Which synthetic is the very best?

[Jimamatic]

I know this has been hashed over many times, but I'm thinking of finally making the switch to synthetic. I've been using Rotella T 15w-40 and have narrowed it down to either Rotella T 5w-40 or Mobil 1 5w-40. Price is not a factor. I want the best and I'm willing to pay for it. I do know that mobil is a group 4 vs Shells group 3 base stock, but does this make Mobil all that superier? I know the additive packages make the oil more than just the base stock. What are your thoughts?

Jim

[cme4lyt]

Amsoil...no question...simply the best your truck can have...

[KenZ]

Hi Jim,

I've always used amsoil for about the past 30 years in all my vehicles. However, I wasn't pleased with some of my oil test results on my truck. I switched around a little and tried a couple of the amsoil diesel oils and the Shell Rot. 5w40 Synthetic. I consistently got better test results--lower comtaminates with the Shell than the Amsoil. Can't tell you why, but it just seems the truck likes the Shell better.

Ken

[mcmonroe]

Mobil Delvac 1

[Driveshaft]

DITTO, MARK MONROE.

[JD Diesel]

Amsoil have been running it for twenty years. :D And have seen it stand up to things the other oils would just cry if they had to go there :( . And not just because I sell it. That's my humble opinon. JD :D :D

[Tough Guy]

If price is no object then get Mobil Delvac 1...

If you want the best for the money then get the Rotella 5w-40. I use it both my Diesel trucks and really like it.

Chris

[Jimamatic]

Thanks for the replies. Well, I thought price was no object until I priced a case (4 gal) of Mobile Delvac 5w-40. $105.00 holy cr#p!!! I still have not decided but Rotella T is looking alot better, considering quality vs price. Thanks for your opinions....

Jim

[JD Diesel]

4 gal amsoil is 90.25 add a dual remote bypass filter. and do oil anialise every 10,000 miles they will even tell you when you need to change the filters. JD :D

[jbplock]

Also consider 5w40 Mobil-1 Truck and SUV - same as Delvac-1.... $3.74 per qt at my local Wal-Mart.

(M1 T&SUV is API certified for CI-4, D1 is CI-4+)

See Engine Oil (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=008529) for more info..

smile.gif

[LanduytG]

Best buy on a top quality group 4 oil is the Amsoil AME 15W-40 in the 5 gallon case. Thats 2 10 quart jugs then add the new EAO52 oil filter and you have the best. Oil is $80 ($4 a quart) for the case and the filters are $13. So you get 2 oil changes for $106. You can run at least 15K without even breathing hard. IMHO anything over that and you need oil analysis.

Greg

[Jim Brzozowski]

One thing to consider is the warranty on the engine. If GM ever finds out from your records that you ran past the oil change intervals they recommend they could deny you warranty work on the engine for the first 100k. Just a thought, of course on the other side of the coin, if you use the best oil your chances of having a problem with the engine is much less. I suggest you use the best you can afford based on the need to perform under the conditions you expect it to. Only you know what you're gonna put your engine through.

[Black95TD]

What do you guys think about using Shell 5W-40 synthetic for one change Dec thru Feb. or so for easier starting , better cold lubrication, better milage etc and using Shell 15W-40 the rest of the year. It can get down to near 0 frequently here in northern Connecticut during Jan. The popular belief is that once you switch you should continue on forever. I like to change the oil and filter every 5K on my new LLY. Used to do 3K with the old 95 but the new motor doesn't seem to make the oil so black plus there is 10 qts. All the synthetics say they are fully compatible.

Anyone had good luck with this approach?

[Carbon D/A]

The Mobile truck and suv synthic at wally world comes in a 5 quart container for about $21.00. i use this oil in everthing, lawn tractor, truck,4 stroke dirt bike, generators... I dont know why but i BELIEVE, Its got to be good for this price ?

[JD Diesel]

Have had a dealer try not to take care of a warrent issue. :eek: slapped down my oil analise issue was no longer a problem. JD :D

[FrankA]

my local lube and oil change place just got the
5w40 Mobil-1 for the diesel in but he said mobil aslo mskes an oil filter for the Duramax. Anyone here anything about a mobil oil filter and should I use it?
thanks
frank

[Jim Brzozowski]

JD DIESEL, that sir is good information everyone needs to know and your right. They can't argue with the oil analysis.

As far as changing weights for winter to summer. I really doubt it makes a difference. I run the 5W-40 year round. One thing thats not too well known it that the Champ turbo cars that used to run at Indy before the IRL took over, they ran 0W-30 in those engines. I haven't talked to any of the car owners in IRL so I don't personally know what they run now, but they aren't turbo engines.
My opinion is that the faster the oil flows through the system when you first hit the starter the better it is for the engine i.e. I use the 5W-xx oil in everything I own including lawn mowers. I've never worn out an engine. Something else always happens to make me want to get a new one, but never because the engine was too worn out. Lubricants today are so, so much better than they were a few years ago. Compliments to everyone involved in Petroleum research and of course it doesn't hurt that NASCAR has adopted Mobil 1. I have no doubts that Amsoil is at the top of the list too. I use Shell for the value and My wife has worked for Shell for years as well as some of my old racing buddies who worked in the oil analysis testing labs at Shell, so I know what their quality is. It's good enough for my truck for the price. Red Line has always been a highly acclaimed oil and Royal Purple has really come on strong over the past few years. You've got to make your own decision. I assure you if it meets the specifications required for your engine and its any of the brands I've mentioned you can't go wrong.

[jbplock]

Originally posted by FrankA:
Anyone here anything about a mobil oil filter and should I use it?
Frank,

The Mobil-1 filter is an excellent choice.. For more info see Mobil-1 Filter for the Duramax, M1-303 (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=008010)

smile.gif

[LanduytG]

The M1 and the old Amsoil SDF where about the same. Now we have the new Amsoil EaO filters that are 15 micron at 98.7% for only $13, if ran with Amsoil oil its 25K miles or once a year. Of course I am sure that Delvac would run that as well.

Greg

[Jomar]

SoTexPollock,
Are you related to any of the Pollocks from Hargill ??

[ynot]

I'll stay out of the brand thing, but if you ask any reputable engine builder that does not sell oil as part of there bus. (hence no bias), they will all recommend a blend as apposed to straight syn. Samples and stuff are great on paper, but look at the actual parts in a vast array of different applications and intervals to get a better pic of things. I've been done with straight syn. for years now with much better results...T

[LanduytG]

I'll stay out of the brand thing, but if you ask any reputable engine builder that does not sell oil as part of there bus. (hence no bias), they will all recommend a blend as apposed to straight syn. Samples and stuff are great on paper, but look at the actual parts in a vast array of different applications and intervals to get a better pic of things. I've been done with straight syn. for years now with much better results...T
And for everyone you find that says that I can find you one that will say use synthetic. Way do you think some of the high cars come with a factory fill of synthetic.

greg

[Jim Brzozowski]

Jomar, no I'm not. South Texas Pollock is my ole CB handle, not my name.

Greg brings up a good point. Why do the high end cars come with synthetic on the factory fill?

If you've ever cooked the oil (be careful) and see whats left at the end or seen pictures of someone who did it pretty much tells the story. The old base crude winds up a black gooey mess, not so the synthetic. If you think about the oil being sprayed onto the underside of the pistons on our engines to cool down the pistons and with some guys running from 1400 to 1700 degrees exhaust temps on short spurts of major dyno runs, you can just imagine what happens when that oil hits the piston thats starting to approach melt down temperature. I would think the ones using conventional oils whould have a build up of carbon under there which will just stay hot and become an insulating layer to keep the oil cooling from doing its job and eventually....a hole right in the center of the piston.
For that reason alone I will always use a synthetic if the pistons are oil cooled like the duramax is.

[madmatt]

I know I don't have a dog in this fight but FYI...Cat and Detroit both come factory filled W/ Mobil Delvac.....NON-synthetic.

[TJ]

At 12 gallons of oil capacity on a 3406E Caterpillar and a similar capacity on an N14 or Series 60, it might get a little pricey to fill each and every engine with synthetic. ;)

[DmaxMaverick]

Originally posted by madmatt:
I know I don't have a dog in this fight but FYI...Cat and Detroit both come factory filled W/ Mobil Delvac.....NON-synthetic. We can't use heavy duty application engines for this argument. Those biguns' don't see the temps, RPM's, and bearing loads we put onto these smaller engines. I will say, though, it wasn't unusual to see the old Cummins small cam 350's go down at around 350K with Delo 400, while the same engines went to 500K and beyond with Amsoil. The early big cams were about the same, but were new then. Saw it for myself with a base of about 50 trucks. That was back in the 70s/80s, so it may not even apply these days. Now, it is unusual for an engine (HD) to need any major work with less than 500K on them.

[LanduytG]

I know I don't have a dog in this fight but FYI...Cat and Detroit both come factory filled W/ Mobil Delvac.....NON-synthetic. They might not come from the factory filled with synthetic but I have plenty of class 8 customers using it. With fuel at $2.50 a gallon if a truck can gain just .5 mpg thats a big saving, and yes that is the norm and I have a few that switched everything over and gain .9 mpg. Either way that gain pasys for the oil plus better protection.


Greg

[madmatt]

I wasn't participating in any argument, I won't.
Just saw this....


Way do you think some of the high cars come with a factory fill of synthetic. and decided to add to it. Yes I know a lot of class 8 who run it w/o problem as well as well as those who run non-syn w/o problems. Outside contamination is the leading cause of heavy-duty diesel engine parts failure and would exsist in either types of oil if they were stored or handled in the same manner or care was not taken to prevent contamination during repairs. Also the E model Cat truck engines only hold 40qts(10gal) ;)

[ 11-24-2005, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: madmatt ]

[Jimamatic]

Well, I finally made an executive decision. I went to Wallmart yesterday and bought tree jugs of Rotella T 5w-40 synthetic. Best for the money I figure. Can't wait for my next oil change to see how my truck likes it. I still have about 1500 miles to go on the old oil. I appreciate all the opinions out there...

Jim-

[Driveshaft]

I think we can use the big trucks, too. We have several over 700,000 miles with no major problems and they have used Delvac non-syn for ever oil change. Some are just now starting to use a gallon of oil every 7500 to 10,000 miles when we change them. I do, however, think we will start having problems soon out of these engines. My company has always used Mobil Delvac non-syn, we do use synthetic gear oil to preserve the warranty that comes with the rearends and tranny.

[mcmonroe]

It is an undeniable fact that a top quality synthetic oil such as Delvac 1 is superior in just about every way to standard oil. It's not marketing hype with regards to a product like Devlac 1 or a Redline based product.

Will it make a difference in your truck? Is it worth it? Do you need it?

All of those qustions are really based upon the individual and their truck. If you trade your trucks every 2-3 years then it probably a waste of money for you.

I keep my trucks a long time and put a lot of miles on them. Considering that I am maintaining a $40-50,000 truck I dont see the extra money for synthetic oil to be a problem. In fact considering what it will cost to rebuild a Duramax it down right cheap if it extends the engine for a few 10,000's of miles.

Random thoughts..

Mark

[Jim Brzozowski]

Mark, I agree with everything you say. Deisel Crat would you or your expert try and explain why you think blow by is the fault of synthetic oil? I guess you could postulate that using conventional oil would help carbon build up in the ring lands and help the rings expand toward the cylinder makeing it seal better.

[LanduytG]

I'm with you Madmatt. I got no dog in this fight either but me thinks synthetic is a waste of money especially for a Diesel. I've seen the actual pistons from tests on synthetics and seen that most synthetic formulas cause other issues that people are not paying attention too. I.e. Ring blowby for one.

You have to be about the only one that thinks this way. This is how myths get started. The facts are synthetics keep things cleaner this redusing carbon build up and thus redusing blow by. I have had many customers that made the switch and reduced oil consumption a lot or it quit using oil all together. I have seen first hand a 6.5TD that had 160K on it when it blew, it had been using synthetic for at least the last 100K miles of its life. The internals were clean with no carbon deposits and all rings were intact and free. Your arguement just will not hold up.

Greg

[DmaxMaverick]

To have an opinion is just absurd! How dare you! smile.gif

Not all opinions are pungent. Around here, the majority of the good advice isn't more than an opinion, informed or not.

The validity of an opinion only depends on which camp you are in. A lot of money is made on snake oil. The definition of snake oil relies on an opinion, as well.

IMO, if synthetic lubes were the same price as mineral oils, the dino-only companies would be out of business quick. Many tech issues can, and will, be rationalized by $$.

Merry Christmas to all. (I guess that too is an opinion, anymore)

[ANXIOUS-SUBMAN]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diesel Crat:
[QB] That's pretty close. It's more like extended use of synthetics causes cylinder glazing, which allows the blow by. The blow by will show up just below the piston ring lands once the cylinders become glazed.

That sounds like pretty devastating news to the syn world. Do you have any documented studies that you could point to on the internet somewhere?

[JD Diesel]

And that is why all those dino oil companys are also spending millions on research to develop a syn oil :eek: . You tell me they dont think it's worth the investment. Guess the dino oil theory falls on its face. :D . JD So there you have it my 12 cents worth. tongue.gif

[oyazi]

I recall a respected member here who also operates a lube lab having commented that Mobil Delvac 1300S as being one of the finest dino oil around. I started using it as its avail @ wallys and affordable. Additionally, its certified CI-4 PLUS which the Mobil Truck/Suv isn't. I've heard that the old Delvac Mobil 1 that was replaced by Truck/Suv was also certified as CI-4 PLUS ~ I noticed that the 2 wally stores in our area are out of stock ~ something going on?