Oil Analysis

[mackey_62]

Just got my analysis results back from 5,600 mi. change. Basically everything looked OK, except Copper was about 116 I think (left it home). Think it said normal was around 15 for copper. Anybody want to tell me not to worry about this right now?
Is copper going to go down to "normal" level?
Where is copper coming from?
Anyone else seen this, how come other elements were much closer to "normal" levels?

By the way, 0.0 fuel and antifreeze.

Mac

[POS]

According to www.Blackstone-Labs.com

Copper: Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil coolers, also an additive in some gasoline engine oils.

My guess would be bearings since I'd imagine the copper added to the engine oils is not so far out of spec to give you such a high reading.

[mackey_62]

My understanding that high copper is acceptable in new motor. Wondering if mine is in line with what other guys are seeing or saw at 5,600 miles.

This was third change. Changed at 750, 2500, 5600.
Wish I had numbers with me, silicon is almost down to normal level. Which makes me think I'm approaching end of "break-in". Why isn't copper as close to "normal" as the silicon.

Am I worrying about nothing?

[george morrison]

You did not indicate what oil you are using. Some oils use ancient formulations which indicate copper in the oil analysis and are not really from the engine but oil additization.. Some Castrol formulations would report a high copper reading, for example.
Need more information.....
George Morrison, STLE CLS

[SoMnDMAX]

My truck's copper level started out @ 25 PPM when I first tested it at 6,000 miles. Every change it has dropped, down to 7 PPM @ 16,900 miles. I'm changing oil this weekend, and I fully expect the copper level to drop further. I'm running Chevron Delo 400 15w-40.

Typically, the copper comes from the wrist pin bushings, and any other thrust surfaces (crank thrust, thrust washer behind the cam gear, etc..)

[AKDmax]

mackey_62,
what company are you using to do your analysis? Wanting to check mine at the 5000 change. Thanks

[Edmac]

Just got my analysis back yesterday from Oil Analyzers (Amsoil).
Oil had 5827 Miles on the change. (a lot of that towing)Added one pint of make up oil. The truck has about 30,000 miles on it. They also said that the truck could run for another change interval with this oil.I am running Amsoils 15-40 oil and an Amsoil air filter.
Results :
Soot <1.
OXD. 21.1%
NOX. 10.0
TBN 12.1
Iron 13
Lead 7
Copper 6
Tin 1
Alum 6
Silicon 5
Boron 36
Calcium 4308
Phosphorus 1213
Zinc 1369
Magnesium 39
Rest are 0

Ed

[mackey_62]

George,

Oil is being changed by dealer for free. "Caught" them using Federated brand oil. Federated is a local parts supply store. My work orders state Shell Rotella but that is not what I'm getting. I'm sure Federated is produced by a larger petro company and bottled in Federated package. Trust me, I'm not happy they were using it. So from now I do it myself. Another 3,000 mi and I'll be using Rotella. When that interval is done I'll sample again, will be around 12,000 mi. Shortly after that I think I'll be switching to synth.
Went thru Blackstone Labs for sample.

Mac

[george morrison]

Without using an oil I am familiar with baseline, it is difficult to evaluate. Again, I have seen 50 level copper reported in an engine due to engine oil additization and was not the result of any wear; when the vehicle was switched to another brand, the copper was low single digits. Castrol, for one, used to use an additive which reported as copper.
And, it is difficult also to do evaluation on just one sample. There are so many variables; i.e. was the sample captured properly, was the sample bottle contaminated, representative sample, etc.
Moreover, *very* unusual to just have high copper alone; bearings will most generally indicate lead, tin, elevated also.
As for oil analysis kit source, avlube.com carries them for around $15 with the added bonus of me coming along with the results so we can discuss just what those numbers are saying as I get a back copy of the analysis. The lab is ISO 9000 and not afficiated with any oil company.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

[TimT]

First oil change with the AMSOIL 15w40-- My results from Oil Analyzers are right on with Edmac's. 4312 Miles on oil, total 28k on truck. Just changed over from Mobil Delvac 1300 Super, and waiting on the analysis from CTC for the same sample.
Iron 5
Lead 2
Copper 3
Tin 1
Manganese 1
Silicon 5
Boron 39
Magnesium 37
Calcium 4396
Phosphorus 1223
Zinc 1339
Moly 16
Their comments "Oil Suitable for continued use"

Well,OK, but I think I'll continue to change the oil around 5000 miles. Thanks

[Kennedy]

Ive seen copper drop steadily from 75. Not sure what the OE fill is, but IIRC, it is Mobil.

I just sent of dual samples of my last 10k dump on Amsoil 5w30 to both US Oil Check and AV Lube. It will be interesting to see. I now have Delo 400 in the Dmax, and will run a short term, then try Delvac 1 for a while...

Looking fwd to analysis results AND George's expert advice!

[mackey_62]

Any thoughts on using Blackstone labs.
That is where we used to send samples from Fire Dept. trucks, only reason I picked them.
Anyone want to "suggest" another lab?? ie: Avlube
I trust Blackstone, unless someone tells me different.

[LanduytG]

We have Oil Analyzer (Amsoil)kits. Cost is abeatable at $14. This includes postage to the lab and report back. Also includes TBN and soot levels which some labs do not do unless you pay extra.
Here is a link to the Blackstone lab and Oil Analyzers lab of the same used oil sample.

http://www.lubespecialist.com/analyzers.htm
http://www.lubespecialist.com/blackstone.htm

Greg

[TXMAX]

The following comes from the Lube Specialist weekly newsletter. It may help some of you shed additional light on this subject.

WHERE did the METAL come from?
WHAT type of ADDITIVES are in my oil?
PdMA Corporation offers a FREE elemental origins chart, in a PDF format, displaying possible originating sources of a variety of elements.

To receive your free copy contact Lana Robin at Lana@pdma.com

Have a great Independence Day!

Abe

Correction on the origin, it's the Lube-Tips weekly email newsletter.

I already received the report they refer to. I tried to copy it to this msg but No Joy so you'll have to do it on your own.

[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: TXMAX ]</p>