Personal Experinece, K&N, Stock, Amsoil

[afp]

I had a K&N Aircharger intake system on my truck since the second day I owned it (truck had about 500 miles on it when I installed the K&N system). When I put the K&N intake on, the turbo seemed to be a little more responsive than it was with the stock system/paper filter. I ran with the K&N intake system for 10 months and 11,500 miles with no problems. I added the Juice about 6 months ago.

My cold idle lope has become bad enough where I have to take the truck in. The service manager told me to make sure I had a stock system to include a stock paper air filter and absolutely no modifications (IE, added holes in the airbox). So I put the stock system back on last night.

Last night, the truck did seem a little more sluggish in terms of throttle response. This morning, the truck seemed a tad slow whe all of a sudden it seemed to "wake up." It started feeling like it did with the K&N Aircharger system. It even started to sound like it had the Aircharger on.

I then got an Amsoil filter and installed it in the stock intake system. To be honest, it felt about like it did with the new (clean) paper filter. I then changed the fuel filter this afternoon, the truck seems to run as hard as it ever has.

Looking back, in a 24 hour period I ran the truck with the K&N Aircharger, a totally stock system with a clean paper filter, and then the stock system with the Amsoil filter.

Many things come to mind. First of all, "seat-of-the-pants" isn't a reliable way to gauge performance. I won't know for sure until I put a G-tech back in the truck or run it at the strip.

The guys at Edge have said repeatedly that they found no difference in HP on the dyno between a stock paper filter or an open intake. Perhaps the biggest restriction in the intake isn't the air filter.

Maybe my inital perception the the K&N aircharger incresing turbo response was due more to the truck breaking in then the change in intake. Maybe the slighty louder noise just gave me the feeling the turbo was responding better. Perhaps a clean paper filter does inded flow all the air this engine needs. If that is the case, the advantage an Amsoil filter would provide is better filtration and maintaining adequate airflow when it's gets dirty (a paper filter would like not flow enough if dirty).

Comments anyone?

Blaine

[Smittybilt]

I just installed an AFE Stage II intake system in my 2002 Dmax and took it for a ride. The most noticeable difference was the lounder turbo whine. The turbo did seem to spool up faster than with the stock system but then as you said that was just a seat of the pants feeling. All in all I'm happy with the change. Besides, it looks pretty buff in there when you pop the hood and see that huge gray snorkel trying to pop out of the engine bay. Now if I could only get a 2001 engine cover as my 2002 cover has an outlet for the extra pice of tubing on it. Only time will tell. Rey smile.gif

[TBC]

I replaced a standard K&N filter with a K&N filter charger. There was a big difference in power over the standard K&N. This was at 23,000 miles so it was broke in. I installed an Edge Juice at 24,000 miles and run it on level 3. The truck really runs strong now. I was very surprised at how much difference the filter charger made. It was most noticeable when the turbo can in. A big difference in performance. I would recommend a filter charger kit over the standard aftermarket oiled filters based on the way my truck performs.

Tom

[Oongawah]

afp,

Did the fuel filter fix it? As far as my intake, I noticed immediately after installing mine(first mod on the truck), I gained full throttle response. Before, the last quarter throttle wasn't any different than 3/4 throttle. After installing the intake, and before anything else, this problem went away. Mine didn't breakin til about 25K. Love this truck, Chuck.

[afp]

Chuck,

The fuel filter hasn't done anythimg about the cold idle lope. I didn't really expect it to, but when I take the truck in they will check the fuel filter for restriction. Since I have a new one it should eliminate that potential cause and more quickly gte them to the root of the problem, which is probbaly the fuel pressure regulator.

TBC,

I am not trying to start a fuss, just more questions and discussion. How do you know your truck makes more power with the K&N Aircharger system? Throttle response and seat of the pants feel are nice but unreliable indicators. The only reliable way to tell is with "before and after" data from a dyno, on the strip, or perhaps with a G-tech. The Juice guys have already said there isn't a power difference on the dyno with the various intake systems. I have speculated that the K&N Aircharger blocks off hot underhood air, but then so dos the facory box. Now if you replaced a dirty paper filter with a K&N, then there would indeed be a big diference.

Blaine

[king D]

when i installed my k-n system i did some before and after 0-60 times on a 90 hp chip setting and got better times by over a sec..jess

[afp]

Jess,

Thanks for the data. Was your "before" test with a new paper filter or did it have some miles on it?

Blaine

[king D]

under 300 miles on the filter

[LanduytG]

An air filter in a turbo charged engine will NOT make more HP. But what it will do is increase turbo responce which makes it seem like more power. The turbo is going to put in what ever air the computer is calling for no matter what air filter you have in it.

Greg

[afp]

Greg,

How do we then account for Jess' improved 0-60 times? I guess we do need to ask Jess how he timed his runs. Jess, did you use a stop watch, aG-tech, or something else?

Blaine

[king D]

i used 1 mississippi, 2 mississippi,3 ext...no i used a gtechand lanched in 4wheel drive at 1500rpms.and not to argue about an air filter giving hp but a stopped up or dirty air filter shore as heck will kill the power on my dozen or so pieces of john deere green equipment.also simple reason says that less restriction means more air to combust with faster.also another point to ponder before the k-n with 90hp chips we got good black smoke,however when we added the systems black smoke went down,why maybe cause there was more air to help burn all that extra fuel thus better 0-60 times.and also i put one on a powersuck with a 65hp chip on for a buddy and he got .7 sec better times.also with the k-n i could get more boost.now i realize 3 trucks do not make this gospel but ,anyhow maybe you dont get more hp on a turbo engine with less air restriction but my real world experience say it is bogus...correct me if im wrong thanks in advance...jess

[a64pilot]

The computer does not control boost in a Dmax. It's a mechanically controlled wastegate.
My .02c is that an aftermarket induction system probably dosen't make more power, more responsive probably so. My K&N does lower EGT's though and like an aftermarket exh. while not directly making more power by lowering EGT's I can now add more fuel before I overtemp the engine. So while it does not add power by itself it does allow more power to be added over the stock configuration.

[LanduytG]

Computor or mechanical control the turbo is still only going to deliver X amount of air. Resonce is better which would account for better times. Now in a NA engine, yes HP increase is possible.

Greg

[a64pilot]

Any air pump will deliver less air flow if there is a significant restriction on it's intake side.
There are two questions here.
1. Define siginificant.
2. Does more air flow equal more power?
I don't know what the answer is to 1.
On two, more air will equate to more power because it's the expansion of air, not an explosion that provides the down force on the piston to drive the truck. More air or more heat equals higher cylinder pressures and more power.
So why don't we just disable the wastegate and get more power? The answer is that there is a point where the turbo is most efficient due to turbo sizing, heat exchanger size, fuel delivery rate, exhaust back pressure, etc. So if you don't change any other variables, the stock setting would probably be close to the most efficient.
Now if you can reduce the intake restriction you will get more air into combustion chamber without having to work the turbo so hard. It would show up as more boost earlier than normal, I.E. more responsive and therefore a better towing vehicle.
I believe that an induction system will be similar to an exh. sys. for similar reasons. Neither one will directly make that much more power, but both should allow more power to be made due to lower EGT's.

[Kennedy]

I think this is another situation where "real world" gains are observed, but dyno results are not. I expect that the gains are in turbo response time, and could well be substantial.

[sdaver]

cool factor alone is worth 3 tenths.........seriously I THINK ITS MAKES A BIG REAL WORLD DIFFERENCE.... :D dave

[LanduytG]

a64pilot

Extra air in a diesel can only make more power if you have extra fuel to go with it. You can crank up the air to much and loose power as well if you don't have the fuel to go with it.
Greg

[a64pilot]

LanduytG,
In a Diesel engine more air will result in more power because the volumetric efficiency (sp?) is increased. Turbo or N/A. This is not true in most spark ignition engines as they have to maintain an air to fuel ratio. In other words the more air molecules available to absorb the heat of combustion, then the greater the pressure increase will be from combustion. This is true up to a point of course. Trying to increase the turbo out put of the stock turbo by much will very quickly put you behind the power curve. You will use more power to compress the air than you extract from it.
I realize that in stock trim you will be regulated to about 23 psi boost (max). No kind of intake modification will increase this number. However if you decrease the intake restriction you will get to 23 psi boost sooner and with less exhaust back pressure.
The trigger is does the stock induction and stock filter have a "siginificant" restriction? I believe that it does at higher air flow. Going to the K&N in my truck dropped the empty cruise at 75 MPH EGT by about 25 deg. At idle and low power settings there is no difference. I believe that at higher air flows the drop is greater. I have noticed no real diff. in fuel consumption either.
The draw back is the MIL lights sometimes. This has been greatly reduced by adding the outerwrap on the K&N filter, but it is still there.
Basically my point is that if you reduce air restriction going into and out of an engine you will gain in throttle responsiveness and lower EGT's. The more air you can move through the engine then the more additional fuel you can add safely.
I don't believe that on a Dyno you would see much of a total increase in power. You would see a shorter time to pressure reading on the turbo if you were instrumented to do.
What you should see real world is say 20 lbs of boost on the hill that you would normally see only 18 and maybe due to the decreased spool time on the turbo you may even not have to downshift, "maybe".

[chuntag95]

I think this is a case where you don't get "more" power, but you get it sooner. The quicker it is there, the faster you reach the same speed. Overall acceleration has increased even if power has not. You "feel" that it is faster, which we associate with more power. I know that there have been times when I was doing Hp runs on a G-Tech that it "felt" like there was more than the G-Tech said. The bottom line is one of 3 things. 1. Do you get to the finish line before the other guy? 2. Do you tow with lower EGT and fewer downshifts? 3. Are you happy with the performance you get with the mod of your choosing?

[a64pilot]

Chris,
That's pretty much it in a lot fewer words. ;)

[chuntag95]

WOW! :eek: I think that is the first time I have ever been accused of having a short technical statement. :D

Oh, I forgot my answers:
1. So far so good, but I always pick my battles carefully.
2. Don't know yet. Looking for a big enough mountain.
3. For the most part, but still looking for more ;) Supposed to get some too.
:cool:

[afp]

The next question is how does an Amsoil or K&N in a stock air box, as well as a modified airbox, compare to the K&N Aircharger or AFE in terms of real world performance?

Today I was making sure my truck was fully "learned up" with my Juice after the dealer reflashed my ECM for the lopey idle and reflashed the TCM for OD lockout. With an Amsoil filter in my stock (for now) airbox and Juice on level four, I made several full throttle runs. On one I was going slighly uphill at 30 mph on a freeway on ramp and floored it. The tires broke loose. I do not remember it doing that with the Aircharger, but that isn't really a valid comparison.

Blaine

[mackin]

Chris has it correct ...... All your eliminating is turbo lag.....

Performance between Ole'Oily and AFE,notta.....Ole'Oily may have better filtering qualities...Where is my oil analysis kit ??? Calling CT diesel dude.....May just have to drive to Newington me self, and fetch one.....

Increased turbo whirling and whistle with AFE is heard....Additional boost will also be generated with AFE,useable,that is debatable.....I'm not even gonna tell you what I bounced my needle to yesterday ...... :eek:

MAC

[ 04-15-2003: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[afp]

Thinking about all this, if the extra airflow only allows earlier turbo response, then the biggest benefit would be in daily driving. Stalling it against the convertor and launching in 4WD might not show much difference in ETs with either system.

Blaine

[king D]

perhaps stalling out all balls to the wall nothing will be seen but at 1500 rpm 4x4 launch the free the breath the better the responce...jess