View Full Version : The Edge results?
pullinpower
04-01-2002, 09:25
Well has anyone gotten their edge box yet? Let us hear about it,im almost as excited as I was when the xbox was released :D
Plasticfantastic
04-01-2002, 14:44
Xbox??? ANOTHER tuner box is available????? How many HP's out of this one????
(just kidding tongue.gif )
Guys,
I finally received my Edge Juice box and I hate to tell you, I'm underwhelmed. I thought there would be much more power. Don't waste your money, if you've ordered one quickly cancel the order and get a K&N air filter instead. The performance will be comparable.
That's the bad news. The good news is that I'm just kidding, April fools...
He he he,
Hey Kevin, on behalf of all the forum members here: HAPPY BIRTHDAY! :eek:
Must be nice to have a day named after you! :D
In jest of course...
Jake99Z71
04-01-2002, 17:06
Well I called Edge and they have not released the Juice yet. They are expecting to release it this Thursday. So we will all have to wait till then.
I talked to them today, and they said they are back ordered 1000 pieces!
I asked them how long it would be before they could ship if ordered today and they though 1-2 weeks.
:D :D :D :D
[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
madmax7 ,
You got Mail....... smile.gif
MAC :D
pullinpower
04-01-2002, 19:47
c'mon boyz I know someone got one!!! :D
I've ordered one but not from Edge. I suppose it will be a few before I'm smilin' like mackin. :(
kennedy,
Your close, my birthday is only a few days away. Hmmm, maybe I can convince the wifey to buy me some gauges!
SoCalDMAX
04-01-2002, 20:16
OOHHH MAN!
Did I fall for that one, hook, line and sinker!
I'm not kidding, my heart stopped for a second until I read that last line!
I know how carefully Kevin's been looking at all of the specs on the different boxes, and was figuring this one was really gonna knock his socks off.
Well, I guess I probably deserved it. ;)
Waiting for some REAL info... ;)
Looking for his nitro pills, Steve
[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: SoCalDMAX ]</p>
SoCalDMAX
04-01-2002, 20:18
It just occurred to me, if they've already taken orders for 1,000 of these bad boys, it's getting more and more dangerous to be drivin' a stock PSD or Cummins these days... ;)
pullinpower
04-02-2002, 10:03
1,000 orders!!!! Man they must be doing something right. :D
[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: pullinpower ]</p>
Alli-max
04-02-2002, 10:51
somebody at The Edge is pulling somebodies chain.... 1,000 units ordered??? Take a poll on THIS site alon and I bet you wont find 10 guys that have ordered them. And, I bet most of the guys here have heard of them THROUGH this site.
big dipper
04-02-2002, 15:46
I recall someone saying Edge does not deal with the public, only distributors. That would make the 1,000 units ordered more believable. ;)
BD is a distributor and probably ordered several hundred for a nice discount. smile.gif
01_Duramax_Dually
04-02-2002, 16:46
Well I must say...this BOX war is really heating up...I think I will sit back and watch the sparks fly from afar...I am interested but only to some degree. Longevity is #1 and NO Throwing Codes while daily driving and towing is #2..Those are my simple requirements..
How much is the Edge box..? They all seem to be in contact with each other about what the "Market will bear"... :D
I know there is some engineering involved but you have to amoritize that across several thousand boxes not the 1st 500...Will these units come down to under $500???...$400???
I would pay more if they would guarantee me 2 revision upgrades. As always with software, they tweak it a bit and then your $800 dollar box is worthless or not nearly as good as Rev 2...Then you sit back and say "Man...had I waited 3 weeks I could have gotten the better box for 1/2 the price"
Regards
Jeff
01_Duramax_Dually,
Upgrade the box? I believe Edge works with in the Pyrometers of the capacity that the Transmission will bare. Any more is suicide and surely will ruin the tranny.They also do not abuse the fuel system to get all its performance like others. Unless you want to spend another 7/800.00 bucks on tranny upgrade....I believe that it will be the best pound for pound plug in box out. This is MY NON-BIAS got nothing to do with EDGE OPINION>Ask any Cummins owner about their reputation.......I'm glad I waited. No, I didn't get mine yet......On order. One of the first I may add.
MAC :D :D
Mackin,
I second that. Ordered mine as well..that's 2 out of 1000 :eek:
[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Mic ]</p>
Make it 3/1000......... tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif
Edge is a class outfit-if they were to come up with a software improvement for more power I suspect you would be able to buy just the PROM from them fairly cheap.....I know you can buy the Drag programming for the Cummins COMP box from them for around 1/5 the price of the box itself....and if they were to come up with new programming to fix a glitch (hey nobody's perfect right?) I'm willing to bet they'd kick it to you for free-they have revised programming for the COMP to correct a light-throttle surge problem that from what I understand on the TDR they're supplying at no charge-I could be wrong on this one but I don't think so......
I can't tell you anything about the Juice-out of my area of expertise-but if it lives up to their Dodge stuff you guys'll have a whale of a box!
Jason
01_Duramax_Dually
04-03-2002, 09:34
Since we are on the topic of adding power, I have been following this business for awhile. A lot of Cummins owners use these guys and they have quite a reputation west coast wise. Anybody consider this Stage 1 package?
http://www.dieseldynamics.com/
I suspect, as they did with the Cummins set up, they will creep up on bigger power. They just completed my friends 3500 Cummins and got 408HP and 799 ft lbs torque. Now I am not looking for that kind of grunt but a true 50-75HP and 100 ft lbs torque that threw no codes and everything functioned as normal and no box was required would be a pretty nice deal...Any comments Mr Kennedy...Your opinion is always appreciated....
Jeff
Again the only thing I can offer you comes from the world of Cummins-you are correct, DD has a screaming reputation in the Dodge world for POWER POWER POWER! They are supposedly now over 600 hp on #2 alone with 12 valvers or 24 valve with the P-pump conversion-and 550hp out of the 24 with the OE VP44 pump (although the pump is modded). Their Dodge boxes are Edge ones with programming modded to DD's specs. If and when they focus their attention squarely on the Duramax they'll crank out some #'s I'm thinkin....
Jason
I must be #6 then.
Edge has put a lot of work into this box. The Van Aaken/BD box is very hard on the fuel system.
[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: madmax7 ]</p>
Jeff,
Future revision/updates? Well I guess that will depend on the servicing dealer. As some are finding out (another thread) the service isn't always there after the sale.
Reputation? Yes, Edge has an excellent reputation, BUT until they hit the market, get some miles, tow some grades etc, it is just another box making big promises. Im sure we won't be disappointed, but like I said, nobody has one yet. I hope to have one ASAP, but with the missed target date, who knows?
DD? In talking with Steve Cole, his reflash is part of the current DD setup. From what I have seen, this program is quite strong. It is being tweaked a bit as we speak, and should be a really sweet number, as with a reflash one can adjust the pilot independently of the main, not only in timing, but delivery rate and the point at which the pilot cuts off.
All in all, IMHO, they are all good in their own unique way...
01_Duramax_Dually
04-03-2002, 11:57
Mr Kennedy,
As always your "Real World" input is appreciated and respected. I agree they all have their unique abilities and operate accordingly. Since I manually tune my EFI set up with a laptop, I become concerned about a closed box deal with no potential upgrades or change capabilities. I, as any consumer ,just want the best ROI with minimal or no grief. There are so many out there now I have become dazed and confused.
Everyday a "New" box comes out and it is the best thing to hit town since sliced bread.
I agree with you..That box needs to get out and get some seat time on it. I will let the #1 through #6 people :D feed us back with their experiences.
Best Regards
Jeff
Plasticfantastic
04-03-2002, 12:01
Kennedy, you mentioned Steve Cole in reference to the edge box. Is this the same person that has his own tuner box buisness (TTS powertuners) ???
Duramax_Duelly,
Did you say you manually tune your EFI with a laptop? DO Tell. Is this a PC Program you use? Windows OS? Is there one for MAC? Is this a serial connection, USB? Where do you plug into the truck. Where do I get the software? FASCINATED! This is what I was hoping would exist. I don't need boxes to tell my truck how to run, I want to be able to tell it myself. Infinitely adjustable. PLEASE TELL MORE. Thanks in advance.
Yes, I'm also interested in this software. PLEASE let us know.
A question for Mr Kennedy-- I notice on your web site that you distribute a number of these boxes (EZ AMP, Dynomite, etc) Any relative comparisons you would be willing to share? From what I have read, the EDGE box will do all that the EZ AMP will do, but without messing with the fuel pressure? Is that true, or even important, and what are the other advantages/disadvantages? :confused:
01_Duramax_Dually
04-03-2002, 16:06
Whooaaaaaaa Nellie Fella's
Back the Duramax Truck up for a moment....
Miscommunication here.
I have a Centrifically blown, EFI, intercooled Race car that has a programmable PCM manufactured by Speed Pro. I have the flexability of tuning it with a Laptop..Matter of fact when you get the PCM it has nothing in it so you have to develop your Fuel Map Vs KPa and so on....
I CANNOT do this to my truck...(MAN HOW I WISH I COULD)
Sorry it came out like that.....
However when it does..I will be the first to be tuning it.
DOH!!!!
Waste of an hour hovering over this threat waiting for the super setup of a lifetime. O well.
J. Kennedy,
What are you saying you warranty the performance enhancement? In other words you being a distributor, you rewrap and throw away the manufactures warranty and give your own? I would assume I could go directly to the manufacture NO? When I get my Edge box and if I bought it from you, and it comes with that warranty card does it have YOUR address on it? Would someone register the serial number with you not the manufactory? What if you went out of business prior to the expiration of my warranty? I'm up the creek? If I am having a problem in CT will you go on a road trip? Please explain. Not trying to be a smart A** but if your going to sell it here explain it here. After all you are dissing someone else's after the sale service. I mean you can buy them right from the source EDGE........Won't they stand behind it. Be more specific......
MAC :confused: :confused:
Plasticfantastic,
Yep, Steve Cole is associated with TTS Power Systems.
vetman,
Edge builds both the Juice box and BD's Amp box. They should have essentially the same capability.
[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: AzKevin ]</p>
Jason,
Welcome aboard. Nice to see another friendly from the "other forum" Are you watching my back at the TDR while I'm away? Your views and comments will be refreshing from the some times stagnant posts here........ LOL
MAC :D :D
huntindog
04-03-2002, 20:40
Mackin, I just read your post critizing Kennedy. I then went back and read his post. I didn't get the same impression as you. In fact just the opposite. Kennedy appears to be non biased towards any of the products.
"All in all, IMHO, they are all good in their own unique way..."
Maybe you have other issues that I don't know about. If so I don't care, but I just can't see your point of view from what I've read here.
Cheers!
Mackin,
My reference was to the other thread where the servicing dealer was apparently unfamiliar with the product updates available. The originator of the post did the "dissing" not me.
Warranty ultimately ends up at the mfr, just like if you had a problem with your truck. The key is in the EXECUTION of any warranty or update issues. This is handled by the servicing dealer. Again, as many have learned with programming updates, obtaining them can be a difficult experience...
Hey Mac-I'm just sitting on my hands over here-I seem to manage to stir up enough over on the TDR :D :D . You guys don't have arguments over auto tranny stuff, Amsoil, or K&N's over in these parts do ya? 'Cause I was thinking about starting a thread on my new K&N tranny filter combined with Amsoil that multiplies my power by a factor of 3.983.......
instigatorJ!
smile.gif :D smile.gif :D smile.gif :D
[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: xpladox ]</p>
:D :D ;) ;) smile.gif
MAC
[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]
[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
JK,
Warranty ultimately ends up at the mfr. That is my point they have to stand behind their product no matter where you bought it....I understand your point of EXECUTION of a claim, but if you are not satisfied , Or they no longer sell or for what ever reasons, MFG. it is......
MAC..........
JHANSEN
Sorry to disappoint you but: but we don't do that here ;) We mix it up just a little on oil, and filters. It really gets going when someone brings a package from "THE OTHER SIDE" :D :D
Then you had better watch out :rolleyes: LOL Although some of these guys a pretty witty on there responses makes it all worth reading........See ya around NEWBIE......LOL
MAC
:D :D
[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
To All,
I go back over and read my post to JK and all I find is Legitimate questions. Most people know JK has a marketable captive audience here. So he should be real specific, and He did he posted a reply..... If someone didn't know you had more then one place to go to for warranty problems,updates they do now. I mean in all reality some people think they have to go to the stealer for work on there vehicles warranty or not.It would be preferred but is not mandatory. Lighten up .......not looking to insight a riot...
Maybe some sarcasm no criticism I am familiar with his knowledge
MACKIN
[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
No package deliveries here.....I know better than that! ;) I don't much like it when someone comes to my house and lays the smack down on me (and don't get me wrong-TDR is a long long ways from my house-more like Patton's house!)....so why do it at someone else's pad? Who knows-I may learn something over here! May be even able to impart some knowledge myself.....not likely but still a possibility! :D
Mr. Personality Himself!
amazingJ
Hey Mackin,
I really didn't mean to upset you that much. Maybe just a little bit because I felt that you were trying to "instigate" a little bit of trouble. I take back what I said about your mother, again sorry that it came across as a threat. I admit that my first post was less than stellar. I was just so excited at the time, I had to express it. I was cruising through your pictures and just said to myself "How can I go through life not getting along with somebody with such a nice looking truck". Your front end sure sits high. Do the one tons sit higher than the three quarter tons? I have a 3 Quarter ton 4x4 and it just doesnt look like it sits that high.
Peace
As the infamous Rodney King said: "Can't we all just get along?" ha ha. :D :D :D
xpladox,
It is not a problem at all. Done and over...Lets not go back or rehash a thing... Where is Rodney in jail I hope...... ;) All I ever will insight is laughter I hope. Now enough of that. WE are hear to talk TRUCKS. As far as my front end I raised my torsion bars. Never had one I didn't. That one is turned up 4 cranks......Ride quality is fine. They are plush to begin with. I will upgrade shocks someday. Have a lot of wants... The juice should be here soon. Still juggling which exhaust system. The big one is tires for those rims getting dusty in the boxes in my basement,AAHGGGGG :mad: I want MICHELIN XPS Ribs 235/85/16 big bucks 9 Benneys + with spacers. Thanks for the compliment on my truck I'm sure yours is to extremely nice too. Just want to tweak mine a little. It's time. Take care "TILL WE POST AGAIN" Hay when I run my spell checker Rodney comes up Rodent <GO FIGURE> LOL
MAC :D :D
As a sign of good intentions I'm going to go back and delete that post....... smile.gif
[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
If the Juice backs off as the TC starts to slip, isn't a bit too late? Once a TC starts to slip, it will slip earlier the next time (I believe). Speaking from experience, my TC started slipping slightly and continued to get worse until I had my tranny upgraded. My old TC was totally fried by the time it was replaced. I was always careful to back off if I ever noticed it slipping, but my stock TC lasted less than a year. I'm a big fan of Edge Products, so don't think that I'm slamming them or GM. I'm just curious.
Kevin
My Sig didn't show up, but I'm driving a Dodge.
Your right it would be best to fix the slipping problem. There are suppose to be some aftermarket tranny upgrades on the way. Transmission Specialists has a few Allison upgrades on the way including a valve body.
First let me say, I reserve the right to change my opinions at a later date! ;)
I believe the Allison slippage to be 5th gear clutch related, and not rooted in the torque convertor. A valve body may help, but I believe it will come down to a hardware issue in the actual clutch/drum area. As for monitoring slippage, I have to be a bit skeptical, as the GM/Allison computers aren't all that good at it themselves...
The key to power, I believe lies in the core program. There are a lot more forces at play here than meet the eye. No single module will likely be able to overcome all of them. A module will still be the quick and easy way, and PLENTY good for the vast majority. The true power freaks will be into the base program, and possibly add a module on top of this. Of course, the trans is the key limiting factor (among other things) and will need to be addressed. An additional 300+ lb/ft of torque is really not that difficult to achieve on straight number 2 so when the trans mods come around the Dmax will be ready!
I to believe the slippage will be in the clutches not the TC. I posted on that valve body upgrade trying to get some info from the experts on what would be the great improvement. Isn't the built in protection in the ALLISON supposed to sense an over power condition and throw it into limp before it slips? So no damage? Or some damage? What does it "FEEL "to know it? Can it tell that an internal HOLE SHOT in the clutch pack is about to begin. If it knows something before it happens WOW. Just speculating, does it have to do with pressure that's why an increase in volume and pressure with a valve body upgrade do the trick? To eliminate clutch slippage?
This is going to get very Techie I can feel it coming, try not to lose us.LOL I'm going to have to send another tuition check for my education I'm getting here.....
MAC :D
What does the Ford and Dodge's do in this case without an Allison??
Is slippage more damaging to an Allison than the Ford and Dodge tranny's? :confused:
I have put mine into a slip situation (not something I want to do repeatedly) and have found that it will do it for at least a couple of seconds prior to taking action. I have also had it slip and NOT set a single code! I can at will, slip it in fifth gear if I turn on too much power...
The transmission watches ISS (input slip speed) and OSS (output slip speed) and knows the ratio of the gear you are in. If things get out of the "window" it is supposed to set a code.
CUMINNTSTRKN
04-05-2002, 09:41
we have aftermarket fixes for our tranny's. my bd race tranny has extra clutch's, a new convertor and treated shafts. it also has a new valve body.
the problem with the allison is that it is smart enough to no when it's slipping. it's funny the allison was supposed to be the end all tranny, but you guys have the same problems we and the ford guys have when you turn up the power.
imo no one can make more power than the juice box, becuase they make as much power as the stock tranny can take.
jim
You know your right the Allison shifts and works in must cases flawlessly. If you work within its intentions as it was supplied it is OK for the application. I like very much and it feels very strong, but I to was under the impression it was the mother of all trannys. I thought no matter what was thrown at it would take it."BULLET PROOF " just goes to show don't leave home without your flack jacket and American Express. Not that I am disappointed but I cannot believe I have to consider BEEFING it up to BOMB it...WOW
MAC :eek:
Unfortunately, with Dodge, Ford, and GM, the auto tranny is the biggest limiting factor for significant power upgrades. It's also generally the most expensive part of upgrading. My tranny was o.k. for 8 months with an Edge EZ alone (65 RWHP gain), but as soon as I added injectors and the Edge COMP box (at max about a 200 RWHP gain), it was all over (I had already planned to upgrade the tranny). I ran with the COMP off or on level 1 for about a month and in that time the TC went from o.k. to slipping at moderate throttle.
Kevin
[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: KevinK ]</p>
saynotoford
04-09-2002, 13:45
So where does it go from here?
Is the answer for more power headed toward manual transmissions, or is an aftermarket company working on upgrades for the Allison?
Cuminntstrks-
How does your transmission work making all that power? Do you know if anyone is working on beefing up the Allison?
Keep in mind, our Allison works very well up to about 330 RWHP. Try that with a Dodge and it wont last long.
Not trying to defend Allison so much as point out that it is plenty capable of handling out stock 300HP , and a solid amount of additional HP wheras the Dodge transmission is pretty stretched with a stock engine...
Ford and Dodge are coming out with higher powered engines next year. It appears that they are going to be in trouble with their trannys'.
I am just surprised that the Allison, for being a "medium duty" transmission, is engineered for such a small HP difference over the competition. Other than the ablility to hold total GCWR on the parking pawl, the other differences (for the cost) aren't that great.
Am I missing something?? :confused:
I think we need to BARK up GM'S tree on the Allison not being able to take the heat.. Rumor has it that it was built to GM specs.... Why coudn't the General let Allison go it alone ,and then just bolt it on? Like a BOMBERS true HERO.......Is it true?
MAC :D :D
Suggested reading from the Allison website:
http://www.allisontransmission.com/product/series/1000series_specificationsheets***p
1000 SeriesTM Specification Sheet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SPECIFICATIONS
One-Way Rental, North American School Bus, General Purpose Truck Rating
Gross input power: 375 hp (280 kW)
Gross input torque: 545 lb-ft (740 N
I don't anything for sure about what GM's thought were when they spec'd the 1000 series Allison. However, if I were to guess I would say they wanted a 4L80 type smoothness with the durability of a medium duty Allison. I don't think you can have both. I drove an Allison equipped IH truck 18 months. Smooth is not what comes to mind, but durable does. That truck was run hard every day and never did we have down time due to the tranny. When I first saw the specs on the Allison I was dissapointed. I was expecting much more (apparently others were to). When I bought my 01-3500 I expected the tranny to be the last thing I would have to worry about. Like others I also expected it to be the last word in an auto tranny. I don't think thats the case. It may be the best out right now but only because the alternatives are so poor. I don't know for sure but I suspect that most problems reported here are tranny related not Duramax related. I personally would sacrafice some drivability issues if I could have a tranny that would hold a gear when towing, add 200 foot pounds and not slip, not cost $2200. Kinda sounds like a turbo 400. Funny how things end up going full circle.
pinehill
04-09-2002, 23:18
We all need to remember that a manufacturer specs and designs a vehicle to appeal to as many as possible in a target market. The extreme bombers represent a very small fraction of GM's HD light truck market. I think that they were right on the button with the 1000 series Allison.
Tsss says, "I don't know for sure but I suspect that most problems reported here are tranny related not Duramax related." I can't agree. Most of the problems we've all seen (aside from component failures or assembly problems) result from the failure of GM to do a good job of properly interfacing the DMax to the Allison so that the best performance can be extracted from each.
What we have here is a transmission that has plenty of headroom to accept a 30%+ increase in power AND the ability to protect itself. For GM/Allison to make a transmission rated for 500 HP would be major overkill, AND would likely necessitate beefing up the entire drivetrain. May as well get a medium duty truck then.
We could have a transmission that can't take the stock HP levels, requires a $4k reman/upgrade AND a hydraulic jack to spread the frame rails :eek: to remove...
CUMINNTSTRKN
04-10-2002, 09:45
guys remember the most powerful dura-max was built by gm. so i'm sure $ wasn't a concern. does anyone remeber what tranny that motor had behind it? a 4l80e now i'm not saying it was stock. but when they had the choice for a high hp tranny they did not chose to show case the allison.
guys don't worry the aftermarket will figure out a way to tune up the allison. but until then edge will give you th most possible hp that the allison can take.
jim
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