View Full Version : Troubleshooting the Juice HELP!
Serious problem: Received my Juice from Kennedy and it would NOT program. It stayed where it was set - level 1 tow haul, level 2 regular driving. Called Edge, Justin talked me through the programming process several times while listening to the engine on my cell phone, no luck. He sent me a new one and an RMA.
Today the new one came it. Same symptoms _#*)@$) only this time it defaulted at level 2 for tow/haul, level 4 (WOW) for regular driving.
This really points to my truck as the culprit. Specifically, I think it's the switch or whatever senses the accelerator pedal full travel isn't doing the job of reprogramming the juice. My mat isn't folded or bunched, and I really stood on the pedal to get full travel, so for the Juice gurus out there, how do I determine if the switch(?) is working or not? If it ain't that switch, I'm gonna have to throw up my hands and return everything to everyone for refund. Something I DO NOT want to do. One taste of Juice and yer addicted.... I can't picture myself walking into a dealership and complaining that I can't program the Juice because there's an electrical problem in my accelerator pedal....
Applecore
08-11-2003, 18:45
Here's how I do it:
1) Set park brake
2) Turn ignition on, select desired level, and transmission mode.
3) Push the accelerator pedal fully to the floor three times in succession.
Take your time. be deliberate, and pause for 1/2 second at the top/bottom
of travel. This isn't a race. Also, make sure there are no mats
interfering with 100% travel.
4) Move selector to park and start the engine. Cycle the Tow/Haul button
off/on a couple times. Shift to N and back to park, at which time the
engine
idle will briefly flare consistent with the level you have selected.
Example: Level 4 will give 4 short flairs in idle RPM. The first flare can
come right as the selector hits park, so listen closely.
Let me make this perfectly clear. I know the programming steps, I have several copies of the programming steps, Justin works for Edge and carefully talked me through those same steps at least 5 times. It is definitely not a problem with programming procedure!
Applecore, your procedure is precisely the same as Justin's and John's. I appreciate your effort however it still points to a hardware problem, but not a Juice hardware problem.
Lone Eagle
08-11-2003, 19:43
Being stuck in 4 & 2 is a ton better than 2 & 1. Later! Lone Eagle :D
tell me what levels on a standard juice you want I have an extra will program it and send it to ya then send me yours.........ie what level on tow haul and what level on standard(non to haul)..or if you know someone with an auto dmax use that truck to program your juice. when you remove the juice the settings remain on the box....this is the method to program a 6 speed :D dave
AbqGeorge
08-11-2003, 20:03
Mine did the same thing right out of the box. I recall a suggestion on this forum by someone? to drive it a few miles and retry it.
That's all it took with mine. Ran it about 14 miles up I25 a few exits. Stopped, turned off engine and it programmed just fine and has ever since.
What surprised me was how fast those confirmation revs come. No one explained it as..... say brrrrp, brrrrp, brrrrp, brrrrp as fast as you can.
chevmeister
08-11-2003, 20:44
brrrrp, brrrrp, brrrrp, brrrrp
Thanks i needed a chuckle today. my buddy had to do it 4 times before we could count them. The click of the shifter into park disguised two of the brrrrp's. :D
Yup, try a different truck.
Sorry to say, and NOT pointing fingers, but issues like this one are the reason Edge has so many refurbs available from time to time.
I'd suggest either:
1) trying on another truck
2) leave as is
3) adding the Attitude if/when it becomes available.
4) verify that your truck does indeed hit 100% APP with a scan tool.
Silver Bullet
08-11-2003, 20:57
4) verify that your truck does indeed hit 100% APP with a scan tool. JK - Can you expand on this...APP? scan tool...Tech II or just a code reader?
I have been having problems resetting my "chg eng oil" message...just wondering if there is something I can check.
Thanks.
Allow me to throw my 2cents in. I called JK after having much frustration with the Juice trying to get it programmed. The newest version that I have did not want to set power levels all that time at all. John emailed me new instructions and they work EVERY time. Here they are again.
Here's how I do it:
1) Set park brake
2) Turn ignition on, select desired level, and transmission mode. Levels
are 1,2,3, and 4 as indicated by the gear selector. D is level 4 and R is
off. You can select ANY level with the transmission in normal mode and any
level in Tow Haul mode. They can be the same, or different, and will remain
set until you change them.
3) Push the accelerator pedal fully to the floor two times in succession.
Take your time. be deliberate, and pause for 1/2 second at the top/bottom
of travel. This isn't a race. Also, make sure there are no mats
interfering with 100% travel.
4) Move selector to park and start the engine. Cycle the Tow/Haul button
off/on a couple times. Shift to N and back to park, at which time the
engine
idle will briefly flare consistent with the level you have selected.
Example: Level 4 will give 4 short flairs in idle RPM. The first flare can
come right as the selector hits park, so listen closely.
I had to modify this slightly. You have to go from R-N-R-P like the Edge instructions say to get the engine to go brrp brrp ;)
Std Juice 90 HP version:
1=30HP
2=60HP
3=75HP
4=90HP
R=Fueling increase off - timing only
HOT Juice 125 HP version:
1=60HP
2=75HP
3=90HP
4=125HP
R=Fueling increase off - timing only
John Kennedy
Kennedy Sales and Service
W3351 26 Rd
Loyal WI 54446
Ph 715-255-9433
Fax 715-255-9499
john@kennedydiesel.com
www.kennedydiesel.com (http://www.kennedydiesel.com)
www.kennedytrailers.com (http://www.kennedytrailers.com)
Like John said ,
If he aint getting "Full" throttle he can beat the tar out of his go peddle,cycle the tow haul till the cows come home ,select any gear on the tree,it still probably wont set ...... :rolleyes:
You could Hook up with some one ....
Might try Going to the dealer tell them your struggling reseting oil change light,someone said I may not be getting 100% accelerator pedddle position (APP) ....... (Leave Juice Home)
Or go for a test ride in a New truck set the juice and go home,no smokers ..... Don't forget to say thanks to the salesman ..... (Dont wear Juice as a neck tie)
Mac :D :D :D
Push the accellerator peddle to the floor
2 times or 3 times? Which is it? The
instructions say 2 times - some of you say
3 times - a computer should function the
same way all the time unless the program is
flawed or the hardware is defective?
Which is it? At $500 - lots of profit
let's get it straight.
Sometimes my juice takes the program and sometimes it doesn't.
Since I purchased my Juice a month ago - they are now going to offer Attitude - maybe they should
get the program down and stop acting like Microsoft!
Sneaks-
I used to have a lot of problems setting the levels as well. Turns out, mine was related to the Service Engine light being on. Whenever it was on, I couldn't get the levels to change.
As recommended by someone else on this board, start the motor, then shut it off, but don't turn the key all the way to off. Then imediately turn the key on. The Service Engine light should be off. Now try to set your levels, I only pump the pedal twice as well.
Hope this helps,
Bob
Maybe I just dreamed this but.. wasn't there an issue with some of the throttle position sensors not going to 100%?
Thought I heard about several people having to have the sensor changed out or adjusted in order to get full throttle.
03BlueHD
08-12-2003, 07:23
Originally posted by Sneaks:
Let me make this perfectly clear. I know the programming steps, I have several copies of the programming steps, Justin works for Edge and carefully talked me through those same steps at least 5 times. It is definitely not a problem with programming procedure!Sneaks, no offense, but that sounds like EXACTLY what your problem is. I just went through the same thing last week, when I first got the Juice. Let me offer my .02. First, I depress the pedal 4 times when setting. Second, toggling the tow/haul seems to be necessary every time. Third and probably most importantly, my @#$%$#%^* door locks were programed to lock when in gear and unlock while in park, well with the damn door locks making noise, I couldn't hear the "blips" of the exhaust, so I change the programming of the locks. Finally, it took me going to a buddies, who has the Juice, and having him show me what he did.
Since I got a the hang of it, I have had zero prolems programming. It really does sound like its an operation problem and not a module problem, like I said, I was in the same place as you last week.
With as much hassle as I had with changing the levels, I would have a VERY hard time believing that it is the gas pedal. I also wait with the key on until all of the lights, bells and beepers are off. About 5-10 seconds after key on. I still don't get the level to set right if I get impatient.
Jess
I can honestly say that I have never personally experienced a Juice that would not change levels. I've had a handful of missed attempts, but it always sets.
It now only requires 2 WOT applications.
Edge had this controller in the works a LONG time ago. Changing levels is only one of MANY neat features designed into this unit.
Comparing Edge to Microsoft, come on now, save that for the Brand-X Duramax tuners! :mad:
Originally posted by jesshd:
With as much hassle as I had with changing the levels, I would have a VERY hard time believing that it is the gas pedal. I also wait with the key on until all of the lights, bells and beepers are off. About 5-10 seconds after key on. I still don't get the level to set right if I get impatient.
Jess Good point!
If you begin to depress the pedal PRIOR to the ECM "sweeping the APP module and acquiring 0% values, it will see the transient value equivalent to the current APP as 0% therefore never acheiving 100% APP angle...
Like I say in my own personal destructions "Take your time, it's not a race" http://members.aol.com/panheadgk/copchase.gif
OK, first thanks for all the help and alternatives. Tremendous forum!
I did check to see if full throttle actually worked, simply by resetting the oil change interval (pump 5 times in 3 seconds) and got the proper readout so logically, throttle travel doesn't seem to be the problem.
4X4 man noted he had to have the "Check Engine" light out. Mine stays on, so his procedure is one I'll try after I have my second cup of coffee this morning. The instructions do say to wait until all the warning lights go out and my check engine only goes out after actual startup.
Abqgeorge suggested driving it for a bit. BTDT (Been there done that) No luck.
Ultimately, I've decided to do some of what John Kennedy suggested. The second Edge (Level 4/2) will go back to Edge with my thanks, I'll put the first Edge (2/1) back in, and wait for the Magic Controller to pass beta testing and get shipped.
My thanks to Sdaver for his generous offer but I do have an acquaintance with a duplicate of my truck - all I have to do is convince him that letting me play with the electrics on his $40 grand truck won't hurt it. He lives out in the Santee CA Wilderness though, so it might take some time getting there.
Thanks to the newer preprogrammed Edge, I've experienced the awesome power level 4 brings, so dropping back to the very conservative Kennedy preprogrammed 2/1 Edge gives me a huge jump in torque without really worrying about immediately installing EGT gauges and bigger exhausts, and I can look forward to being there again.
As for John,
4) verify that your truck does indeed hit 100% APP with a scan tool.
If I knew what you were talking about I'd do just that but those acronyms are as familiar to you as manufacturing hard drives were to me back when I actually worked for a living.
In any case, even the lower limits derived from a 2/1 Edge are worth what I paid for the Edge in the long term. I remember the costs associated with cranking up torque and horsepower on my old flathead Ford V8 and this is pocket change in comparison, especially with the dollar devaluation since 1956. Again, my thanks to the Forum here. :cool:
Addendum: It sets! Thank you 4X4man, that check engine light trick worked. Mixed emotions. Now I'll need EGT gauges and a keener CHP detector, but happiness is smoking PSD's. At my age, it's all I got left. ;)
The scan tool will show APP (accelerator pedal position) angle in %. The thing to look for is that it hits 100% when matted.
Glad you got it working! It's almost always something simple...
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