Burn rate on Pred, Hyper & EZ

[Burner]

I'm trying to find out a correlation between fuel mileage, horsepower and torque in relation to EGT's of the Duramax. I know that each has it's own program and that they have different TQ and HP curves. However, I would like to know how much heat is produced at each level as well as fuel mileage. If you happen have some data, please share. smile.gif


Thanks, Burner-----> :D

[Burner]

I take it that those with the "new" predator and Hypertech don't have an EGT guage?

Burner-----> :D

[schnier]

Yes, I have an Issapro EGT probe. I will be very honest it is hard to nail down scientific data when you are going 90 mph and trying to watch the probe, and drive. I have seen 1300 degrees on 100Hp setting for the Predator. I mainly run the 40HP Tow mode and can not get this over 1250 degrees solo to 90 mph. The stock truck would hit 1200 degrees on my probe solo to 90 mph. I just checked my mpg and they are in line with the stock truck of 17 mpg. This is with the tire size adjustment included. I know a lot of other boxes are out there with hotter settings so lets see some of those reports. I have run other boxes in the past, but did not have the EGT probe installed at that time. My probe is drilled and tapped into the exhaust manifold like the early guys did it.

[Burner]

Schnier, Looks like folks don't care about burning up their motors. I think that most just care about the speed and fuel milage. It is as if they know that the warranty will cover them if it blows before the 100K mark. Not to be worried about a 6,000 dollar motor but a 600 or 400 dollar programmer. I find this odd? :rolleyes:


Burner-------> :D

[schnier]

No, I think it is like fuel mileage. Ask someone what they get and they will always tell you the best they ever got of 19-20. But in reality they usually get 16-17. A little touchy subject. Who is going to chime in and say they have seen 1400 degrees. I have seen 1500 degrees in a D***e and it is still running fine for a 1997.

[a64pilot]

I think that you will find a direct correlation between temps and real horsepower regardless of who makes the box or programmer. It's going to take more fuel to make more power and more fuel = higher temps. IMHO there is not much power that can be gained from manipulating timing in the Dmax. Someone posted eariler the power difference of a Hot juice with and without timing and I think it was about 10% or so.
BTW I can hit 1200 pulling hard stock and I have my TST adjusted to 1300 and I can hit it pretty easily. I know you were asking about programmers, I included data on TST and stock in an effort to help.

[CPMac632]

I haven't had either programmer but I have seen huge differences in egt with different combinations. If the signals aren't changed properly then you can get egt without power. I have seen a system that made 340rwph and had extremely high egt and a few changes to the timing and such sent the power to 450+rwhp and lowered the egt at least 200 degrees.

[Kennedy]

I've seen the extreme of 1781

[a64pilot]

CPMac632,
I think that I need to clarify myself. Too much timing is very destructive to any kind of engine. It can drive cylinder pressures and temps through the roof with very little if any gains. It manifests itself in a diesel I believe with a rattle and in excessive cases white smoke. I am also of the opinion that timing is the greatest danger of "stacking" boxes or tunes.
So my statement of a corellation is only true if timing is properly managed and maybe some people are releasing products where timing is not properly managed. I hope not because as you state it is easy to determine on a dyno and releasing a product with too much timing in it would be very negligent and possibly destructive.
Also any gains in mileage of these performance boxes or programmers would I believe come from an increase in timing.
I will go on record by as saying that only a foolish person would add anything that increases fuel or timing on their truck and not monitor EGT's. Even if it is only a little fuel or timing, a person dosen't know where his EGT is if he dosen't monitor it.

[Hound]

JK,

Since you sell the Predator, would you care to give your opinion on how good this product is? It appears very interesting to me because of some of the added features. I'm guessing that the Juice delivers more HP and torque but the dual function of the Predator is quite apealing to me.

[Burner]

64,

Thanks for the input ;) I did not inquire about your system because it is "so" adjustable. However, if you had a dyno and could imitate the 85 or 100 HP numbers of the Predator or Hypermax...that would give a really good comparison.
I have read about folks with the JUICE that love it and do not worry about the EGTs because it always stays cool. I have also read about the other kinds of boxes. These "others" seem to have close to the JUICE HP but not near the Torque. The really weird part is that the other boxes, as near as I can tell, have hotter exhaust gas temperatures. How could one box have so much power without killing the motor with heat? More fuel = more heat, right? :confused: I wish there was a formula that corresponded to heat, power and fuel mileage, that would be to easy eh?
64, What would your EGT's be if you had 0 HP and 10 on TQ and then reverse that?
Does a pressure box make heat? What if it's mixed with timing? What about timing only?

John Kennedy...........calling John Kennedy.........Mr. Kennedy please report to The Diesel Page, dummy in need of assistance. tongue.gif

Burner-----> :D

[heartbeatcanada]

I can tell you that i can run the predator 100hp up to 1450, no load, but up a modest incline wot. I do have the 4"exhaust and afe air box and pyro installed in the manifold. I have never seen temps that high with the hot juice. I have currently been running the 100hp pred. and the lowest juice setting(60hp if i remember 4.61hot correct me if i'm wrong)together. With the two stacked the most i can see is 1350egt and with more power than just one of them by far. :rolleyes:

It seems to me that the edge has some kind of programming that seems to keep the egts at resonable temps and when stacked over rides or picks up where the predator lacks. With the 2 combined it seems to me that the engine runs smoother and shifts better than stock and has more power than the 2 programs i have tried including 125juice or 115 predator.

As far as mileage i haven't been tallying the latest tanks as i have been a little hard on the gas pedal :eek: I wasn't one to get good mileage to begin with, especially with my heavy boots. Waiting to go to the dyno and see what kind of #s i can get stacked :D

Hey JK hows the tranny mod going, had any rainy days to install the ats beast yet? Curiousity is killin me, as its my next purcha$e.

[a64pilot]

Burner,
Yes a pressure box will raise EGT's. It adds more fuel so it raises EGT's. More fuel, (if timing is the same) will equal higher EGT's. Timing is critical to temps. It may be possible to gain power without raising temps by increasing injector pulse width and reducing timing. To do so would reduce efficiency though.
As I understand it without changing parts there are three ways to increase power in this engine.
1. Increase fuel pressure, You will inject more fuel with the injector pulse width being the same due to higher pressures.
2. Lengthen the injector pulse width. Longer open time will of course result in more fuel injected.
3. Vary the timing. Increasing the timing may result in higher power as well as increased efficiency.
Sounds simple Huh? Remember pilot inj.? How do you manage it? By increasing inj. pulse length you will probably have to increase timing as well or you may be in effect be reducing timing by only lengthing the pulse width. How about boost? Shouldn't you tie fuel delivery rate to boost pressure as well as pedal position and RPM?
As far as comparing the TST's temps at max tq enhancement and max power enhancement, I don't know if it would be meaningful. As I understand it tq enhancement bumps up the fuel delivery rate between 1300 and 2000 rpm. Probably where you really want more power for towing and probably where the power train can least stand it.
Power enhancement increases the fuel delivery rate from 2000 RPM until redline. probably where you want it for hot-rodding and the driveline can maybe stand more power at higher RPM's. Try stalling the tq. converter on a hard launch, by using the brake, and see how long it takes the engine to get above 2000 RPM and stay there through subsuqent shifts.
I would try your suggestion for you, but I can't. My Daughter has my truck this week, She's moving, So I am driving my Wife's car and she is driving My Daughters. I mean why make thing simple when you can unecessarily complicate them?
Any way if the TST works the way I think it does you would see artificially low EGT's in an empty truck with just tq. turned up as you would spend very little time in the 1300-2000 RPM range. OH yeah IMHO if you increase fuel you should increase the amount of air as well, Not to maintain an air to fuel ratio, it is a Diesel you know, but for complete combustion and as an aid in cooling. As in everthing the amount you can turn up the boost without changing parts may or may not be a whole lot though.
Sorry for the long post. Hope it helps.

[Kennedy]

I haven't tried the two stacked yet, but can say that the 0HP and Juice would definitely be safe. The 100HP Predator tune is definitely hotter (EGT) than the Juice 90HP. I will not have the 1.04 programmers in for a day or so yet, and I've only had the 100HP file to try.

I lost my pyro this weekend (likely the thin probe) so I have to check it out.

The trans thing is OK, but I have to go back into the pan and remove a spring. This step (or part of it) was left out of the destructions, and I am told that this affects the shifts. I also should have a new program coming for the controller. The 3-2 and 2-1 downshifts are particularly harsh when in the normal mode on the transmission.