"THE DREADED TICK" We can figure this out, can't we?

[Billy14]

I have 8,500 miles on my 2002 truck & two oil changes done by my dealer. NO TICK. Hold on, I'm looking for some real wood to beat on. O.K.

Friends of mine bought an identical truck to mine with exception of color a few weeks ago. NO TICK!

Against my advice, they decided to change their own oil at 600 miles to save a few bucks, which I don't fault them at all for this. The trucks cost enough as it is. They called the dealer & used the same oil (quaker state). Same dealer I use.

You got it. THEY NOW HAVE THE TICK & according to them it's so loud it's drivin em nuts. They say it sounds like beating a tire tool against the engine.

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN TO THESE ENGINES TO CAUSE THIS NOISE BY DRAINING THE OIL & REPLACING THE FILTER???

I have read threads on this subject through the forum till I'm cross-eyed. All the input just doesn't add up to a solution. It can't be the oil or grade. If so, then why no Tick from GM, drain & refil the oil and BOOM, there it is. :confused:

Taking a more ligical approach, it seems to me that cavitation somewhere in the engine is the culprit. Doesn't it? Air trapped somewhere & can't escape. If the Dmax has a spring loaded piston type pressure relief, this could cause the metallic tapping sound if fluttering. I've witnessed this on other engines. I have also seen air trapped in a geared pump that caused noises but most of the time pressure won't come up either. Haven't heard of any pressure problems.

I'm going to stop by my dealer this morning. Maybe they don't drain all the oil out past the pick-up screen. Maybe they fill the new filter with oil before installing. I haven't looked yet but I think the Dmax filter is a horizontal mount. If so, this wouldn't work.

I'm just searching here, grabbing straws if you will. There has to be a logical reason for this phenomenon. I really believe that with all the intelligent people on this forum, including those who actually work on these trucks for a living, someone can come up with a reason, & a solution.

I think my buddies are a little TICKED at me too! redface.gif Please excuse the pun.

Billy

[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: Billy14 ]

[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Billy14 ]</p>

[MudNurI]

well,,

let me add to the "fire"..

our truck now has 19,575 miles on her- 2001 2500 HD Crew Cab. Built 6/11/01 took deliver on 10/30/01

oil was changed at 1000 miles- no tick

next change at 8,000 miles- think I heard the tick...

changed again at 15,000 miles-every now and then you can hear the tick- usually in the morning, when you first start it...but by the time you go back outside to leave the house- its gone, never have I heard it in anything but Park.

oil changed every time at dealer- same dealer- same mechanic....same oil

I did call the 800 number to get a file going for the truck- when the first rattle came from the steering shaft when I called I also logged the tick- though at that time, I had only "thought" I heard it.

but, now when I think I hear it- I just "blow it off"....it may tick- but its really just a purr- of the kitten, ready to ROAR!

Brandy

[EIS01]

I had it for the first 15,000 miles or so. The last 6,000 I have not heard it. That is a good thing...but I don't know if it went away by itself or if it was the Delvac 1, I started to use at 15,000 miles that made it go away. Anyway, good luck with your trucks, Kevin

[NutNbutGMC]

^...The tick has been figured out. I'm not sure why most refuse to accept it as a Dmax characteristic. MechanicWillie is on the money.

http://forum.62-65-dieselpage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=002759

The only thing left out was a picture. :D :D

[MudNurI]

I accept it, however I also am a little leary, with the way GM is so eager to say its normal.. Its pretty much the same thing as when they had such a problem with their paint/primer mishap back in the late 80's. I have an 89 3/4 ton that had some paint flakes, from about 2 years old, at 5 years old I finally decided to talk to the body shop guy at our dealer- and ended up getting the entire truck painted. However if you read back in the archives of GMs bulletins, they said over and over that there was NO problem with the paint, it was "customer error" etc... when washing, using a high pressure power washer, or stuff like that. I think thats why people are still not that accepting of what GM says.

our 99 Z-71 had horrible seatbelts, I kept complaining to the dealer about them, "nothing wrong ma'am, thats how they work"...for months, finally a little envelope from the General arrives, telling me their is a Recall- wierd, how they said for months that they were fine, but ended up recalling them for the same problem we had.. Maybe after these have been around for a bit longer, and more people end up putting some serious miles on them, with no problems, we all will be able to sleep better. But for now, I still recommend getting a log started on your truck if you have a tick, it can't hurt! Who knows what can or may happen a few miles, or years down the road. Better safe than sorry I say.

Brandy

[N.E. TMRPR]

Just a thought here. Has anyone changed their oil and not changed the filter too. Could it be something with the filters themselves. My truck has always had the tick but goes away with the usual 1000 miles on oil change. I tried changing oil and not the filter and there was no tick. Maybe just a coincidence but has anyone else tried this?

[mdrag]

Mine's a ticker from day one.

First oil change w/Delvac 1300/AC Delco PF2232 - still ticking. No oil analysis performed.

Second oil change with Delvac 1/Baldwin B1441 - NO ticking with the Delvac 1. No oil analysis performed.

Third oil change with Delvace 1300/Baldwin B1441 - tick returned immediately. Oil analysis looked good on the Delvac 1 synthetic.

Next oil change will be with Delvac 1 and see what happens...

[Billy14]

Like & said, I don't have the TICK after two oil changes. I had the dealer do it. It's a friend of mine that changed their own oil at 600 miles. No TICK before the oil change.

The dealer says there are some filters out there some are getting that are supposedly recommended for the Dmax but DO NOT have the pressure relief valve in the filter.

Don't know if this is true but if it is, might be causing some to TICK.

Billy

[Silver Bullet]

Looks like some didn't get the memo about the ball bearing in the oil pan...as soon as you find the right oil/engine combo for your truck it will stop ping-ponging around the oil pan!!! smile.gif

My tick started after the first oil change at approx. 2,750 miles. I put in Rotella T dino juice, but I may make a move to syn. for the next change and see if my results are the same as Mdrag's.

[SDWA]

I noticed while installing my preluber that there is a 3/8" pressure relief/bypass piston in the oil filter housing/base (about the 5 o'clock position, outer ring) that apparently redirects returning oil back into the engine, bypassing the filter. When you press in on it, it makes a distinct popping sound.

It appears to be spring loaded and adjustable from the rear (or, from the front, depending on how you look at it...) - is it possible that some tickers are adjusted at too low a threshold and the change of oil and a slight variation in viscosity causes this relief to be more active???

If this relief system is there, why does the oil filter need a bypass too?

Just my 2 pennies. Luckily, I don't have the tick.... yet.

Scott

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: SDWA ]</p>

[xpladox]

OK I don't know squat but the only thing "I" see that has not been dismissed yet is whether one primes the new filter before inserting it. Mine has never ticked and I always prime the filter. The people that changed theirs by themselves I am going to assume (bad idea) that they did not. And immediately theirs began to tick. This could account for the tick that usually goes away after a thousand miles because finally all the air has been moved out of a filter that was not primed. This could also account for the varrying degrees of the tick. A semi primed filter does not tick as loud as a filter that was not primed at all. Somebody please disagree with me on this because it makes way too much sense so far.

[Billy14]

Xpladox,

This is one of the areas I thought might be causing the TICK problem but:

I've let the dealer do the first two changes on mine so I haven't seen a filter off the truck. One of my questions was being a horizontal mounted filter, can you get enough oil in it to do any possible good.

You may have answered this as yes, until someone posts they have primed the filter & still have the TICK.

Billy

[mdrag]

I always pre-fill the new filter with as much oil as possible before installing, waitng for the element to soak it up, then adding more until it is practically full. My servicing is done on a service lift so I can get it on without losing too much...

[Silver Bullet]

Something SDWA said made me think (and yes, it hurt! smile.gif ) about my first oil change and something that is different (other than the oil) is my filter is not screwed on near as tight as the original filter. It took forever to break it loose. I may be reaching a little, but are there any moving parts where the filter is mounted that could make the TICK if the filter is not on super-duper-chevy tight!?!?!?

[3176CATPOWER]

At my first oil change I filled the filter slowly to within a half inch of the top and installed it with out looseing more than a drop or two,surprized me too.But after engine was started the clicken ticken,spark plug wire jumpen,type writer tappen noise was there for the first time.I am convinced the noise is caused by air getting into system some how when oil is drained and filter replaced.The next day I fired her up and no ticken until the temp got up to 165.Took her out and got the engine up to 190 and no ticken to be heard.Have not drove it for several days so do not know if it is gonna tick again.Note that this ticken noise is in a class by it self not to be confused with diesel clatter or lifter noise and is only heard at idle up to about 900 rpm.If your engine made this noise I am sure you would know it is the genuine tick.From some of the posts I have read a few think this is a normal noise to be heard from a diesel engine,not!

[YZF1R]

Billy14 - Pressure relief valve.
SDWA - Pressure relief valve.
I brought up this same idea some time back but got no response on it. I have never heard it but it would sound like a relief valve snapping back to it's seat from what I gather. As for the valve in the filter, I had always thought they worked the other way. Not a pressure relief, but a check valve to keep the upper end oil from draining back down when the engine is off, thus giving more of the engine oil pressure sooner after re-start.
I'm glad to see that I am not alone with thinking about this possibility.
mdrag - I'm not familier with Delvac. If the two are different viscocities or DINO verses synthetic that could make a difference do to how easily they flow or hold pressure.
If the bypass in the filter mount is adjustable, is anyone going to try bumping it up just a LITTLE tighter? Hook up a real oil pressure gage to make sure everything is within specs while doing this. I suppose the Helms manuals would tell you what is the max alowable pressure at so and so an RPM with the engine at operating temp. Perhaps turning it down a LITTLE might do something.
Like I said, I have never heard it but it sounds to me an awfull lot like a pressure relief valve snapping back or "fluttering" as Billy14 said.
Steve

[YZF1R]

Sorry, somehow I sent it twice.

[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: YZF1R ]</p>

[Silver Bullet]

Something SDWA said made me think (and yes, it hurt! smile.gif ) about my first oil change and something that is different (other than the oil) is my filter is not screwed on near as tight as the original filter. It took forever to break it loose. I may be reaching a little, but are there any moving parts where the filter is mounted that could make the TICK if the filter is not on super-duper-chevy tight!?!?!?

[Wally]

Some do it and some don't! Mine has always been changed by me with Delo 15-40. Never ticked that I could say,"yep that's it". Occasionally I imagine that I hear it but it is never very loud and nothing like the wave file someone posted awhile back.
As for oil filters, I have used four, two of the generic white ones and two blue all from the dealer. Every one of them has been tighter than Richards hat band when it came time for removal.
Seems as if they tighten themselves. :eek:

[drmike]

How do you prime an oil filter, simply by filling it with oil?

[DieselJames]

In the April Fools Posting

[Billy14]

This is really getting interesting. Seems as though a lot of you, or us, are beginning to narrow this down to a few areas of the engine.

The oil filter, mount, & hardware associated around & with it appear to be where most of the attention is being directed. Maybe we're not correct on our theories but a least many are getting together in an attempt to pinpoint the dreaded TICK. This is apposed to a couple of GM engineers that leave the plant daily in their Ford or Chrysler products (probably cars for the most part) not hearing a TICK on the way to the bank to cash their weekly paychecks. tongue.gif

I think the idea of the stethoscope mentioned as an April Fools Joke in an earlier post is really a great idea. Wouldn't hurt to try. I used to use one to find sticky lifters & it worked well.

Please understand I am not attempting to directly be-little GM's engineers. They have in fact designed & produced a beautiful, strong, & wonderful truck that I am sure most all of us are VERY pleased with. It's just that one of their strongest selling points of the truck was and still is the somewhat silencing of the typical LOUD diesel noises. One of the main reasons I chose to purchase my first diesel. Then comes the loud TICK that turns heads & the excuse has now become "well, it's just a characteristic of the engine". Balogny! Just as I said when they told me the oversize tires were causing the Allison not to drop into 1st while still applying throttle. They did fix that problem finally.

Keep thinking. I recall something an old aircraft mechanic told me when Cessna, Beech, Lear, & Rockwell couldn't answer his questions. "Remember Billy, ignorance & perseverance overcomes science & skill everytime." Can't tell you how many times this man proved this to be true.

Billy

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: Billy14 ]</p>