2003 Duramax Towing - Bummed Out!

[cdhd2001]

I tow a 2001 Wildcat 27rk 5th wheel that is 28 ft long and weighs about 8,000 lbs. I used to tow this with 2001 Chevy 6.0L/auto/4.10 truck. I now have a 2003 Duramax Allison with 1,100 miles. Towed for the first time yesterday for about 50 miles. The dmax seemed to strain more getting up to speed than the 6.0L gasser (stomped dmax, half throttle 6.0L). I had a hard time getting to 65 mph on the same relatively flat stretch of road with the same 25 mph cross wind (blows all the time). Once at 65 mph, I set the cruise, which would promptly loose 3 mph from the set speed. On the the handful of hills the cruise would drop to 58 mph and then downshift to stay above 55 mph. I did use the tow/haul for both trucks. The 2001 would drop OD on the same hills, but it would keep the speed and gain speed. My point is the 2001 6.0L sure felt like it got up to speed "easier" and climbed the small grades with more "authority" than the Dmax. Also, the towing mileage for the Dmax sucked! The computer showed only 8.6 mpg for the trip! The 6.0L would easily get 8.5-9.5 mpg towing the trailer (and the previous 10,000 lbs 5th wheel).

Now, on the flip side, the Dmax uloaded mileage is great (17.5 mpg) and the power is okay (roughly same as the 6.0L).

Do you guys have any suggestions other than adding a chip or juice? :rolleyes:

Thanks!

[D/A]

Are you running stock tires?(245's) Mine with 285's is doggie. I know you dont want to add a chip neither did I, but after I did wow. Get the juice and guages you will not be dissapointed. I also had a 6.0 and wouldnt go back for anything.I tow with mine in level 0 or 1 and it takes the hills with ease. Also you truck is so new it will only get better. Mine runs better all the time.

[roegs]

Give it some time to get more miles on it. I tow a 30 ft travel trailer, and my truck has around 4000 miles on it. Each trip, the truck gets stronger! I came from a 454 w 4.10 gears, and would not trade my D/A for anything.

[Applecore]

We ran back from Florida last winter with our D/A and friends with a 6.0 gasser. We have a 37' Big sky Montana they have a 28 ft Yellowstone. They were in the lead because he didn't want to have to try to keep up with me. I had to constantly slow down going up hills to keep from running over him. Give your D/A time. We now have the Juice - wow - level 2 and the hills just seem to go FLAT. The juice takes 2 minuntes tops to install, no holes to drill, just plug and PLAY. Go for it.

[Kirkes]

I dont have any mods yet totaly stock .No problems passing pretty much any simular truck pulling simular trailer (12000#).
GHive it a little time you will grow to love it as much as we do.Plus diesel drive differant than gassers.Takes a little getting used to.
Good luck :D
Brent

[FisHn2DMax]

I pulled my 5'er the first time at 1100 miles and like you I was very disappointed! At 5000 miles, it's a totally different story. Either the truck has more power or I'm learning how to drive it, or both, but it's a totally different truck. I would give it more time and pull your trailer a few more times before making any hard decisions about the DMax.

Good Luck.

[Trippin]

The juice is the only thing that made my 03 a decent truck to tow with. Towing an open trailer and my 3000lb race car with a bed full of tools was disgusting as compared to my 99 6.0 until I got some juice. But then I live in the "Peoples Republic of California" and my truck came emissionized for just such a place. :cool: Added the non-CA juice and I'm a happy guy. Smoke? What smoke? I didn't see anything. :D

[Bullseye54]

We tow a 9100lb 5th wheel toyhauler,when loaded it weighs between 10000 & 11000lbs.It also has a large frontal area.When the truck was new towing was a pain.At about 1200 mi I installed the Predator,what a difference.I had issues with the Predator,so the other day I got the Hot Juice,much better.The point is,the truck now has 5500 mi on it,alot of them towing & before I installed the Juice I drove with stock settings for the day,1st time in 4000 mi.It ran so much stronger than it did new I had to check to make sure it was on stock settings.So when they say it will get better,its the truth.As far as milage I still get around 10mpg towing at 68-70.

[4x4man]

Give it some time.
I to was disappointed with my first tow at 500 miles compared to my 01 8.1L. But as the miles racked up, it towed much better. Now with almost 10,000 miles on the clock it tows so much better than my 8.1L. No way would I trade back. Read back a few months, I made a post comparing my 8.1L and DMAX on Monarch Pass. No question, the DMAX has it hands down once it stretches its legs. Unfortunately for me, I couldn't wait for that to happen, so I juiced it to get the power. I could take the juice off now and am confident it would still tow better than my 8.1L. But now that I have the Juice, why take it off?? :D

Bob

[Big Tow]

Like everybody else has already mentioned, let it get broken in a little. Once past about 10,000 miles it should really loosen up. You will see better power and milage. The Allison will always be too quick to downshift IMO but setting the cruise helps.

[cdhd2001]

Thanks everyone for the replies. After hearing all the hype and bragging from owners (one of the reasons I switched) I did feel "let down". While towing the phrase that kept coming into my mind was "I am waiting to be impressed!". Oh well! Seems I need to be a little more patient. It is hard to wait though! ;) tongue.gif

[HD-Nate]

Initially, I had the same reaction. I had a

[AbqGeorge]

cdhd2001, hmmm sounds familiar. Seem to recall a similar handle over on RV.NET? I'm "gwmayes" over there.

I, too, had a 6.0L (2001). My impression after the very first tow with the D/A and less than 1,000 mi on 'er was the same as yours..... not impressed. Second trip with 2,000 mi. Hmmm, definately better. Third trip with about 5,000 miles on it and I smiled the whole way home.

You see, all these trips were identical. Albuquerque to Ft. Collins and back (gotta visit them grand kids, ya know). I-25 all the way with lots of 6,000' + roads and Raton pass in between.

From Raton south to Las Vegas, NM the wind is ALWAYS (or am I just lucky?) right in your face at around 20-30 mph. The road elevation through here is around 6,500 to 7,000 feet. My 6.0L WOULD NOT/COULD NOT hold high gear (forget about OD). The speed would slowly bleed off from 65 to 60 to 55 to 50 and finally a downshift would be required and voila, I could scream all the way back up to 70 mph in second gear and 5,000+ rpm. In fact, on my final trip with the screamer, when I told the wife we needed a D/A, I had to run from Springer, NM nearly all the way to Las Vegas in 2nd gear!!! And I'll repeat myself.... it WOULD NOT hold high gear at ANY speed. Got 6.3 mpg on that tank from Russel's Truck Stop (near Springer) to the next fill up.

On my third trip with the D/A I ran into almost identical conditions. What was really weird was I didn't even notice the wind was blowing about 30 mph until I stopped at Russell's and the wind nearly ripped the door out of my hands. I'd been running in O/D with the cruise set on about 70 mph. Yep, smiled the rest of the way home. Worse tank ever on the D/A 9.55 mpg. Most of the time 10-11 mpg.

Don't forget, both these engines are rated at 300HP. If you don't mind going over the top of the hill with your foot flat on the floor, in second gear, at around 5,000 rpm then yes, the 6.0L will do that. The D/A will go over the same hill at about 2500 rpm in 4th gear and just doesn't seem to be working very hard at it.

Report back when you get a few more miles on it. As for me, I can hardly wait for my next trip with a little "juice" (thanks JK). From Raton to Albuquerque my stock D/A does drop out of O/D maybe 15 - 20 times on some little nubbins (hills)??? I'm betting NO downshifts smile.gif smile.gif

BTW, I'm right at 15,880 GCW. Probably about the same as your Wildcat?

[Professor]

You guys are killing me. I hit Raton pass with a 5000lb enclosed. I tried to hit it with a bit of steam but the little old lady in front of me got scared and hit the brakes. I started the bottom at about 30mph and was only able to accelerate to 58 by the time I reached the top. 3:73 and 33inch tires have a severe impact. I may have to put a 4:56 in it until I can buy a new DMax!

[cdhd2001]

AbqGeorge OR gwmayes,

I use the same handle (cdhd2001) on ALL forums that I participate in. Yes, the two of us have had some spirited discussions involving the 6.0L

[Camstyn]

Originally posted by Professor:
<snip>3:73 and 33inch tires have a severe impact. I may have to put a 4:56 in it until I can buy a new DMax! I owned a '02 2500HD with the 6.0 and 4.10 rear end for a year.. When I bought my duramax, it came from a different dealer so the dealerships did a vehicle trade. I drove their trade and drove home with my new one. The one I drove up there was a '03 1500HD 4x4, 6.0L with the 3.73 rear end. I honestly could not believe the difference that the rear end ratio makes on that motor! The 3.73 rear end made the truck feel like a real slug. My '02 with the 4.10 rear end feels like it has twice as much power. I'd look at going to 4.10's to achieve your desired result.

As for the Duramax, I've only driven it empty but so far it feels great, I'm really impressed with the power, all that extra torque makes the 6.0 feel like a V6.

[TBC]

I just returned from towing my 8800 lb trailer from Amarillo to the piney woods of east TX to the mountains of NM. 1558 miles. Part of trip was at 70-72 mph (about 1/3) and the rest at 65 mph. I averaged 10.5 with 8.2 as a low when going up hill with a strong wind and 13.3 being best in mountains and downhill. I used the juice on level 2 and set the cruise control and let'er go. It dropped out of OD 4 or 5 times on really long steep pulls but it only took a few seconds to regain speed and go back to OD. Never once did it drop out and then have to go out again.

This is the most enjoyable driving truck when towing that I have ever seen. Without the juice I believe it would have dropped out of OD more often. I loved this truck before juice but after juice it becomes incredible. I am set in level 2 in both modes.

This morning I took a new Dodge HO owner to breakfast and when we returned I punched the truck for a short distance and his comment was "boy this thing really moves out". I told him I didn't even get on it hard. (I didn't floor it.) He says "yea I know". Made him wonder if he made the right choice because he said he didn't like Ford but didn't even check out the GM. That will learn'em as my Dad used to say.

Tom

[Big Tow]

Tom, Sure the d-max is fast, and faster yet with juice but have you towed with the new HO Dodge? I assure you, it makes the d-max seem woefully overloaded and underpowered. Once above 65 in the HO Dodge, you can not get it to come out of OD unless you lock OD out. I find the ride to be smoother and better controlled, the brakes have a firmer feel, the tow mirrors are actually useful and the low end torque has it all over the V8's.

I love my Chevy truck, best truck out there if you tow under 10,000lbs, but to even suggest that the d-max has something over the HO is crazy. Too bad you can pull with them before you buy, it sure would help to keep the facts straight.

[Bigwheel]

Well I have to say that my 2002 has gone through the same for power issues, at first pull had 1500 miles on her, and was VERY dissapointed, went against a new Dodge 2003 clumsly, both of us pulling 20 ft enclosed utility trailers with floor mudd, heavily loaded. But as of today I have 9950 miles, it drives and tow's harder than ever before. I got my truck last August, have had no probs what so ever, but I'm getting some injector issues, really bad fuel economy, getting pretty loud, and I even drive 15 minutes away to buy my fuel from a truck stop only. I know many here have opinions, and strong feelings about the d-max, I'm still not satisified with this trucks pulling power, but I thank God that I don't have some real issues with the new 6.0 Ford...........
:eek: :rolleyes: :confused:

[TBC]

Big Tow

I don't know what you are basing you comments on but I can tell you that a Duramax with juice on level 2, K&N filter and high flow muffler puts out 360 plus HP and near 600 ft lbs torque. This compared to 305 and 550 torque from the stock HO will certainly outrun and outpull any stock HO. I have friends with the HO Dodge and they also drop our of OD as much as mine did but they were only in east Texas in the hills and I was in NM with some long steep pulls. I also didnot drive over 65. If I set the cruise at 70 mph I doubt that it would drop out either.

If you have a power problem maybe you should look into why or how you drive it. Mine has PLENTY of power and I will put it up against any Dodge HO out there with equal mods.

Tom Cobb

[Bobcat698]

When I took the truck and 38 foot fiver to Colorado last summer, my GCVW was 25,000 lbs.

The truck had just over 1000 miles on it.
The truck pulled it VERY well, I put the cruise on on the way to the interstate when I pulled out at 55MPH. Even going up hills it never dropped out of OD, when a 99 F150 I had would drop out of OD EMPTY on the same hills..

While on the Interstate running 65-75MPH, the truck RARELY shifted out of OD.
The first tank of fuel with FEROCIOUS head winds was 8.48MPG, but after that it was almost always over 10, with a high of 13 while coming down from the mountains.. Average was 11MPG.

The only time it ran high R's for a while was while going through the mountains outside of Denver heading towards Aspen.
3rd gear at around 55MPH near redline with the fan on.
It was MUCH better than the 2000 2500 6.0L 3.73 5 speed. We ran 4th gear at 70MPH pretty much all the way out there, and you'd have to floor it at the bottom of a hill to maintain speed...
In the mountains it was 2nd & 3rd gear running 25MPH, then on the way DOWN it was 3rd gear running 80MPH at times...
Allison grade breaking kept the speed down nicely with the Duramax.

The only thing not stock in the Duramax is the K&N filter, otherwise its stock with a bug deflector & running boards. Maybe its the LT package?? tongue.gif

Garrett

[a64pilot]

Big tow,
Stock for stock we may not be able to out pull the HO, I don't know. But put $800 in both trucks and the Dmax out pulls it. There seems to be more power in just software changes in the Dmax than there is in the Cummins. Yes highly modded, cost is no object the Cummins wins every time.
I've always said the Cummins is a very good engine, the only drawback to it is the package it comes in :D

[Derek M]

Here's a real test with real numbers measured by accurate test equipment (ie no seat of the pants it feels faster stuff).

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/stories/2003shootout/page1.html

Check out all three parts in the test.

Seems to me the 4 year old Duramax holds it's own pretty well against the latest Cummins HO offering.

[Flyboy]

No mention if tow-haul mode was used or not. I wonder if it would have made much difference?

[TBC]

I used T/H all the way. Many times I would turn T/H off to make the trans shift to OD at a lower speed. Then turn it right back on T/H.

There must be a lot of us that really like this truck because I see many come through the RV park in which I am temporarily residing. There are current 5 in here and have seen as high as 8 at a time and see many on the highway on I-40 and US 287. GM seems to not be able to keep up with the orders.

Tom

[DURAMONSTER]

Big Tow
The dmax will pass the dodge when all the parts and peices fly out of the piece of crap tranny in the dodge.

[DURAMONSTER]

Bullseye54
What issues did you have with the predetor. Im just about ready to order one. Should I?

[peachin]

Read up to "Bobcat" His towing thru the Rockies!
What do you suppose his EGT's were when he was pushing 25,000CGVW. I'm surprised he did not melt his pistons.

Since I got my pyrometer - and the juice and I am towing 19000 CGVW - I am surprised at how fast
I reach 1250 degrees (EGT) Even If I turn off the juice - It gets there pretty fast.

The Juice is great - but it just narrows the temperature gap where - you just have let up

Am I wrong? I have the stock muffler - they tell me that the best exhaust system is only going to
drop the temp by 100 degrees at the high end - I'm open for suggestions or other opinions

[Bigwheel]

Big Tow,
Unfortunatly your out numbered on this page since pretty much of these guy's need Edge & or Juice or Prediators to jusitfy their investments, or why can't I go toe to toe with my Dodge buddy totally stock????? We pulled'em side by side, sorry I lost.....
Just like Mac says it, GM makes, Edge powers it, then we roll the dice to see how long she last's with-out re-working it. :rolleyes:
After reding this pull-off I'm even more pi--ed. Pick-up.com (http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/stories/2003shootout/part3page3.html)

[ 08-10-2003, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Bigwheel ]

[Bobcat698]

Originally posted by peachin:
Read up to "Bobcat" His towing thru the Rockies!
What do you suppose his EGT's were when he was pushing 25,000CGVW. I'm surprised he did not melt his pistons.
I'm sorry but shouldn't GM be able to produce a motor that will not exceed maximum temperatures while in stock form?
I mean it has safety features that reduce engine power when the engine gets hot...

Truck & Trailer Picture (http://www.bbar10.com/Duramax/trucktrailer.jpg)

How do you suppose this guy manages with his 454 & 5 speed with 4.10???
The GVW on his truck assumes its the weight of the truck & trailer together, he pulls 4 axle 40 or 50 foot flat beds..
http://www.bbar10.com/jcwght.jpg http://www.bbar10.com/jctruck2.jpg

[Lone Eagle]

Towing here in the Rockies is just like towing anywhere else except our hills are called mountains because they are several miles from bottom to top. They also rise several thousand feet instead of hundreds. No such thing as getting a run at three miles of a 6% grade. I tow at 65-68 MPH on the flat and on the hills. On the rare occasions where the EGT get up around 1300 in 5th gear I force a down shift to fourth, slow down to 60 and all is well. I learned early on that I am not smarter than the computers that control the engine, trans and cruise control. I use the cruise whenever I can especially on the long hills. I am only pulling a 10K Wildcat so I am having fun not working. I haven't had the pleasure of testing my truck against a new Ford or Dodge. That was an interesting article on all three brands on the little hills where the EGT was not a problem. Maybe they could do it in Montana next year. Later! Lone Eagle ;)

[ 08-10-2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Lone Eagle ]

[Big Tow]

I guess that all I have to offer is REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE with all three brands in REAL WORLD day to day operating conditions. I don't have any mods on any of the trucks except aftermarket air filters.

The Chevy's are nice trucks, I am on my second one now. I put nearly 100k on my '01 so I KNOW exactly how they pull. I didn't drop $45k on the '03 because I think the trucks stink. There is now way you will ever convince me that the D-max is a better puller than the HO Cummins. Until you have actually done it, which none of you appearantly have, I think you are out of your league.

As for the D-max being 4 years old, check your math, the first ones were '01's, it is 2003. The HO Cummins is not new, it is new with an auto trans, which btw has been seriously upgraded, and no longer flys apart as suggested.

It is a stupid argument anyway. Brand loyalty is for guys with their heads in the sand. I buy what works. I have tried them all. I know what works. That is why my wife drives the Chevy and the Dodges are my work trucks.

[Lone Eagle]

The 03 Dodges & Fords should pull better just like the Dmax did in 01 & 02. They both had to redesign or build new equipment to catch up. GM forced them to upgrade or loose sales. I suspect we will see the balance of power shift after the first of the year. I will let you know when one passes me on the hill. Don't hold your breath. Later! Lone Eagle :D