Moving Map
250 Watt Texas Star Linear Amplifier
Cobra 29 Classic CB Peaked W/Echo Card
102" Steel Whip
Cross Bed Aluminium Tool Box
Catch All Mats

[trailguide2u]

I have been told not to run additives on the Dmax. A good friend of mine who happens to be GM mechanic finished a class on the Dmax a few weeks ago. He was told no additives are acceptable and a test kit for the fuel will be used from now on. They where instructed to test the fuel for additives before any drivability concerns would be addressed thus voiding warranty. I use the Total Power additive and will discontinue use until more info is available.
I don't agree with it but warranty claims worry me. This maybe old info-thought I post it anyway :confused: I should also add that the additives are what GM is blaming the pump failures on.

[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: trailguide2u ]</p>

[Alli-max]

As mentioned above, additives are what boost the cetane rating. Are they going to void warranties for running Premium Diesel? Dont think so. Put your FPPF in there ande go. Just stay away from Power Service type additives.... Alcohol = bad!

[Spoolin'It]

GM used to recommend Stanadyne additives when they had Stanadyne pumps in their trucks. The only reason they don't say anything now is its easier to say use no additive than test any additives for compatability. I have a hard time believing additives are the cause of pump failures. The whole point of any decent additive is to protect the fuel system by adding lubricity and removing water, not to kill the pump. The only possible issue I could see would be with the seals but I would think most if not all diesel additives would be compatible with the seals in modern engines. The seals are already pretty durable since they have to stand up to low-sulfur fuel which is very harsh on rubber.

[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Spoolin'It ]</p>

[KompressorMan]

A64,
Are you back?

[trailguide2u]

I should of also added that the big GM concern was the pump seals failing due to additives.

[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: trailguide2u ]</p>

[Tim B]

Alli-Max -
Would like to know more about the Power Service additive. I almost bought some - I didn't because there were no ingredients listed. How do you know it has alcohol in it ? Does the stuff work as advertised ?

Thanks,

Tim B.

[george morrison]

I have used both FPPF and Power services as diesel fuel systems have needed lubricity supplementation with the lowering of the fuel sulpher levels, plus the wide variation of disel fuel quality from fair to poor. I have been testing Power Master 405 by Primrose and can attest that I have achieved noticeable difference in fuel *mileage*, which I have never experienced with other fuel additives. We broke our personal 20 mpg barrier with the 405. The 405 functions as a fuel lubricant, injector cleaner, anhydrant and cetane booster. We have been shipping free samples with cases of Delvac 1 engine oil ( http://www.avlube.com/ ) and the responses we have received so far are enthusiastically positive. The 405 is relatively inexpensive at $3.85 for a 12 ounce bottle which can treat up to 187 gallons of diesel fuel.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

[Amianthus]

I use Power Service and I like it. Haven't had a problem with the stuff yet. Although, I'm running a completely different rig. Stanadyne is also really good stuff. But any quality additive is worthwhile.
I think that GM doesn't recommend using additives for a couple of reasons. Some are probably the same reasons that Dodge doesn't recommend additives either. The biggest reason is that people will use anything as an additive. Transmission fluid, engine oil, used oil, and on and on. All of these are not proper additives and can cause damage to the system and screw up the sensors on the truck. Not to mention the emissions issues. It's better to just tell people not to do it than to try to explain the right and the wrong of using an additive.
If you are worried about it, keep this in mind. Buy your diesel from a station that moves alot of it. That way it stays fresh. You will have less problems that way.
One final thought. Has anyone asked a truck stop operator how they winterize their diesel? I bet they do it with an additive.

[Redhawk]

I have an in the bed fuel tank which I generally use when towing my fiver. When I'm empty not all of the fuel in the tank has ben used so I worry about that small amount of diesel, probably less than a gallon, sloshing around that may be accumulating moisture. I want to use a diesel stabilizer to keep this residual fuel from becoming glue. What is the best stuff to use for this purpose?

[pinehill]

The best thing I've found for preventing the degradation of fuel in storage is Sta-Bil, which is available almost everywhere. Works with both gasoline and diesel. I have several machines which aren't run frequently, and Sta-Bil has kept residual fuel in these tanks fresh for months.

[Big O]

#1. There have been several mentions of alcohol=bad. I didn't think ANY of the DIESEL additives used alcohol.
#2. I think the previous mentioned Power Service is what I use-came from WallyWorld. Earlier post I read praised it, but on this thread I see warning against it because of alcohol=bad. It is specifically marked for diesels and makes no mention of alcohol.
#3. Does anyone actually know the TRUTH? :confused: :confused:

[Amianthus]

How's this for ya.
--------------------------------------------------
Dear Aron:

Thank you for taking the time to contact Power Service with your question. This is probably the most frequently asked question that we receive at Power Service. Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost does not contain any alcohol of any kind.

The one and only product manufactured by Power Service that contains the specific type of alcohol recommended by major engine manufacturers for removing water, is our Diesel 911.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Thank you,

Mandy Kramer
Power Service Products, Inc.
mkramer@powerservice.com

This communication (including the contents and all attachments) is
confidential and the proprietary information of Power Service and may
not be disclosed to others, in whole or in part, without the prior written consent of Power Service Products, Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Amianthus [mailto:amianthus@sprynet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:24 AM
To: psp@powerservice.com
Subject: Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost


Does this supplement contain any alcohol? There have been concerns in the past on the effects of alcohol on the newer diesel injection pumps.

Do any of your products contain alcohol and will they damage the HP injection pumps in newer diesel engines?

Please let me know when you can. Thank you very much.

Aron Howlett
--------------------------------------------------
There's your answer for you. No lies. No half-truths. No second-hand information. Right from the source, it is. I will continue to use the stuff and I highly recommend you use some sort of additive. You will like what it does for you.

[MGM]

I also looked at Power Service , but because they do not indicate "NO ALCOHOL" on there containers i shyed away, why do they not do so?or is this to simple a solution?

[Big O]

Amianthus
I appreciate the info. That pretty well answers my questions, thanks.

[bora]

Is there anyone out there using Redline 85 Plus
diesel additive?

[Dtruck]

I use FPPF without problems. Can notice "more" injector noise without adding. Engine still is queit.