Do I get a 3500 or not? Need advice. [Archive]

ThumbScott

07-08-2002, 06:40

I have a situation that needs advice from the group.

I have a 2500HD Duramax/Allison, X-cab. I've mostly had crew cabs in the past and duallies. Well when I got this truck 20 months ago I could not get a crew dually so I took what I could get. I love my 2500HD and I am getting the balance down there. I currently owe fewer than 30K, and I only have 29,000 miles on the truck.

I financed for 5 years at 6.9% and now with the 2.9% I thought I would see what the payments would be on a new crew dually Duramax Allison. Well the payments come out the same or close to it.

I have had no problems at all with my current GMC and I worry about getting an end of year 2002 Chevy Duramax Allison? I know what I have now and what is wrong (nothing).

I pull at 36 foot triple axle fiver and I tell myself that a dually would be safer and much better for pulling? (See pics on link). My fiver is 2900 on king pin so I am over on the 2500HD and have air lift installed. And it sure would be nice to have a crew cab back. I didn't realize how often the back was used until I didn't have a crew cab. Not very comfy for an adult in the x-cab.

So do I trade a truck that has nothing wrong with it except it's not a dually/crew for a truck that has those options?

Do I really need a dually, would I pull the fiver better and safer? I am not actually sure what the differences between the 2500HD and 3500 are other then rear capacity and actually according to the trailering guide the 2500HD Duramax Allison pulls more then the 3500 crew dually?????

Any help is greatly appreciated. Do I keep the devil I know for the devil I don't know?

GMC-2002-Dmax

07-08-2002, 07:59

ThumbScott,

If you pull often and have pulled before then you have to make a judgement call based on past experience. To my knowledge the 2500HD and the 3500 are the same except for the Bud Wheels.

A "DOOLEY" will be more stable for sure, but if you don't need it why go in debt again.

check out www.gmsupplierdiscount.com

click you zone of the country and see the deals.
I beleive they are offering $1500 CASH or 1.9%. Then you have to find a truck you like before you get rid of the one you got.

IMHO if what you have is working for you why change.

Good Luck to YOU!!!!!

GMC ;)

James S

07-08-2002, 08:16

Hey There,

I am somewhat confused, because for as long as I can remember, the 2500HD has been offered in a crew cab as well. There as some on here who have them. If I were you, I would upgrade to that, INSTEAD of a 3500 crew cab. It is more stable, I agree, but if you are pulling the trailer without any problems with this, why spend the extra money, which is not that much. A guy I know who has a dewal wheeler, says they are a pain in the a**, especially if you get a flat on an inside wheel. Just my two cents worth. Let us know what you end up doing, but definitely get the crew cab in a 2500HD.

James

Desert Diesel

07-08-2002, 08:55

ThumbScott,

With that pin weight I wouldn't go with anything less than a 3500.
A 2500 is only rated at 9200lbs.
My crew cab weighs 7290 empty(including 400lbs of extra fuel)add 2900 in pin weight and your at 10,190 without passengers and gear. You would have almost 6000lbs on the rear wheels alone.
There will be plenty of people who will argue otherwise but I just wouldn't feel safe at that weight.

Regards,

David

zip

07-08-2002, 09:15

Thumbscott-- I gotta agree with DesertDiesel-
you're overloading the 2500. You know better than
most how heavy the Travel Supreme is. The power to pull might be ok, but you also have to stop the rig.
I have read some great articles on the rv web sites that you can benefit from.
www.rv.net
www.irv2.com
Good places to start- Wish I could afford a Travel Supreme. See ya.
zip

[ 07-08-2002: Message edited by: zip ]</p>

IndigoDually

07-08-2002, 10:17

If you pull your trailer rather frequently and travel some longer distances then I would definitely reccomend the 3500. If you only occasionally tow, only go short distances then you can get by with the 2500. Your pin weight exceeds the rating for the 2500, You have compensated some by adding air-lifts, but now the limiting factor is tire rating. The 2500 and the 3500 have the same rear-end, the 3500 has overload springs that take more weight, the extra 2 tires also contribute to the higher rear axle capacity.

On the plus side, most of the accessories that you have added should be able to be transfered to the new truck. Sure you are taking a hit to the wallet replacing your truck, but low mileage clean diesels are pretty valuable so the resale should be pretty good. The financing is a plus and if you can move into a newer vehicle for less payment then I would go for it.

A crew-cab dualie is not too bad to drive and park, my wife drives it to work daily and parks at a hospital in the city without any problems. In the winter she even takes it to work with the snow plow on.

Good Luck with your decision,

John

SoCalDMAX

07-08-2002, 10:30

I agree, get the 3500 CC. GM is offering 0% financing again, the payments will be more per mo. due to the shorter term, but free money is always good. ;)

Regards, Steve

johns

07-08-2002, 13:18

Hey IndigoDually

We're pretty close. I'm at Station 14-Fire !!!!!

ThumbScott

I also agree about the 3500. With that trailer you are much better off with the 3500. But then I get pretty anal about the towing weights.

[ 07-08-2002: Message edited by: johns ]</p>

ThumbScott

07-08-2002, 13:25

Ouch they only want to give me 24K for the trade in. OUCH! I put 3K down and have made extra payments. I didn't think it would be that low. This would be a money making deal for them. The dealer says he will call back with the final price this evening. I told him the deal is all contingent on his trade in price. Gave them a price per month and said no matter what it can not be over that amount. We will see.

Plan B is another dealer looking for me a truck. The good thing is I don't have to trade.

In your advice would a crew cab long box be better then a x-cab short box for towing? Does the longer truck give more stability, dually or not? There are 2500HD's all over here in crews. If that was the case I would just wait until 2003 or 2004. The truck I have has been the best truck so far I've had from GM and this is my first diesel.

Does the dually have bigger breaks? Breaking is my problem for safety. That is the whole reason for going to a dually or 1 ton. Since the 2500HD and 3500 pull the same weight. Are there any other differences?

SoCalDMAX

07-08-2002, 15:13

I think the big advantage a dooly has over a 2500 is the extra pin weight and added safety of having 4 tires in back vs 2. My understanding is that the extra track width does not add stability unless anti-sway bars or active suspension are added (this is from a discussion about big campers and swaying.)

For the length and weight of trailer you're towing, I'd feel much safer with a 3500 CC over a 2500 EC.

Don't let the dealer mess with you. Only haggle one item at a time. Print out the invoice price from Edmunds.com and play hardball, they still make over $1,500 at invoice. Then time it so you get the 0% fin. from GMAC.

There's a front and back end to every deal, if the dealer is willing to give you book on your trade in, he's making it up on the front with the price of the new vehicle. I never trade in.

Sell yours through Ebay, I routinely see new Dmaxes selling on Ebay for more than I paid for mine new. If you're reasonable about how much you're losing for the miles you've driven it, I'm sure you could get much closer to $30K for it on Ebay. Just set your reserve price to where you want it or some clown will get it for $50. ;)

Regards, Steve

midwestdmax29

07-08-2002, 17:09

I agree with getting the 3500 also. If I could live with one day to day, I'd have one now. My truck pulls just fine, but I'm right at the safe limit for stock suspension and I could use some more side loading stability as well. An inside dual flat may suck, but what about a flat on the rig you have now with 2900 on the pin? You can't be too safe.

JEBar

07-08-2002, 18:25

Fully realizing that no vehicle offers the perfect answer to every situation ... for pulling a heavy trailer (as outlined above) I concur with those who say, for safety and other reasons given, that the 3500 is the way to go. From driving several 2500's prior to purchasing a 3500, I found the ride of the 3500 to be much less harsh (three stage springs as opposed to two stage) which has proven to be a most welcome quality on extended runs. They are both fine vehicles .... in the end, you'll have to decide which best meets your needs. :cool:

Maverick

07-08-2002, 18:59

I own both 2500HD and 3500 Duramax/Allison power trucks. The 3500 is the hands down winner when it comes to towing heavy. You will feel more stability and way less sidewall flex of the tires with a dually. I had a flat on the right inside dual that I had repaired on Sat. I didn't even know it was flat. The extra tire got me home and I didn't even know it. If it were a SRW I would be changing a tire on the side of the road somewhere. Dually all the way.

TimT

07-08-2002, 21:53

Just for grins, slide yourself under the back end of a 3500 and have a look see at the brakes. Those discs are monsters. I've got a 36' Travel Supreme- GVW with full fuel, no water and my bride onboard- 24360lbs certified scale too. Don't remember the axle weights, but they were right up there with the ratings from GM. Totally stable from stopped to 75 mph. I never had to try the panic stop thing, (hope I never do) but it will stop. :cool:

ThumbScott

07-09-2002, 06:27

Thank you for the info. Much appreciated.

Well the dealer I was trying to work with didn't give me a good enought trade in value for my truck. About 3K short of what I owed.

I've never understood this type of business. They could sell a new truck to someone that walked on their lots this week. Done, sealed delivered and paid but they want to always try to work the extra angle of ripping us off. 24k for a truck with 28,000 miles on it that stickered for 39,750 20 months ago. NOT going to happen.

I would be so much nicer and cumfy to have a crew cab for family but I am completely happy with my 2500HD Duramax Allison. Except the dually aspect and the 3500 king pin capacity.

I do wonder if I could put the three leaf spring setup from a 3500 under my rear 2500HD for extra capacity on the king pin weight? I am only a few hundred over?

trailhorserider

07-09-2002, 07:46

Thumbscott,
You asked about the stability of the crew vs. X cab. I'm towing a 32' (total length) horse trailer that weights in at 13,500 lbs or so. "Pin" weight empty is around 3100 lbs, so with the horses and other stuff I would estimate 3500+ lbs (the 3 horses are mostly over the rear axle). My regular cab 3500 is absolutely stable when pulling that trailer. I wouldn't hesitate to tow any of the trailers being discussed with any of the 3500 configurations, but I wouldn't want to tow anything this heavy with a 2500HD even with improvements to the rear suspension. I might feel different if I did not have horses in the back end.

RickT

01_Duramax_Dually

07-09-2002, 08:14

Just adding to the confirmation...I would definetly go with the 3500. I think ultimatley you have more versatility with a 3500 in regards to towing and so on. The down side is that the 3500 CC LB Dually...(ooops sorry MDRAG...."DOOLEY") is so long you cannot possibly ever park it in a standard garage...For me in California this does create a problem, but for the Mid West and Back East owners the weather is not as plesant and can be down right brutal at times, this could be a factor to consider....

Carry On... :D

zip

07-09-2002, 14:16

ThumbScott-- here's something else to throw into the mix. You're now $3000 dif in trading in,right? How long will it take you to pay $3000 in payments to your current lender? 5 months? 4 months? Can you wait that long to buy a new one? The selling price of a new one won't get any higher; your trade-in might drop a little. But you'll be a lot closer to being able to make the deal.
zip

gun runner

07-09-2002, 15:01

THUMBSCOTT- I have towed for over 20 years across the country with 3/4 ton Suburbans , to 1-ton crewcabs.
My advice is to buy the correct vehicle to do the job. Don't buy something underated and try to band-aid it to work! Been there ,done that!
You really want an over-kill situation;towing.

That's my 2 cents-

odoh

07-09-2002, 16:30

I'm thinking that the market for used trucks is slow at the moment due to the rebates/creative financing on all major makes & models. The new truck market is very competitive ~ to the buyers benefit. Of the used trucks, the duramax surely would be the exception ~ but still diminished somewhat due to the foregoing. I for one, would look at the used duramax and think that for just a few grand more, I'll have my own 'new' duramax. I've done that more than once w/other vehicles and I'm sure most others would do the same.
Your truck is doing you well. Its faithful and trouble free at the moment. The 03 model yr is still young and the 04's are not yet on the horizon. Time is on your side. Keep an eye open for a decent deal but don't talk yourself into less than desireable deal when you absolutely don't have to. ~ odoh

IndigoDually

07-09-2002, 16:59

Changing the springs is only part of the solution. You will then be limited by tire and wheel ratings. The dually has the advantage because there are 4 tires and wheels not just 2.

John

mowser

07-10-2002, 20:30

The "TIP" of the "ICEBERG" is in British Columbia, Canada; IF you are "OVER" the stated GVWR (GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING) of the truck or of the AXLE RATING (GROSS AXLE RATING) front or back; or the GVWR (GROSS VEHICLE RATING) of the trailer or the (GROSS AXLE RATING) of any axle on the trailer you are in deep doo doo. The R.C.M.P. (ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE) can ask you to run over the scales, and if you are over any of the above, you will get a "BIG" ticket and you'll get to park your rig until you find something that is capable to handle the load..........

I see this as becoming the "FUTURE" norm in North America (ALONG WITH SPECIAL DRIVING LICENSE ENDORSEMENTS FOR HEAVY 5TH WHEELS) as has been already implemented in British Columbia ......and I've also read that "INSURANCE COMPANIES" in North America, are also looking at GCWR'S (GROSS COMBINED WEIGHT RATINGS) when looking at insurance claims........ I"d just rather play by rules...... BUT; JUST HOW LUCKY DO "YOU" FEEL??????? :rolleyes:

ThumbScott

07-23-2002, 05:40

Well I wanted to post back in. New 3500 Chevy, D-max, Allison, LT, Forest Green will be pickup up this afternoon. I am happy to have found one.

I am getting my 20k hitch installed this weeked and I will post the difference in pulling and stopping as soon as I tow. I am very curious and I hope this change was worth it.

Looked out in the garage and ole red is gone. I did the right thing and sold it outright to a non discount customer that got one heck of a deal. They are happy and I am happy also to know ole red went to a good new home. This way I can see er every now and then.

Man these pictures of the new truck make it look huge compared to my old truck.

Now the question is chrome accents or black? I got to get running boards. Mother can't get in without a stool. She's getting up in years and has bad knees. Respect thee elders as the book says.

I am excited and hoping all goes well this afternoon.

Thank you for all the good advice and your time responding. Much appreciated.

mowser

07-28-2002, 19:57

I'm really glad to see that you've made the right decision in upgrading to the 3500, you won't be disappointed. I'm also impressed with your colour choice....that's the colour that I originally wanted until I found out that I could order a Silver one (Fleet order).....actually I think the green would have matched our 5th wheel better but I just wanted a Silver truck.........

All the best, mowser

ThumbScott

07-29-2002, 05:24

mowser where did you get your side boards. I am looking for something for my truck.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. 5 days old and someone wacked the side with a cart and put a foot long crease in the drivers door. Very sad I am.

mowser

07-29-2002, 05:37

ThumbScott,

The steps are made by Luverne, www.luvernetruck.com (they're called stainless steel side entry steps).
Sorry to see you're truck got wacked :(

mowser

BobNelson

07-29-2002, 06:58

Thumbscott.... Take a real close look at mousers truck.... lots of nice stuff and a class act...

You should never park where carts are... The Doooolly, gives you and excuse to get some exercise... always park away from every one, and never downhill from where they release carts..

mouser.... hope the wine left on your front porch in Anmore was used appropriately ;)