Found High Flow Thermostats at Checker Auto

[MTTwister]

They were in a yellow "Prestone" box - but on the side it had RobertShaw ( in small script) ! I picked up a 330-180 - @ $12.

They had 160, 180, 190 and 195

[john8662]

Thanks for the hint!

Autozone used to sell them, and discontinued them, I am glad that they are finally available again but from a different vendor. Too bad all the Checker Auto stores here got bought out by O'Reilly's.

-note corrected, I had mentioned Autozone before as the vendor now stocking packaged RS stats, not paying attention that it was Checker... DuH!

[ 02-23-2005, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: john8662 ]

[Barry Nave]

I could never figure out the two diff. temp. stats. Unless only having one stat open allows more coolent to flow around in the block till the 195 is called upon.
So we have a duel set up though the 195 will, in mot cases not be used unless one tows alot.
I,ve read the 195 starts to open yet takes over 200* to fully open.
Wtih my twin 180 I can still run 210 towing in hot temps. though I,m pushing a lot of power also.
I remember one camping trip with just a Banks kit that I could not even go over 60 no mater how hard I pushed,the temps would just go wild.
After all the Mods I run cooler,more power and even better fuel milege

[Barry Nave]

I use to have RS that came with JK kit but one stat stuck open ( are RS fail safe?) Now that all Auto Zone have are fail safe stat. Not sure what brand they are though. Seems to be doing ok.
See no difference what Auto Zone has now then when I had the RS.

[MTTwister]

Bnave95 - back on Jan 04 you stated

posted 01-27-2004 03:26
I like one of each "

http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005702


Do you still run one of each?

Since the idea is to get more water through the block anyway, I was thinking that the 180, which is fully open about 195 would allow some additional cooling prior to the 195's kicking in.

Last week, just going up the hill( not that steep) by the Berkley pit, ( 1/4 mile) my temps would climb above 195

[Kennedy]

Almost always in stock here at 180

[Barry Nave]

Not no more. I tried it for some thought that was the way to go untill towing one hot summer day,I did not like the temps getting into the 210-220 range. Went back to twin 180 and may reach 210 once in awhile pulling up grade.
Hard pulls I'll stay around 190- 200.
After awhile the two different Deg. Stats made no sence. You now have the cooling up grade, yet using only one stat most of the time. Buy the time the 195 opens your already hot and the temps now has the fan kicking in trying to cool the eng. down and it does so the 195 starts closing :rolleyes:
Sence the duel 180 fan does'nt kick in and temps stay in check. ;)

[Marty Lau]

HMMMMMM 160's maybe a fellow ought to consider putting 160's in the summer when he clean the junk out from the raditor area and then switch back to 195 in winter. Just a thought.

[Barry Nave]

Is ther any theory trying to run too cool?
Some seem to get better fuel milelige when running around 195-200+*
My AC works better running cooler.
I, myself don't like seeing temps around 200+.
We are always finding ways to keep our Eng. and drive trans Comp. cool.
I run with a full winter cover and even when temps get close to 40* I still run at the 180* stats Temps though at that time I also have to flaps that can be opened.

[arrowheadracing]

I am not going to write a book on it and since I get hammered for my opinions. I ll just say, stat temp ratings 90% of the time should be higher rather then lower. Installing a lower temp stat usually wont close enough or consistant enough to slow the coolant down enough to cool faster. If anyone is interested in more info I would be happy to discuss it off the board in a more private mannerful way.

Thanks
Todd

[rjschoolcraft]

Originally posted by arrowheadracing:
I am not going to write a book on it and since I get hammered for my opinions. I ll just say, stat temp ratings 90% of the time should be higher rather then lower. Installing a lower temp stat usually wont close enough or consistant enough to slow the coolant down enough to cool faster. If anyone is interested in more info I would be happy to discuss it off the board in a more private mannerful way.

Thanks
Todd Nobody hammers you for your opinions. Your opinions are welcome. The only instance I can think of that would cause you to say this, is one where you spoke of a vendor with "no one else" verbage. I and others disagreed with the "no one else" part, but said nothing to disparage your high opinion of the vendor you mentioned. You then commented about cliques, which I thought was inappropriate and off base. I didn't reply to that then, but think you've jumped to a conclusion that isn't merited.

I'm sorry if you got your feathers ruffled and I hope that you don't clam up.

Your comments on running higher temp stats are generally true for performance and fuel economy. However, in my opinion, the 6.5 is an animal by itself in this situation. Do a search here on thermostats and you will find many hours of interesting reading. Also, be sure to read the article 6.5 TD Cooling Solutions That Work (http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/features/65cooltipsc.htm) in the members area. My experience towing heavy (especially west of the Mississippi River) has confirmed what More Power wrote in that article about t-stats. Many on this board will disagree with that, but you make up your own mind.

[Billman]

I'm not gonna 'Hammer' you either Todd.

I'm going to actually agree with you on this one.

I'm still looking for Hi-Flow 205's...

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by Billman:
I'm not gonna 'Hammer' you either Todd.

I'm going to actually agree with you on this one.

I'm still looking for Hi-Flow 205's... 200

[MTTwister]

Billman - Check Checker Auto - they had a full range of them on the rack here, including I believe 205's. NAPA has 200

[Barry Nave]

So JK
Now higher Tems are better. Years ago with the cooling mods it was all about the 180's*
Times do change as the years past and we test and learn.

[rjschoolcraft]

Originally posted by Bnave95:
So JK
Now higher Tems are better. Years ago with the cooling mods it was all about the 180's*
Times do change as the years past and we test and learn. Bnave,

I think the higher temp stats are a mistake. If you do a search on the subject, you'll see my logic.

[Billman]

In all fairness to the rest of the board RJ, Nobody tows like you do.

Be it good or bad...

[hug]

Isn't thermostat flow affected to how much water can flow through the water jacket leaving the head!?

[dieseldummy]

So if the logic of a lower degree thermostat, or no thermostat doesn't "slow" the water down enough to absorb heat, then why does everyone advocate the HO water pump?

[Barry Nave]

RJ
I'll stay wtih the 180'S, Towing is where this set up show's it's self.
The higher flowing pump,as JB#1 wrote there is more flow going through and in around the block,heads. Got to protech that #8. Flow to Rad get's 9% more. I'm sure by now every one has read that article.

[damork]

The Duramax runs a bit cooler than the 6.5's - would running the Duramax 10-15

[Billman]

damork

195's for Fuel economy, Thermal Efficiency, & Proper Expansion.

Now Intercool it for Longer Injector Pump life...

[G. Gearloose]

Originally posted by dieseldummy:
then why does everyone advocate the HO water pump? I summize, since the #8 cyllinder tends to drag and frag first, that increasing flow within the block would help even the temps cylinder-cyllinder.

[dieseldummy]

Maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong, but if you increas flow you are increasing the speed at which the water passes by the block castings which is also what happens when you take out the thermostat. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if I'm not then those that say taking out the thermostat is a bad idea should say the same about the HO water pump... :confused:

[rjschoolcraft]

With the thermostat in place, the temperature of the engine is regulated at a near optimum value. Without the thermostat, the engine may never reach operating temperature.

Higher flow increases the convective heat transfer coefficient increases, which improves heat removal.

[dieseldummy]

I see, I knew someone could explain that for me.

[kowsoc]

Not only that but these engines use a "blocking" type of thermostat (the spring loaded disc is the blocker) which when opened fully blocks coolant from recirculating through the block and forces all the flow to go through the radiator, so removing the stat will allow hot coolant to recirculate through the block making conditions worse.

I'm also looking for a warmer than 195 stat without any luck. My reason is improved fuel economy which is basically running a unloaded truck.....towing may benefit by cooler stats that are fully opened at a cooler temp.

And Todd, please post your info.....we're working together on this page to try and find answers, some through experience, some knowledge, but I think everyone can benefit from everything posted here somewhat. I know I do!! ;)

[arrowheadracing]

Here is one example from my heavy street strip car. 11.5 to 1 compression, closed chamber heads, Electric water pump drive and new water pump with HO impeller, dual electric fans, Aluminum griffin race radiator. 4 spd and 4.10 gears. Idle was 1400 rpm. Cruise rpm was 3200-3500 roughly about 45 mph. 400 cubes. Would run 10.90s at the time.

With all these mods and a 160 stat, the temps would hit 220-240 degrees within 5-8 minutes of street driving. I tried drilling holes in the stat to increase flow. My theory at that time, was that I didnt have enough flow to get the heat out. I pulled the stat completely and couldnt drive the car at all. It would instantly heat up and soar well towards 300 degrees in minutes of any driving. I tried high flow stats, no luck. I eventually on a midnight oil idea installed a used 196 degree stock stat that was stuck to a oem waterneck. My temps never went above 200-205 ever. Now with that thought I bought a high flow 180, and back to the same problem. Put the 196 back in and the problem was gone. Close to $1000 in mods, and the culprit only cost $3.95 brand new to fix the problem. Go figure.

So here are some of the contributing factors to look at.

Rear gear ratio, what rpm your engine will constantly be at. Since your motors are not driven by an electric water pump drive ( was set to 1200 rpm ) your impeller speed will fluctuate while driving. There by increasing flow at high speeds, can cause problems if you run too low a temp stat as the coolant will flow faster through the radiator and not have enough time to cool.

Fan cfm flow. Obviously the more air it will pull the more heat will be transfered away from the radiator cooling fans. Since in most of your applications , clutch fans and highway speed are were your seeing your high temps, things like electric fans would hinder , not help the situation. Adding the dmax fan would help at lower speeds if your having trouble there as well.

Does anyone make a better impeller ? I would be interested in hearing about it. It wouldnt be difficult to machine one. But I dont have any problems with heat, so I ll leave it to someone else to machine one. I ve done them in the past for some of our race cars and that helps push more fluid. The idea would be to push more flow at a slower speed. Maybe a different size pump pulley ?

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried hardblocking a block ? A half fill is all you could do to really still keep coolant flow in it. May also have a positive effect on bottom end stability.

Anyone try a better radiator? A two row 1 1/4 tube aluminum radiator will cool and flow more then a four row small tube radiator. Not sure whats in the truck as I havent changed the coolant yet to look. That would be an area to look into.

Proper spacing of your fan, you should have roughly half the blade in the shroud. If you are too far out or in, you lose air pressure flow. Distance from blade to corner of the shroud should also be within spec. I would say within a 1/4" or so of gap. Too much and you lose flow.

The whole idea of cooling is to stay a consistant speed. The electric water pump drive is the best for that. But impracticle in these applications. The idea of pushing a high flow stat , does no good if it moves to fast. As shown in my example. I had plently of flow, perhaps too much. It just needed to be slowed down to be effective. In stock applications, if you have temp problems, your arent at 100 % efficient in your cooling system. Just bolting on somebodys aftermarket cooling setup will help, but mask the true problem. I am not one to tow heavy on a regular basis. But cooling is cooling. Whether you have a million pounds or empty weight. Your just creating more heat ( because heat = power ) to tow that heavy load. If you have an efficient setup, your temp will never flucuate much either towing or not. Most heat related problems can be cured for relatively small amount of money and some brain power.

I am sure I forgot alot of things to add, but the gist is look over your problem before you start buying the latest and greatest aftermarket solutions.

As a last note, I am looking at a dual stat housing. Can someone tell me real numbers on this item. It just seems to me that your still pushing through the same size diameter rad hose, where is the actual benefit for this item ? Seems like a bottle neck idea. You can get more flow out the stat, but clog it right up by going back to the same size diameter hose outlet.

Todd

[rjschoolcraft]

Be sure to read the article 6.5 TD Cooling Solutions That Work (http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/features/65cooltipsc.htm). This will help to establish the background for this discussion.

[DmaxMaverick]

Arrowheadracing


If you are still using an OEM type water pump, your results are typical. Remove the stat, and high temps. As Ronniejoe stated before, the pumps are a bypass type. Remove the stat, and it will bypass a high percentage of the coolant, all the time. In your case, you should have a positive displacement pump installed, with a thermostat controlled switch for your electric pump.

The belief that water can flow too fast to cool is a myth. Truth is, faster flow will remove heat at a faster rate. With a bypass type pump, cycling water too fast results in a higher percentage of the coolant getting cycled through the block and not reaching the radiator at all.

Here's an example perhaps you can understand. Remove the radiator cap on a radiator that has one on the radiator. With the engine near operating temp, rev the engine to 50-75% of RPM range. The coolant level will drop. Why? More coolant is drawn into the engine until the pump impeller cavitates. Where did the coolant go? Into the block. The level lowered because there is more coolant going into the block than is being returned to the radiator. Let off the throttle and all that coolant returns to the radiator (much of it from the outlet side). If it overflows, that is the indication of coolant that has expanded due to excess heat from too much time in the block. If you are familiar with fluid principals, the law says the amount of coolant should be the same going in and out of the radiator, all else being equal. That "extra" coolant is not coolant, it is water vapor (steam) that usually gets condensed before it reaches the radiator, but the "extra" volume in the block is released as soon as the pressure gets released. High RPM's increases the pressure in the block, which increases the temp at which the coolant will boil. Drop that pressure at the same temp, and the coolant will boil, instantly, which causes the violent rushing of coolant out of the radiator opening.

That "cheap" 196

[Tough Guy]

I feel that 180's are not for everyone. I have them, I've had them installed for approx. 100,000 miles now, for towing they are undoubtedly the way to go. If you drive around town all day empty, put whatever you would like in...My mileage is no different with 180's than when I had the 195's and I calculate every tank by hand and have for years.

I'm sure there will be testimonials from others who have had better fuel economy and no heating problems with the 195's....I will stick with what has worked for me with many miles, towing and hard driving....RS 180's all the way.


Cheers