big head wastegate install??

[Holeshot]

hay all
I know its been a while but in back. I just recieved my big wastegate, and like a kid in a candy store I ran out to the garage to install it. Now here is where the dilemma comes in. I got the clip, and the lower 12 mil bolt out, but dam what kind of special tool to get to the upper bolt? Ive been in some tight places before but I gotta say this one takes the cake!! Once i get it installed ill take some pics and give you all a full report on it.
Thanks for any help
Tony

[Cowboy_120]

i beleive ndamico just finished installing the whole stinger system on his truck not too long ago.
Maybe see if you can get a hold of him and see what he has to say. Please post it if you can, I will be installing mine in 2 weeks time and I would like to know what tools are needed.

Thanks

[DMAXER]

I need help on the stinger system e mail me at KB1RB28@aol thanks

[Holeshot]

cowboy
your gonna need a t55,10,11,12mm,and a pliers.
the install is pretty straight foreward,but very tight to work in.
Now for my question my waste gate didnt come with any instructions. It has a small alum spacer,where does this go?? I presume between the turbo and the upper bolt? and how do you adjust the rod length? Im only getting about 10-15lbs max. any help would be appreciated.

dmaxer
are you looking for help installing your system? If so no prob ill drop ya email.
later all and thanks
Tony

[Holeshot]

dmaxer your e mail addy didnt work

[ndamico]

Hey guys,

here's the deal on the wastegate. the coolant line to the turbo must be removed. its is T55.

as for measurement of the actuator length you do it this way:

1)remove stock actuator.
2)hook the new actuator through the arm protruding out from the wastegate (making sure the wastegate is in the closed position. closed is closer to the front of the truck) and adjust the threaded rod (with nut loose of course) until it sits flush with the back of the turbo, not having any slop.
3) remove the actuator, turn the end of it 7 turns in (tighter/shorter) and then re-connect to wastegate arm.
4) install washer and lock-nut on wastegate arm.
5) now you will notice the actuator won't reach the back of the turbo. take air compressor and pressurize the actuator to 55 lbs. this will make it extend out.
6) while keeping it pressurized, tighten the bolts that hold its mounting bracket to the turbo.
7) once tight, release the air and re-connect to truck.

basically you are putting a certain amount of pre-load on the actuator. banks recommends 7 turns per the documentation and my conversations with their tech support. they used to do 9 turns but found that it didn't want to open. mine happens to give quite a bit of boost (more than they've seen) so i may try resetting my for 5 turns to see what happens.

i'll be hooking up my 8500lb boat today so it will be my first opp. to tow with the full stinger kit. i'll post results later. also a fellow DP member is dropping me off a current Non-Hot juice to try for a week so i'll be able to do some comparisons. more to follow.

if you have any more questions feel free to email me @ nick@wackywack.com.

thanks!

[DMAXER]

They are sending me a new outtmind box and only 20psi of boost I claped the hose to big head and got 26psi but know big power gain KB1RB28@aol.com

[Holeshot]

Yes ndamico you are correct on all your info but when I called banks for my 03 they said 8 turns?? (not trying to start just trying to get proper info) can you adjust for more boost?? say 31/32psi for max possible output? And man are you right on that coolant line!! Its fricken impossible to back out the upper bolt without removing the line. I dont know why bans just dosent tell you to remove it!! But oh well thets the price we pay for power smile.gif

Hay dmaxer Y only 2 lbs over stock??
Ive personally put both my trucks through hell. Towing hot juice level 4 and constant dragracing, and the worst ive expericenced is blown tranz valve bodies and 1 injector (knock on wood). I love my new banks waste gate and cant wait till i get jy j/k exaust. drop me an e mail holeshott@comcast.net

Sorry about my long post guys but now for my impression on the wastegate. DAMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!! now my truck holds a solid 25 lbs of boost through 2-4 and 29lbs in 5th!!! holy schnikes all!! for real it made a huge improvement in midrange power. now I know i wasnt using a g tech but Ive raced myh buddies 2000 cobra, and we would always be neck and neck through 3rd then he would take off on me into 4th. Now with a few hard stoplight runs (to get my truck used to the power) we raced. Man oh man I wish you all could have seen the look on his face when I whooped his butt!! I know I know your all skeptical so we did thi 5 times. ( we have a 1/4mile stripped marked off locally) And every time the exact same results me 1.5 to 2 truck leingths ahead!! so all I can ay is dam the best 180 bucks ive spent since the juice upgrade.
Later
Tony

[ndamico]

Holeshot,

I acutally have directions. they say 7 turns i believe. and the directions i have also say you do need to remove the t55 bolt for turbo cooling to access mounting bolts for OEM wastegate. sorry you didn't get any directions!

you can adjust wastegate for more/less boost. the more preload you put on it (shortening the shaft) makes more boost.

[Cowboy_120]

is the install really that difficult? I mean. do we have to use the pressurized air and all that? I would assume that the wastegate is closed when the truck is off, so when you do the switch, and the new wastegate is closed when you put it on, you wouldnt have to put any preload on it.
For taking off the coolent line, is it a messy job, or will it be empty when the engine is shut off?

Thanks

[Holeshot]

cowboy
no the install isnt really that bad as long as you have some mechanical knowledge (more than just changing oil). If not I would get help or have it done for ya. Yes you do need pressureized air to actuate the new wastegate. Rember its about a quarter inch shorter than the factory one. (more tension more boost) As for removing the coolant line, you have to do it when the truck is cold. If not its like removing your radiator cap while the truck is hot. If you remove the line you might lose about an oz of fluid. (not messy at all) For the difficulty of the install its really not so bad, my truck is lowered so it like i was standing on top of everyting but you guys out there with the 4bys could pose a little more of a challange.
later
Tony

[mackin]

Has anyone asked Banks how they are making their power with their box??

Are they pumping up the fuel ?? Just wondering what'cha all expect to do with the extra boost your generating.....

I'm familiar with the Big Head Wastegate for the Cummins application.... Goes hand and foot with upping the pump output ....

MAC

[Holeshot]

Mac
when I talked to banks(Idont rember who I talked to)they told me the ottomind controlled timing fuel pulse, and fuel rail pressure. Now im not an expert on this but from all ive read, and personal experience, the fuel rail pressure part worries me. From what I understand this is the single most killer for our fuel systems (rember the old van atkin box) I was one of the first to have these for my 01 and it made it sound like a power stroke, and we wont even get into the injector probs i had. But this is all from personal experience. as for what im trying to obtain, its just plain and simple SPEED!!! my truck is used for 5percent work and 95 percent enjoyment. So the more ricers and stangs i can whoop up on the better. Truley I dont know the benefits of the upgrades ive been doing, but the only way I know how to learn is to do. As for the wastegate im now holding a solid 25+ lbs of boost through 2-4th gears, and in the world of drag racing this means some serious power. But ill also be truthful and tell ya that the trans cant hold that much. I can put mine into limp mode at will, about 3rd if you dont take your foot out of it a little forget it. And towing my race trailer I can smoke up 5th. (can you say perfect canidate for trans upgrades)lol
hope this helps some
later
Tony
p.s. man do i need to invest in a g tech
happy easter

[Dave S]

How did the Big Head effect your exhaust temps?

[sdaver]

maybe I missed the boat here............why would the big head waste gate be better than just plugging or blocking the factory line...I see 32 to 34 psi thru third and fourth with hot juice.......performance increase I think yes..others say no....egts definitly 100 degrees or better........have not really followed the stinger kit....maybe I just missed it.........please explain :D dave

[mackin]

sdaver

I'm on the slow boat info too ...... :confused:

I didn't want to initiate the comment but sense you did, I'll join in .....

Your thoughts are my thoughts ...... I think it's Banks way of getting rid of some over stock and making a kit out of it .... tongue.gif

Theres always a box full of these at Jannettys when I visit ,not a big seller,in the Cummingapart market.....

Figuring that with the extended pulse, added fuel rail pressure (assumed) they felt the need for added boost, their way ..... Maybe they don't want to condone vacuum plugs and spring clamps .....Hardy har har .....

I feel that with a good intake system and a wastegate deprived max,will give more then useable,as I found out the other day, I could have used a higher reading gauge...That was scary ..... :eek: Do not repeat, Do not repeat, Do not repeat, I keep telling myself ....


Install, half hour and simple .......

[ 04-22-2003: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[sdaver]

hey mac I noticed your not listing your afe in your sig.....did you sell it?.........no way they work too good......... :D dave

[mackin]

Dave

Nope still running the AFE ..It is finally seasoned too ...... Took a peek under the wrap the other day .....

My sig ,yup needs a bandwidth stealing upgrade ..... :eek:

Left out cost of my Big Head Wastgate imitation mod ,bout a buck ..... :cool:

MAC smile.gif

[Holeshot]

Sorry guys about the slow info as the testing was to much fun smile.gif anyway the egts are slightly lower before wastegate 950 post turbo, after install 900. I dont know if it make a difference or not but the seat of the pants feel is awesome. My buddy with an 01 bakns exst, regular juice,stock intake. me k/n intake, hot juice, banks wastegate, and stock exaust... I smoked him and not like usual I MEAN I SMOKED HIM !! he couldnt belive the mid range difference between the two. Needless to say hell be ordering one tommorrow.

Lets see now all I need is a j/k exaust and some propane and some trans mods and some and some and some is the madness ever gonna end.....lololololol.....

Later all
Tony

[sdaver]

not to rain on your parade but I think hot vs normal juice would have alot ot do with the difference :D dave

[a64pilot]

Dave,
With boost as long as you are running the stock turbo and intercooler about 30 psi is about the max you want to run. Much more and you are actually losing power due to increased back pressure in the exh. and excessive charge heating etc. I would not block off the waste gate sense line IMHO as you can get some really high pressures that may shorten the headgasket life etc.
You can easily set the max boost point by installing a brass valve in the wastegate sense line and bleeding off excess pressure to atmosphere. Yes some fiddling will be required to get the right pressure, or if you want to be really cool you can put the valve in the drivers compartment and have an adjustable wastegate. On the fly so to speak.

[mtomac]

I have a ball valve inline before the waste gate. I have it adjusted for 25psi. I was hitting 23.5-24psi before adding the valve.

[ 04-23-2003: Message edited by: Micheal Tomac ]</p>

[sdaver]

I have a ball valve also........closed it makes those numbers.........still it cost $8.00 and took 20 minutes :D dave

[BassinRVer]

Can the arm be twisted in with the wastegate installed. I am only getting max 24 PSI with this big head wastegate actuator. And I only ordered the wastegate so was I suppost to get a new hose. My nibble was on the opposite side of the factory nibble.

[ndamico]

BassinRVer,

funny you should ask that. i have adjusted my wastegate actuator with the arm installed. you just remove the two bolts that hold that actuator to its mounting bracket (the one that came with it), presuure it, and turn.

also, i turned my 180* before i installed it so the nipple was pointing towards the driver's side fender.

[BassinRVer]

Thanks, Ndamico.
This is why we have this forum, for idiols like me. I was about to remove the bracket but I was not wanting to remove the two coolant hoses again.

[Amianthus]

a64pilot is right on the money. The purpose of a wastegate is two-fold.

First, it is a mechanical limiter for boost. This will help to keep your cylinder pressures in check so that you don't damage the engine (ie. blown head gasket, cracked rods, use your imagination).

Second, it helps to keep the turbo operating in it's designed efficiency range (map).

For example, a turbo may only use 5 psi to make 8 psi boost. And it may use 15 psi to make 20 psi boost. But there comes a point where it will take more drive pressure than the compressor will be making in boost (ie 50 psi drive pressure to make 40 psi boost). That's when you start over-heating the air charge and also increasing your EGT's. And because drive pressures can get so high, you can cause damage to the engine also.

The reason it does this is because the turbo starts spinning at such a high RPM that the gasses normally going through the turbine are moving at such a high rate of speed, that they cannot impart as much thermal energy as it normally would going through the turbine. It's at that point that the turbine becomes a restriction on the exhaust and where you get the problems listed above.

Now the solution to this is to get a turbo that has the right efficiency map for that amount of fuel and heat. Usually that's a bigger turbo. That brings in bigger lag. And bigger lag brings in more emmissions, and more negative comments from the GP that don't know any better. Quite a dilemma.

Alas, I digress. Getting back to the original issue, keeping your wastegate operational helps keep EGT's in check better than just pinning it shut (for a turbo that may be operating on the fringes of it's efficiency map).

Hope that helps explain things a bit. Don't use me as an example though. I've had my wastegate pinned shut for a while. :D

[mackin]

Amianthus

Dats some scary stuff ...... Scared me straight .... :eek:

So I put my wastegate back to stock ..... Now it sucks .... :(

Lost some out da hole spunk ..... :eek:

I'm putting it back ..... tongue.gif

45 PSI seems to be the limit ,ask Clint .... My gauge doesen't go that high so I gut nothing to worry bout ... Right ?? ;)


MAC

[Amianthus]

Sorta like me, eh mackin? I never go over 30 psi boost and 1500 EGT 'cause that's as high as my gauges will read. ;)

I would think that a Dmax would work very well around 35 psi boost on the stock turbo. Anything more would be a waste of effort. But that's just a guess.

[Silver Bullet]

Any of you BIG HEAD guys want to sell the rod off your stock actuator?

I want to experiment with making my stock actuator adjustable, and having a spare rod is my fallback plan if this experiment doesn't work.

[ 05-09-2003: Message edited by: Silver Bullet ]</p>

[ndamico]

Silver Bullet,

I don't mind getting rid of my stock actuator.. drop me an email

[Silver Bullet]

ndamico...you have mail.