Duramaximiser or Juice?

[Robert J Spence]

Is therte a difference or not?
Which is the best value? I have a new 2003 on order and would like to add one or the other.

[tmg115]

yes there is a diference.

it all depends on what you are doing.

if you are towing get the Duramaximizer.

if you are racing get the juice.

i have both and that is what i have noticed between the 2.

[csimo]

I disagree with the previous comments.

The Duramaximizer does only one thing... it boosts fuel rail pressure to dangerous levels to get more fuel injected per injection cycle. It will eventually ruin your injection pump (very expensive) and your injectors since both are run well beyond their design limits.

The Juice or EZ Amp tune the engine the way a diesel should be tuned. They discount the EPA and other government regulations and change the fuel injection timing and fuel injection quantity to optimum numbers for a diesel engine. They do not raise the fuel pressure.

In my opinion there are no valid applications for the Duramaximizer or similar devices.

The Juice and EZ Amp are neither for racing nor trailer towing. They simply tune the Duramax to run like any properly tuned diesel engine.

Due to the nature of diesel engines it is possible to give them enough fuel to raise exhaust gas temps. to dangerous levels. Both the above products can result in this problem. Do not run either product without proper gauges.

The only proper way to increase performance is to modify injection timing and duration, not raise fuel rail pressure. The answer is the Juice or EZ Amp are the ones to get, and the Duramaximzer and similar devices should be avoided if you value your very expensive fuel injection system.

All the above is my opinion, and others will differ, but I think anyone that understands the dynamics of a diesel engine will agree with me.

[tmg115]

i disagree.

the duramaximizer does not raise the fule rail pressure to un safe levels. it raises it but it is not to the point it is un safe. the duramaximizer is a great product and so is the juice. like i said i have had both and i like both very much. but it is your truck and your cash.

[SoCalDMAX]

csimo,

I agree with 99% of what you said. I'm sure the Duramaximizer mfr would disagree with your statement about dangerous fuel pressure levels. I'd agree that increasing pressure is making the pump work harder and possibly shortening it's life, but I wouldn't term it "dangerous", it kind of implies some sort of danger associated with it. One advantage to the Maximizer is the ease with which the dial can be adjusted to whatever level, even off.

I thought there was a pressure relief valve in the fuel system. It's set to a pressure below what the system can withstand. The Maximizer doesn't boost the pressure to the point that the relief lifts. I'm sorry I have no hard numbers as to what's normal fuel pressure, what the Maximizer boosts it to or what the relief valve is set to.

I agree wholeheartedly, increasing pressure is probably not good for the longevity of the pump. Timing and pulse width are far better, more efficient ways of making power.

Regards, Steve

[ 07-11-2002: Message edited by: SoCalDMAX ]</p>

[RWSDIESEL]

I AGREE with tmg115.

I have a Maximizer that works flawlessly. I also used a GM HP tech II to verify Maximizer's manufacturer claims that the Maximizer indeed does both increases fuel pulse width as does the Juice, and also slightly increases fuel pressure, well below that of any saftey release or so called danger levels. I believe csimo might be confused with the bd box or bully dog or similar pressure only devices, that really raise pressure sky high.

I purchased the Maximizer because i wanted a box that would add value and usablility to my 40 plus thousand dollar truck instead of decreasing driviability such as with the Amp / Juice boxes do.
I have seen and heard the drivability problems with the Juice- check it out for yourself.

http://www.xmission.com/~brimhall/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d2e69c840f9ffff;act=SF;f=1

1)hard starting, posted by csgo, takes twice as long to start the truck, sounds like starter problems in the future to me, especially in the cold climates.

2)cold clatter, damaging detonation to the internals of the engine, piston, heads, head gasket, ect. while cold. Sounds very expensive to me.

3)tough to set power levels. some times you can set it some times you cant, sometimes you can turn it off some times you cant as stated by:

Member .csgo
Group: Forum Regular
Posts: 14
Joined: May 2002
Posted: July 07 2002,13:55

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I had the same problem... couldn't change the power level (I have 3.0). When it gets "jammed" I have to disconnect the Juice for a day or so then reconnect it and it works fine for a while.

On another note I am disturbed by the rough idle mine has developed when the Juice is installed. I take it off and everything is fine, but when the engine is hot and Juice installed the idle is very rough. Sounds like the pilot injection is disabled as well 100% of the time. Wow sounds reliable!

4)fishbite, engine cuts out while driving.

5)change trailer color to black, since the excessive smoke will, there is enough raw fuel being dumped into and right out of the cylinders to make your trailer turn black. That to me is not a correctly tuned diesel, but that of one that should be either on the race track or the train track!

6)where is support? poor customer service - again csgo posted - "lack of info from edge"
"I don't think they have a clue".

7)cannot tow on level 4 because exhaust temps will get to high, and you MUST purchase gauges if you do not want to risk damaging your engine as quoted by edge.
with the maximizer you can tow at max level and no gauges are needed, because exhaust temperatures will not burn up your engine.

well these are some of the facts i base my opinion on, i guess that is why we have a choice.

like tmg says, it is your truck and your cash.

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: RWSDIESEL ]</p>

[blue]

Csimo, it sounds like you have data most of us don't, specifically the design limits of the Duramax:
------------
"The Duramaximizer does only one thing... it boosts fuel rail pressure to dangerous levels to get more fuel injected per injection cycle. It will eventually ruin your injection pump (very expensive) and your injectors since both are run well beyond their design limits."
-------------
As well as knowing specifics about how long the pump lifecycle will be at higher pressures. Has anyone heard of Bullydog/SpeedZone PowerPlay module owners with a SINGLE injection pump failure? We expect pumps to occasionally go out on ANY truck, but not only haven't we seen a PATTERN of failures with BD/PowerPlay, there may not be even ONE. Hardly sounds "dangerous" but maybe you have more data, or define "dangerous" alot differently.


By that reasoning, maybe we should all modify our trucks for way LOWER pressures in order to save the fragile injection pump even more? MAY BE true...but having no specific knowledge, your fear-causing "dangerous" statements/words don't sound justified.


I personally have had the PowerPlay module for a year and a half and am nothing but happy with it. Maybe on the other hand you're a DMax engineer at GM/Isuzu in which case preach on!


I just got an Edge Juice because it is making better power based on reports so far. I can say that it does make more power than PowerPlay, specifically quartermiles:
stock 16.71 @ 79.0mph
PowerPlay 15.1 @ 85.5mph
Juice 14.66 @ 91.3mph
I have towed with the PowerPlay, no problems including EGT's.


In my experience each box has its good points.
I haven't had any problems with either so far; my truck has over 25,000 miles. Still just a baby Diesel smile.gif but no cause for big Alarms either...and both boxes sure are Fun! (oops gotta be careful, some Diesel people don't think "Diesel" and "Fun" are allowed in the same sentence ;) )

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: blue ]</p>

[dschroeder]

How do the fuel economy numbers work out with the Bulldog vs. Juice vs. Duramaximizer? Anyone really looked into this empty vs. towing? It seems like everyone just literally rapes the truck when they have the boxes installed. I am thinking more so I want something that I can adjust in the cab while moving down the road. I do tow some, but the loads are not too bad. I have a four place snowmobile trailer and a 20 foot boat for the summer time blues.

[hoot]

I don't have a lot of faith in failure reporting on these websites. Not everyone will advertise that they destroyed their injection system with an aftermarket "go-box". Kinda risky warranty-wise.

[Kennedy]

I'll throw in a couple of $.02 tidbits here:

1) ANY box should have gauges pure and simple.

2) I am NOT afraid of increased rail pressure. There is a relief valve to protect overpressure. The only concern I have here is that this valve is NOT a high duty cycle component, AND I also believe that if overpressure dumps for too long, it can "Stack up" in the return line and make the lines leak as they are not designed for high psi. I had fuel in my oil early on, and the ONLY mod that I made was to increase the overpressure limit to keep the HP rail from dumping into the return lines.

3) Smoking Edge/Juice??? YES it will roll out smoke at lower RPMs until the turbo catches up, but this is not a continuous thing. As soon as the turbo gets going this clears up. Fuel during "power enrichment" is what helps you tow AND hold OD. Pure and simple, the pulse width type of boxes that reshape the fuel curve are the strongest towing boxes out there...

4) Excessive EGT This one is simple. The Juice/Amp deliver enough fuel to be BOTH a tow box and a race box. This is currently a unique feature in the market. I CAN say with absolute certainty that the Edge boxes WILL allow you to put your engine on the literal "edge" as far as EGT goes. Switch to level 2 which still makes serious power and the EGT will fall substantially making it safe to tow in MOST conditions.


I currently have both on my truck. I am really impressed by the new housing body of the Maximizer which is a great improvement over the previous case. I have yet to authenticate the operation in cruise control for the Maximizer, but hope to soon.


Which is better? Well, Im not going to go there, but I will say this to those who have both:

Do a 55mph pass in a safe area. Try to find a semi to pass. Try this with both boxes individually, and both with the cruise on and off. This will hold OD with cruise on, and let it downshift with cruise off. I think you will find the boxes to be ENTIRELY different in how they feel and what they like. Lemme know what you find!


For those who stack: Are you comfortable with 1600

[hoot]

JK is correct on the "power enrichment".

All this truck needed was a little more power and she will hold any gear for how ever long you want.

[SoCalDMAX]

Hoot,

A Juice box sure would go nice with that propane kit! They really complement each other.

Deep down, that little voice is saying yes, yes, yes!

Bwhahahaha!

Regards, Steve

[hoot]

Steve,

I'm very curious but under-funded right now. Also intersted in the programmer version that TSS will be making available.

1. Adjust the speedo for your altered tire size,

2. Raise the rev limiter,

3. Raise the vehicle speed limiter,

4. Firm up the Allison transmission for the added power,

5. Adjust MAF over flow trouble code.

6. Adjust the overboost trouble code

7. Control the fuel pulse width in both the pilot mode and main injection mode, control the timing of both the pilot injection and main injection and a host of other modifications within the ECM.

ETA: 5 weeks

[bluenote]

To follow up on what SoCalDMAX said about fuel pressures with the Duramaximizer and not knowing actual numbers...I emailed the mfr., and they indicated the following numbers:

normal pressure - 23,000 psi

activation of safety valve for high pressure - 28,000 psi (approx.)

additional pressure with Duramaximizer - 2,000 psi (a gain of less than 10% and at about 25,000 psi, well below the safety valve limit)

Whether or not someone likes the Duramaximizer is up to them, but it appears that the mfr. made sure to remain within acceptable limits for the engine. I've considered this chip, and would be someone who would likely use it only occasionally (i.e. towing hills, or when that PSD or CTD guy wants to lose tongue.gif ). The fact that it is so easily activated, even while driving, and so easily adjustable within it's power range does make it an attractive choice.

[Dave]

Juice get my vote for towing. EGT's are not a problem at level 2, wich is the recommended level for towing. I can climb a 7% grade with a GCW of over 20,000 pounds at 60mph and keep the egt below 1250.

If running a GCW over 18,000 pounds in the hills even stock you can easily exceed 1250 EGT. Gages are a must for towing stock or modified.

I have only 1 issue with the Juice. Fish-bite between 52mph and 58 mph at a steady speed. It starts like stock, it idles like stock, it sounds like stock. It does not set any SES codes. The juice has performed flawlessly for me both empty and towing. I have 44,000 plus miles on my truck. just over 4,000 miles on juice and over 1500 of those miles are towing 12,000 pounds with the juice in the smoky mountains.

Check out my 1000 mile tow report on the juice.

[Vette Racer]

All I can say is that I am pulling 23,180 and with the JUICE the truck is great. It pulls in level two with cruise set and runs great. Egt's are within limits, 1000 post turbo. Just makes the truck run like it should have from the factory. I have found that the 3500 likes a lot of pin weight, at least 3k and more to settle it down. Beats the H#LL out of anything else I've tried.