At what $$$$/gallon do you think the shine will be off for Diesel trucks?

[2dogs]

I'm paying $2.85/gallon here in Washington (oh and BTW - you're next) and I'll bet it is starting to affect the sales of new rigs.....

[Phil B.]

Isn't this ridiculous. We diesel owners must be a bunch of inbred, red-neck, ignorant people because the oil companies certainly have found the market that they can exploit...

I paid $100 to for 40 gals. today.

I am starting to drive my Harley more and more to work. Hey, maybe this isn't such a bad thing :D


Phil B.

[AustralianLad]

I paid $1.10 on monday per litre. We get our crap diesel here full of sulphur straight from Singapore. No wonder everyone over here buys petrol cars and not many diesel vehicles

Cheers Gaz

[jcummins]

Mine hasn't been shining for better than a year now.

[Jim Brzozowski]

I would like to address this issue in detail, but unfortunately I don't have the time right now. I've designed petrochemical and refinery equipment for many years and I know at one time the cost to produce diesel was 1/3 the cost of producing gasoline. Since the low sulfur requirements are in place, they have to spend more money to remove the sulfur. I don't know what the market for bulk sulfur is now, but at one time you could hardly give it away. Now I suspect they have to pay to have someone take it away after its removed from the crude oil.

I think I hear the rumble of big rigs circling the white house shortly, don't you??? Of course its just in time for the planting season for farmers in South Texas. Right now Willie Nelson is trying to work out agreements with certain station chains to market a blend of diesel and biodiesel to get the cost back down. Wish I had more time. I think it will hurt sales considerably. The advantage of the added BTU's in diesel doesn't work out to be an advantage in economy when you have to pay so much more for it.
I am keeping my truck though, got to have that torque.

[TSimpler]

Oh, about $2.00 a gallon should do it. :mad:

I paid $2.25 a gallon today in Albuquerque NM.

Almost wish I had my old gas truck back.

Trent

[gravity420]

2Dogs,

Seems like I only paid 1.59/gal in Washington last winter when driving down from AK. And last summer I don't remember it being much more, maybe 1.69. I think it is getting pretty out of hand.

Too bad BP and everyone pulling oil out of Alaska is shipping it all to China, just like they will after they finally get the oil they want in ANWR. They claim it is for lessenig dependence on foreign oil but what they don't tell anyone is that the oil leases are all sold to overseas investors and don't belong to the US anyways.

Give it a few years and everyone will be riding scooters and bicycles like everywhere else in the world.

Really sucks for Americans because this is a big country and public transpo like trains and such are not very effective here. Everyone needs to drive at least a fair amount. I love fishing up in Alaska and I have a nice jet boat. But sadly, the time may be soon that I sell it and cannot afford to make the trip anymore- since we don't live there year round anymore. Pretty depressing thought.

[bluenote]

Obviously there is a price, at some level, for all of us. Even though diesel has stayed a few cents more per gallon than gasoline in my area for several months now, it's not a huge difference yet. I average about 1

[Runaway]

My truck hasn't had more than 2000 mile put on it this winter. I even go to Menards/Home Depot and bring stuff home in the Intrepid now. Hopefully fuel comes down to gasoline levels by the time towing season starts for me (about a month). Building that home in Wyoming will happen sooner than I wanted it to with the price of fuel. Cost a small fortune to pull rig out there and back now, even getting respectable fuel mileage! :rolleyes: Shine, :( that truck has go a pretty dull glow to it right now!

[drthv8r]

I don't think it's the flow of crude that's jacking the prices up. OPEC could open the spigots up wide open and it still won't help in the pricing. The bottle neck is in the lack of refineries. Want to take a guess when the last refinery was built in this Country? We can all thank the EPA for the pricing fix we're in.

[Nix]

Bio-diesel. Extremely low sulfur, cheap to make from a variety of sources, good for the environment, no refineries needed. We have no excuses. Rudolf Diesel intended for his engine to run on clean renewable plant sourced fuel, not to be the garbage disposal of the petroleum industry. With the agricultural capacity of this country it is positively criminal that bio-diesel is not in widespread use today. I pray every day that the American public will develop the testicular fortitude to use the 1st and 2nd Amendments to do something about it. I don't care how radical I sound. States like California can enact laws to ban cigarette smoking in public places due to public health concerns, so why is petroleum still used? The global use of petroleum is a far greater risk to public health. Ever wonder why cancer rates have jumped so high in the past 40-50 years? If George Washington Carver and Henry Ford saw the folly of the petroleum industry in the 1920s, what the heck excuse do we have?

[D-max Man]

I paid $2.49 a gallon last night. I put 12 gallons of gas in the wife's car and it cost $26.00 but 13 gallons in my car cost $33.00! (Both too high)

The only saving grace is that I get 35-38 MPG! - That would be in my Mercedes 190D 4-cyl. 5-speed (Not too fast but very reliable).

[gravity420]

Nix,

I am with you on the bio-diesel thing. The only problems I have read about are related to a very high water content, and the inability to determine the water content. Home brewed bio-diesel would be very bad for one of these high tech fuel injection diesels. If it were from a refinery in a B20 blend or the much better bio-diesel refineries developed in Canada, then it would actually improve power, lubrication, and fuel mileage, while being safe for our engines.

[TRPSHOOT]

If the recent predictions come true that oil will top $100 a barrel which will translate into at least $4.00 a gallon, then we will see our economy screech to a halt. GOD help all of us then once that domino effect starts. I'm all for free enterprise, but I'll be danged if there truly is free enterprise. All I see is oil companies in collusion with each other to gouge as much money out of us as possible. I think it is time for the government to step in and regulate the American oil industry, of course who am I kidding, these politicians from both parties are some of the biggest stock holders.

Someone told me that the government already regulates the Natural gas industry and that is why we don't see the enormous swings in prices like we do with oil. Anybody know if this is true?
:mad:

[Jimamatic]

Amen TRPSHOOT! While they'er at it maybe they can bring some partial regulation back to the airline industry. There are many cases where you can actually fly at 41000 feet at over 550 mph in a $40,000,000 jet crewed with highly skilled professionals across the country for less money than it cost to take a bus. I don't want to start sounding like a socialist but IMHO free enterprise left copletely unchecked is a wreck waiting to happen.

[Jimamatic]

Darn it!!!! I need to start using my dang spell checker

[Tough Guy]

Bush needs to get his balls in a group and work towards a solution. I own a fully mobile spa/hot tub/pool service business and both trucks are Diesel...its killing my profits and will be forcing me to sell off the trucks for smaller more efficient gas vehicles....and I hate small gas vehicles....

Cheers

[Nix]

As far as biodiesel goes, it definitely does not have the shelf life of petroleum diesel, but what would that matter if it was locally produced in quantities that stay slightly ahead of the demand?
I found a guy by the name of Aleks Kac (sp?) that patented a homebrew method using waste vegetable oil that meets German DIN standards for biodiesel, and the Europeans are WAAAAY more strict about fuel quality than we are in the US. I posted a link in another one of my rants in a fuel price discussion started by Jimamatic.

Now I have to say it-Industrial Hemp is the answer. It will grow from the Arctic circle to the Antarctic without pesticides, and with minimal irrigation and fertilization. And no, it does NOT get you high!! You could smoke your bodyweight in industrial hemp and only have a headache and a sore throat. Hempseed is second only to the sesame seed in percentage of oil by weight. The only reason it is stigmatized into the same category as the wacky tabacky is that very greedy people realized that industrial hemp posed a direct threat to the cotton, paper, and petroleum industries, so it was outlawed along with marijuana. Industrial hemp is a large (and largely ignored) part of our heritage as Americans. If you don't believe me, Google this: Hemp for Victory. Many many things besides hemp seed oil can be made from indutrial hemp. Not only that but it is second only to the California coast kelp beds and blue green algae in terms of photosynthetic efficiency. In so many words that means that vast acres of industrial hemp could tangibly reduce levels of air pollution in a short time. Hemp farming also naturally fertilizes the soil(because the deep-reaching, soil aerating nitrogen rich taproots stay in the soil after harvesting) so it can be grown season after season and actually rebuild the soil instead of raping it dry like cotton. When planted in tight spacing (for fiber) hemp creates a canopy that prevents almost all light from reaching the ground therefore eliminating the need for horrifically carcinogenic herbicides. I apologize for ranting, I just think people should know. I'm not making this stuff up. Please find out for yourself, and please correct me if I'm wrong.

[trbankii]

Have to do some research on the hemp thing, but it does seem practically criminal what we are doing to ourselves and our economy by continuing to buy petroleum from people that would rather see us dead. There has to be a better way to do things. We used to be a nation known for independence and ingenuity. I don

[Jim Brzozowski]

Hey Jimamatic, got news for you. Free Enterprise hasn't existed in this country for 50 years now. If you don't believe it try and start a business doing what you think you would like to do and then find out how many many regulations there are.
The government hasn't been out of our lives that I can remember, it just keeps getting worse, because once its all screwed up, then they deregulate it and leave it up to all of us to fix. If they would have left it alone in the first place we probably all would be a lot better off. You can't legislate morals, you can't legislate technology.

[Jimamatic]

SoTxPollock, I do agree that when the government sticks its nose where it does'nt belong things generally get screwed up. Heck, just look at what they're trying to do and have done to the second amendment. What I meant by regulating had to do more with current bankruptcy and antitrust laws. One U.S. airline has been granted bankruptcy protection 3 times. Meanwhile, Joe healthy airline has to compete with this company that does'nt have to pay their bills. Gee, Maybe if I filed personal bankruptcy, I would'nt have to pay my bills either. Then I could work for free, which BTW would still not allow the aforementioned airline to emerge from bankruptcy.
Ok, end of rant. The point is something has got to change to level the playing field in the industry or it will bring everyone down. Maybe that is what the government wants. Cheers...

[Nix]

Originally posted by Jimamatic:
SoTxPollock, I do agree that when the government sticks its nose where it does'nt belong things generally get screwed up. Heck, just look at what they're trying to do and have done to the second amendment.
The point is something has got to change to level the playing field in the industry or it will bring everyone down. Maybe that is what the government wants. Cheers... The government prefers unarmed peasants. The true liberal wackos are the ones that believe that the Second Amendment is an outdated relic. Those silly founding fathers.....What were they thinking? I think the USA would be a much better place if the government(and the large corporations that control it through "campaign contributions") feared its citizens instead of vice versa.

[Kennedy]

Truck for truck, there's no comparison IMHO. I see diesel hanging in there within $.10 of gasoline. Try to run a 6.0 or 8.1 HD 2500 truck at 19mpg once.

I see good reasoning to go to a 30mpg car over a pickup, but that one is a no brainer regardless of prices...

[Albee]

Diesel prices have risen over 1.00 per gallon since April of 02. When I bought my D max. I just recently bought a little cheap grocery getter car to run back and forth to work in and the truck sits until time to camp or hunt and ride ATV's. The car is getting 32-35 mpg in town and just under 45 mpg on the highway. People have to remember that unleaded may be a few cents cheaper now than diesel, but the vast majority of gassers dont get the economy of the diesels. I will not go back to gassers, I went around the tree.

[D-max Man]

The price of diesel should start to drop (or at least not rise as much as gasoline) as the demand for Fuel oil goes down during the summer months.

Around here, deisel adverages 10 cents a gallon more than gasoline in the winter months but is about 10 cents cheeper in the summer.

[Heavy Duty Neil]

I've got a question for the guys who are saying that they will "sell their truck if fuel goes sky high". Who exactly are you going to sell your truck too? Face it, you are going to be stuck with it because nobody else is going to want it unless you are basically giving it away.

[Lt .59]

In the great state of Californication were paying $2.70. People taking advantage of other people!!!!
It won't be too long and we'll be a country of "have" and "have nots". The middle class is being squeezed out. Sad indeed.

[BlackMaxAlly]

One word Gentlemen...www.greasel.com My Ford is getting the full install this weekend, and soon my new Chevy will be smelling like french fries! It's doable right now, be a doubting thomas, and pay the piper....not I! :D

I have 400 gallons sitting in my back yard, filter it, and heat it down the road.....What's that smell??? Nearly free, Oh yea! tongue.gif

[FJ40INTOW]

I pay $2.19 for Diesel while Regular is $2.09 in Tennessee. I average 19 mpg while all the gas 2500HD's I've talked too say their lucky to get 13 mpg. I'll pay 5% more per gallon to get 46% better mileage anyday! smile.gif

[Nix]

Originally posted by Lt .59:
In the great state of Californication were paying $2.70. People taking advantage of other people!!!!
It won't be too long and we'll be a country of "have" and "have nots". The middle class is being squeezed out. Sad indeed. Let's use the First Amendment and vote these clowns controlling our government out so we don't have to resort to using the Second Amendment in order to find redress for grievances against the corruption,general greed and stupidity present in the bloated,porcine condition our government is currently in.

Why does our government tell us that Medicaid is being cut,and Social Security will be bankrupt in 35 years(IIRC George W. Bush said 2040)because there aren't enough taxes paying for it. The year I graduated high school our government was sending Israel(among other countries) 20 billion dollars a year in aid. Why should we aid their military when American schools are cutting budgets and there are Amercan families starving in the streets? I think that 20 billion dollars could help a lot more people in this country. 1/3 of my gross pay is taxes,but obviously George W. doesn't think thats enough. He wants to give the rich a tax break and help screw average people that really need to file bankruptcy until their destitute and homeless.

It is also wrong that crops that destroy people and the soil(tobacco)are heavily subsidized by the government,along with many other crops,making it so that farmers cannot be profitable independent of the government in many situations. Cigarettes kill more people in the US every year than car accidents,murders,and drug overdoses COMBINED,yet we are not likely to see tobacco go bye-bye because it is far too profitable to the government,as well as the tobacco companies and hospitals that are basically profiting off of the misery and suffering of their fellow man. Cancer is HUGE business. Former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop stated on national television in 1989 that tobacco tars contain radiation from compounds used in the pesticides applied to it that have a radioactive half life of 20 years. It rapes the soil too. But the government that is so concerned with your well being and happiness and quality of life does nothing to prevent tobacco's use. Quite the contrary it encourages it by heavily subsidizing tobacco farms.

Why doesn't the government heavily subsidize oilseed crops instead? Diesel technology is more readily adaptable to be environmentally friendly as well as engineering-friendly,unlike alcohol based gasoline replacements where water is always a concern(it is very,very difficult to keep alcohol anhydrous,and very expensive to get it there)due to the corrosion it promotes. We can have reliable, fast,powerful,fuel efficient vehicles that are good for the environment too. And level the economic playing fields a bit in terms of the growing spread between the "haves" and "have nots",not to mention stopping the flow of money to countries that would just as soon see all Americans dead. What the hell is wrong with people? I know I'm not the only one. I got my ideas from reading and hearing them from other people,who heard them from others,etc. Find out the truth for yourself and spread it around.

If cheap bio-diesel was commonplace, my Diesel truck would shine even more than it already does.

[More Power]

Gas & #2 are now within a cent of each other here in MT, after seeing #2 nearly 50 cents higher than gas a few months ago.

Over the past 18 years, I've seen diesel less expensive than gas for nearly all of that time. Here in MT, I've seen it 20 cents less than the cheapest grade of unleaded. I expect diesel will fall a bit more - even if gas rises a bit.

Profit is a great motivator. Back in the early 80's when gas hit a high of an inflation adjusted $80/barrel, it spurred oil exploration and development world-wide, which ultimately played a part in driving the price back down. Here in MT and in ND, wells were springing up like dandelions in the early 80's, and the oil producing areas boomed with activity. Most of these wells were not profitable at an equivalent $20/barrel, but were at $80, and many of these wells were capped once prices fell. Now, it's the early 80's all over again in eastern MT and ND.

MP

[2dogs]

Oil isn't the answer ACCORDINGLY to the Oil Folks who spread all thie BS to the Newsie types... Remember that everybody is saying the we lack refineries - BUT have we TRIED to BUILD any in the past 10 years - NOOOO! And don't give me the environmental excuse - you can build one if you want and what's wrong with building one in MEXICO IMMEDIATELY?

Utah sits on huge oil reserve

http://www.heraldextra.com/springville/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=4358

South County Newspapers


As a prominent advocate for encouraging unconventional energy sources, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) was asked to testify today in front of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee on his efforts to develop fuel from a vast untapped domestic oil reserve in tar sandsand oil shale -- a large part of which sits in eastern Utah.

"Who would have guessed that in just Colorado and Utah, there is more recoverable oil than in the Middle East?" Hatch said. "We just don't count it among our nation's oil reserves because it is not yet being developed commercially. I find it disturbing that Utah imports oil from Canada tar sands, even though we have a larger tar sands resource within our own boundaries that remains undeveloped."

According to the U.S. Department of Energy, recoverable oil shale in the western United States -- located mainly in Utah, Colorado and Wyoming -- exceeds one trillion barrels and is the richest and most geographically concentrated oil shale and tar sands resource in the world. Hatch noted that Canada recognized the potential of the large tar sands deposits in the province of Alberta and developed a government policy to go promote their development -- increasing its oil reserves by more than a factor of 10.

Hatch is working with Senators Bennett (R-Utah), Allard (R-Colo.), and Salazar (D-Colo.) to develop a bill that would encourage development of commercially viable oil from oil shale and tar sands.

"I cannot sit by while gas prices are going through the roof, and while I hear from constituent after constituent about the disastrous effect gas prices are having on their livelihoods and their businesses," Hatch said. "Why has Canada moved forward in leaps and bounds, while the United States has yet to take even a baby step in this direction? I believe the difference has been the government policies of the respective countries. We need to change that."

[Marty Lau]

I guess I look at things different than some folks. I think that Diesels right now shine brighter than anything else out there, and GM & Ford are being run by numb skulls that CAN NOT see past the next quarters sales. The sales and Ford & GM of big fuel gobbling rigs are down. It's 1970's all over again boys and girls. The fastest growing Auto sales area in Europe is Diesel cars how many US Diesel cars are being made by the big 3 ZERO. What happened to the V-6 DuraMax & Turbo I-4 Diesel.......forgotten. GM would be selling the heck out of C/K 1500's & Tahoe if they had a V-6 DuraMax and got about 25 mpg. And if they had midsize stuf like Colrado's with I-4 TD that got 30+ MPG on Diesel. This is in the relm of posible. The lowered bond rating I think is a direct result of GM & Ford crappy managment decisions. Those who forget History are doomed to repeat it. The Auto makers are repeating the maistakes of the 70's. Dumbsheets.

I had a F-150 I got rid of in 1996 and then it was costing me $50 to fill it up two 19 gal tanks.
I bought the 6.5TD new (hold over) and I soon found out the 26 gallon tank in it took me about 100 miles further and cost much less to fill. Well 9 years later it now cost me $50 to fill the 6.5TD tank and still goes about 100 miles per fill further than the old F-150 and if I had the F-150 it would now cost about $75-80 to fill. So I have spent 9 years and 185,000 miles getting 60% better MPG.
The old 6.5TD still shines nice too me even if the paint is dull. :cool: :D

[ 05-06-2005, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: 16ga SxS ]

[BuffaloGuy]

For those of you who may not know this - It is estimated that 50% of agricultural income is from direct government payments. I live in the rural "projects" of the High Plains and can say that in this area that is a conservative estimate.

That means that, yes, ethanol and biodeisel crops are already being heavily subsidized in the US. So much so that the world sees our heavy subsidation as a threat to third world countries agriculture. As we subsidize (and keep the price down) they can't grow anything profitable except poppies and cocaine.

The WTO has just made a ruling against the heavy subsidies the US pays its' cotton farmers. That ruling can and, I suspect, will be extended to the corn and soybean growers as well in time.

The bottom line is when you burn biodeisel you are burning some of the money that the Feds took from your paycheck.

For those of you who think more government control and meddling is needed I ask you to consider how they have done so far.

I think the commies have proven that central control does not work, especially in a modern complex economy.

You want socialism (soft communism)? Look at Europe. Taxes so high that new business's are squashed befpore they even start and old business can hardly compete on the world stage. Heck they all ride scooters and wear clogs and you can't tell the men from the women!

Yes, the price of fuel is high but so long as the govenrment stays out of the way there is a huge profit potential for someone to come up with a new idea.

The minute the government threatens to squash that profit potential the guy (or company) in his garage will be SOL.

I say let 'er run its course and let someone with a new idea become a billionaire. It's still a whole lot cheaper than having the Feds "help us".

All we need from the Feds is for them to keep the playing field level and stay out of the way.

Oh by the way, the answer to the question posed earlier - "How long has it been since we have build a new refinery in the US?" Answer - Since the 1970's.

This is courtesy of our government regulations. So how do they do for us?

Ken

[JD Diesel]

Here in So. Cal diesel and reg unleaded are the same price 2.49 gal. will always like my diesel better. and have paid upto .25 a gal more for diesel. Fuel prices are not a real concern to me. If I am going to go thats not going to stop me. John :D tongue.gif :cool:

[Nix]

In his comments regarding energy, George W. said "We need to use technology." He was referring to oil and nukes. Yay. Let's use technology to make the earth even more polluted than it already is. Cancer is good for you. It makes you feel so swell. Chemotherapy and radiation treatment resorts. Don't have cancer? We'll give it to you. Warm gasoline baths. Diesel facial peels. Benzene and hexane vapor saunas. That's how I'm going to become a billionaire. Either that or start a Chernobyl Health Retreat featuring technologically advanced nuclear waste anti-aging treatments and uranium colonics for those who think that intestines are over-rated, because nuclear energy is "smart" energy.

Hey what about coal? The US has like a 300 year supply of coal just sitting there doing nothing! Acid rain is good for life! Lets make Lake Erie the way it used to be so we can all go swimming!

Heck,people don't seem to think that breathing car exhaust is bad, even though best case scenario 10% of the fuel put into an engine is not combusted, but it sure is atomized making it that much easier for KNOWN CARCINOGENS to enter into your body. Multiply that by the millions of cars on this planet and you have unavoidable pollution no matter where you go on earth. I have the choice not to smoke cigarettes. I have no choice concerning not breathing in continuous doses of petroleum products. As long as DuPont makes my life better through chemistry and Lilly and all the rest keep making Prozac and doctors keep giving it to 5 year olds, who cares?

But there I go again, just another one of those wacky liberals talkin outta his behind again. Actually I'm a conservative Christian who just happens to think that the earth is a gift from God,and that it should be treated as such, especially considering all of the RENEWABLE(what a concept) resources on it. Jew, Catholic, Muslim, Hindu, Shintoist, Christian, atheist, agnostic, Methodist, vegan, clown, black, white, latino whatever you choose to label yourself you are still human(theoretically speaking). Cancer kills humans. Petroleum products cause cancer, especially the more volatile fractions used for fuel.This is a cold, hard fact . There is no argument to the opposite except for those who take pride in their stupidity, which there certainly is no shortage of in this world.

How about developing technology to harness the incalculably immense eletromagnetic energy present in the earth itself? No, that would make energy free(the cost of energy is estimated around 80% of your cost of living)and make a lot of rich and powerful people very unhappy. Money and power are the keys to happiness in life after all :rolleyes: