Diesel Power (not worth it) [Archive] - TheDieselPage.com Forums

bartman

10-25-2003, 16:58

I'm a bit shocked that a lot of people on the forum refer the dealer as the "stealer" I've been in the auto retailing business for 11 years (all of it at the same dealer-Chevy and GMC) I'm not ashamed to say that we make a profit on nearly every unit we sale, just as I'm sure that nearly everyone of the advertisers on this forum make a profit when they sell somthing to you. Profit is not a dirty word. Now about used car and truck values...for the most part they have fallen because of the huge incentives that the new market is providing. Used values tend to vary from region to region as well on certain models. I will gladly tell anyone that they will almost always get more for their proposed trade by selling it themselves. A lot of people don't have the time or flat out don't want the hassle. Be glad you bought a GM truck, because you ought to see what Fords and Dodges bring for trade values :( You can buy Fords and Dodges a dime a dozen at most auctions, but try to find good, clean GM trucks...and they usually bring book or close to it. Don't think of us as thieves. We are, for the most part, a bunch of good people...just like you! :D Just my 2 cents.

SoCalDMAX

10-25-2003, 19:43

Bartman,

I agree with you, there is no shame in making a profit and nobody likes to hear a negative connotation attached to their profession.

When I walk into a Walmart, the prices are fixed and no haggling is required. I think if a person walked into a dealership and didn't haggle, the salespeople would be happy to write up the deal at full MSRP. Then they'd suggest undercoating, teflon wax, floor mats and an extended warranty for about $4,000 extra.

But a savvy buyer can do a lot better than that. Save $5,000 - $6,000 off MSRP, get the add-on stuff cheaper elsewhere, etc. Look at the normal prices charged for parts at the parts dept. Then compare them to the on-line prices for genuine GM parts. In some cases, the local dealers are charging over 100% more than the on-line store, and the on-line store is making a good profit.

I'm still in agreement that it's not polite to call the dealer that name, but I can understand how some people feel about exorbitant prices at some dealerships.

Regards, Steve

bartman

10-25-2003, 20:32

Steve, thanks for the support. I agree totally with some of the points that you made, however, lay-downs (defined as someone who doesn't negotiate at all) are far and few between. In the past 11 years, we have seen average gross profits on new vehicles dwindle by a staggering 40%. The internet has a lot to do with this as shoppers are privy to information such as invoice prices and a host of "hints" on how to negotiate a good deal. We have an internet department at our dealership, and to tell you the truth, if I wasn't in the business, it's where I would go to buy a truck! We actually encourage customers to "shop" around and become informed, because ultimately it leads to a much smoother transaction and better customer satisfaction. I'm not going to act naive and say that there aren't scrupulous dealers and sales reps out there, but for the most part, I think the auto industry has made a change for the better. Now back to the trade issue, dealers are always looking to put the least amount they have to into a trade because they have to take into account things like reconditioning, marketing and commisions to pay out... all of which add up in a hurry! But, at the end of the day, we as Managers and sales professionals have one group of people to thank, and that's all of you guys buying our trucks (and cars)...THANKS! smile.gif

20051006|3|009102|000012|63.158.193.198

10-25-2003, 20:34

I just recently bought my first diesel.

White 2001 Chev 2500HD Dur/All 4x4 LT Crew Cab, all options except the DVD player.
38,500 miles on it. It was very clean.

Paid $29,000 used and I think I got a great deal. I spent over two months pouring over ads and AutoTrader.com. I'm in the So Cal market and everytime a used one came up for sale under 30k and under 50k mileage they were snapped up immediately.

I know I will continue to see my truck depreciate down to the high teens over the next five years, but the depreciation curve is steepest in the first three years. :eek:

And yes, there were almost always twice as many Fords than GMC/Chevys to look at. smile.gif :D

maDmax990

10-25-2003, 20:52

Hi everyone-

Yeah. What SoCal said.

Bartman, maybe you could help us understand why dealers play "the game."

Maybe I'm an aberration. I read about these trucks (in these fine pages) for at least a year before I even got serious about buying one. So I didn't even need a sales guy, but I went through all the rigamaroll with a local dealer on my first attempt. Dumb idea, but like I said, maybe I'm just not mentally wired right for the typcial sales "process."

BTW, this was March 2002.

1) The salesperson (I'm trying to be nice here) knows way less about the product than I do, but I play nice.
2) Salesperson works out a "deal" for something like $400 off a $44,056 sticker.
3) I laugh, say "try again." He gives me some pure BS about this one being "the only one in the area," which I know is either an outright lie or he's just stupid.
4) Salesperson goes back to "see the manager."
5) Said guys play game of darts or tiddley winks.
6) Salesperson comes back with another $200 off.
7) I leave, really PO'd. Salesperson can't figure it out. Maybe he thought he was going to land a Big Stupid One (like Patrick from SpongeBob).
8) I get on GM BuyPower and send e-mails to every dealer within 200 miles, saying I'm willing to pay $2k over invoice, no BS, just come and get it.
9) Two dealers bite, wind up making the deal 2 days later. Drove to Ohio to pick 'er up, been thrilled with the truck ever since.
10) Salesperson send me a "thank you" note, and then in a postscript, says "You know we made a mistake on the invoice, please send me another customer." What an idiot. I wrote them such a scathing letter that the owner called me.

Yeah, I know, there are a few of you out there that think $2k over invoice is still a ripoff, but that's about where the CC/SB market was at the time. Anywho....

So what I'd like to know is this: do dealerships have a business model that measures success in ripping off the unknowing and unsuspecting? Is it a good day when grandma pays $2000 more for her Buick than some educated businessman who knows how to play the game and win? And how goofy does it sound when you hear salespeople say they "lose money" on a car? How is that possible? Do customers pull a Jedi mind trick on your or something?

Maybe it will just never work, but I think it would be great to walk into a dealership that says, "hey, we make 5% on everything we sell." And then they could fire all the aforementioned useless people working there and replace them with two intelligent individuals who can ink straight-up deals.

Call me cynical, but there seems to be zero movement of the car buying process toward anything that I would call straightforward OR ethical. It's the same stupid "game," year after year.

Bartman, if you're a good guy, then keep doing the right thing. But if the world of car dealers really are interested in customer respect, they'd sure change the way "the game" is played. Respect is earned, and so is disrespect.

Don't even get me started on service departments.

Regards, Mat

SoCalDMAX

10-25-2003, 21:05

Along the same vein as DurAllison's post, I was feeling VERY dejected and let down when my injector stuck and engine died, stranding me 950 mi from home.

GM roadside assistance was all over it. She called the local dealer, a tow co. with an extra truck to tow my trailer (I had everything except my house with me!) and arranged a rental car.

The tow truck shows up, and to add insult to injury it's an IH with the Navistar. He asks how I like my truck and I reply that it's great, when it's not on a tow truck. He chuckles and tells me, "I rarely get GMs on the back. They run great, and the Allison is an awesome trans. I can't tell you how many Fords and Dodges I've had on here, mostly trans problems. You can make good power with a diesel, but towing through these mountains just kills those trans. Just not tough enough for heavy loads." That made me feel a lot better.

I got a new engine installed and GM paid for the month of rental car. The only thing I paid for was gas home and back. I can't really complain, even though I always try. ;)

After hearing about Ford and Dodge horror stories with warranty denial or telling customers it's not really a problem, the great customer service GM provides (in most cases) is definitely something to factor into the whole equation of value or even what to buy.

Big THANK YOUs to Bartman, Dmaxallitech, SteveO, TurboAl, and all of the other great members who provide us with great info, service and value. It's sometimes worth more than the actual vehicle.

Regards, Steve

EWC

10-26-2003, 06:18

Last month I wanted to trade for a used 2002 Duramax CC dually . I loaded up my 96 HD Bad Boy , 96 Buell S1 Lightning , 88 Chevy Sportside and my 95 2500 6.5 Silverado to see what I could get for them . Dealer offered me $14,000 for the whole package . Needless to say , they are still in the driveway . I don't have a problem with the dealers making a profit but when you add all the incentives and the holdback , that they get at the end of the year , you will have a hard time telling me the dealers are just scrapping by .

bobojay

10-26-2003, 07:42

Just as an aside, I have a coworker that just recently bought a new Caddy Escalade. He paid the GM Employee price for it, which by the way, several dealers here in the Kansas City area are advertising this weekend as being available to everyone till the end of the month. But not being very car buying knowledgeable, he was sold the full add on's, undercoat, fabric protection paint sealer etc. for $3000.00 more.
He was very happy with the deal. Thought he did good. I guess that's what really counts, happy customer. He takes it there for every oil change and they wash & detail it for him at no charge.

So I guess, it's really what makes your boat float. Personally, I thought he got ripped off and told him so.

My dealer only see's ours if there's a warranty problem........... smile.gif

deerhunter7

10-26-2003, 07:50

The only Dealers I will work with is start Invoice Price . 2 Dealers said no with a long song and dance . 1 said we will Deal off of Invoice. Now I ordered In July 2001 before the 0% and rebates. Got 500.00 under Bluebook for my trade . Paid 600.00 over invoice for 2002 Silverado D/A combo . In Oct, when it came in they also gave me the 0% Financing .Todays used market is depressed when for a few thousand dollars you can buy new instead of low mile used. The only way I see coming out good is keep for 150, to 200, thousand. Thats my plan. Also the more you pay for a auto or truck the bigger the depreciation. Matter who I have talked to and what they are trading in it's the same story.

Bigwheel

10-26-2003, 10:00

Bartman:
After I got my 02 DMAX, I had some issues with my truck, and the Tech I dealed with, was going to school at the same time when I got my truck. When I asked questions about this and that, there was " Can't give ya an answer on that, will have to get back to you " as my face cringed with, get back to me..... what the heck is that, pay how much for these trucks and get that in return. Well that's how stealer came to be a recognised name, it's only when people are not given the support after paying some serious coin for these DMAXES, and if you've been reading on here for over a year, you've read what's been happening with some people & customer support, same with me, I had to goto another dealer to get my satisfaction ( how embarrasing ) to have to do that..... :rolleyes: , it was enough to look into trading in for a different make of truck, but they wanted $ 6,500 to trade an 02 DMAX for another 03 diesel. Nice re-sale..... :eek:

LanceW

10-27-2003, 06:10

Hey DuraMax3, the first 3 years and 30,000 miles are when you get hit the worst with depreciation... add that to an incentive-heavy market, and I'm not surprised to see the trade-in quotes you got. Sorry, but that's the price you pay for trading every few years.

The only way to "make" money on ANY vehicle is to buy it two years old and run it until the wheels fall off. Trading every few years keeps you in that "new-car" smell, but it's the most expensive way you can go.

As for the "stealers"... well, my truck only has 195k on it, unless I hit the lotto I don't plan to trade any time soon. When I do, I'm going to do the research, know EXACTLY what I want, then give the closest 7 or 8 dealers a chance to get it for me. No add-ons, no BS, just tell me exactly what the final number will be.

rcarbs

10-27-2003, 06:32

Bartman........I will always refer to Dealers as Stealers, not because of the sales force but the service department. It is criminal what stealers charge people who don't have the knowledge of vehicles that those on this board do. I had a friend that called me and asked what a HEPA filter was on his AC system. The STEALER wanted $150 to change it, due to the intense labor required to "remove the dash" to access the filter. I told him that I would show him so he was no longer at the mercy of that particular STEALER. Each one of us can probably come up with many examples of STEALERS robbing customers in the service dept. My opinion is to get the best deal by working off of invoice, if they wont do that then leave. Utilize the service dept under warranty conditions then find a good private mechanic for everything after the warranty period. Beleive me those huge Stealerships are not built by Stealers profit margins going down.

McRat

10-27-2003, 19:00

The internet HAS made car buying easier for educated buyer.

Our last 4 vehicles were all internet sales. The price we paid was agreed to BEFORE we stepped onto the lot, and the purchases all took ~1 hr to complete.

I want the dealer to make profit, but I also want a fair deal. If something is going for $5 on the average, I want it for $5. Not $4 or $6. I never pay MSRP, and always negotiate from the invoice.

20050824|7|006327|000000|216.230.93.198

10-27-2003, 23:19

I am surprised after reading about all the posts that no one has caught onto something. Why in the hell are we dealing with Salespeople? I have purchased a great many cars always via a Salesperson while my former boss always dealt directly with the Fleet Manager. He never dealt with the BS some of us including myself had by doing this.

Dealing with Salespeople:

You get personnel who know nothing of the car or truck or as a MadMax said in an earlier post "I knew more then the saleperson did". Shame on the dealer and its people in my eyes. You want to sell the product then god darn it know the product. 2ndly they are not there in my eyes to save you any money they are there to make the most they can because that translates into a bigger commission bottom line.

Fleet Managers-

I finally bought my truck 03 Duramax this way and OH MY GOD People its the way to go....There is no haggling no nada. You decide what you want and either order it up or dealer locate it. Fleet is always cheaper you still get all the rebates and incentives without the crap! I will NEVER EVER deal with the normal sales people at a dealership ever again. Its off to the Fleet Manager I go. What this requires is you know and have done the research on what vehicle you desire.

In my eyes I think we the consumers need to pull our heads out of our rumps. Too long have we played stupid and ignorant by not doing our homework. As a result yup YOU GET SCREWED!!!! By all means I am not defending the dealers out there because face it too many of them seem to want to make the most they can by screwing people. POOR POOR ETHICS which in my book if your willing to screw me your willing to screw anyone for your own self preservation. If they want to earn my respect and the respect of others...Start doing whats right....Dont screw your customers....Know your product.....Help your customer save money, make a FAIR profit, and make a repeat buyer out of them. As a consumer be educated...unfortunately if you fail this part well its your bust. Like I said I am not defending them because I too have been screwed over many times until I wised up.
I had to become an educated consumer to ensure I was getting the best deal possible and even thats no gaurantee.

Bottom Line-
I do very much agree with just about all of you regarding your feelings with the dealers but unfortunately I feel we as the consumer are to blame as well.... Takes two to tango...and unfortunately an uneducated consumer will be taken advantage of. My advice which is exactly what MadMax did GET EDUCATED..and protect yourself...A lack of ethics and respect is prodominant and sickening today at many dealers. Yes there are some good ones out there but dam it sure seems rare.....

Guys we could go on and on about how much a item is sold for etc etc....but either we wise up or take the shaft.... It's our decision I dont think the dealers really care to help us.

ryeguy

10-28-2003, 09:56

I got tired of dealing with the sales droids. When I visited the Ford sales lot, for example, the guy didn't even know how to start the diesel. He hopped in the (brand new) truck and hit the starter. Of course it just spun over. He gave me a silly look and the key happened to be resting in the on position, then he tried it again, and it fired up (as expected, glow plugs...) He didn't even know about the double visors, and went on and on about this new-fangled U-joint invention... (really)

That was the worst I've encountered. But, to make a long story short, I enjoyed dealing with a local sales broker (http://www.discountcarsales.com/). All the #'s were out on the table. We built the truck from cost up, adding what he wanted ($250), what the dealer wanted for pre-delivery inspection, etc. And guess what, it was the price I wanted to pay that no dealer would apparently go near.

--Rob

Coghlin

10-28-2003, 12:10

I echo the dealing with the fleet managers. That is the way to go. No problem. I had the deal done without ever stepping on the lot. I showed up, signed some paperwork and gone. I even looked at a couple dealers just before I signed the bottom line and they would not touch the deal. You still get all the incentives without the bull****. I did the whole deal over the internet.

maDmax990

10-28-2003, 18:14

Hidee ho neighbors:

As HighTone and RyeGuy have said, you don't need much argument to prove that, now more than ever, knowledge is power.

Apparently my DNA coding is such that my brain just short-circuits when I see repetition of things that make no sense:

Exhibit A: dealerships continue to hire and turn over salesbots. You go back a year later and it's like the staff you worked with has been eliminated and there's a whole new generation of droids that you need to educate.

Exhibit B: people keep going to dealers, even though 99% of people I talk to absolutely hate the purchasing game. It's like lemmings to a cliff. They know they're screwed, but they do it anyway.

I do know one guy at work who absolutely loves buying cars. He sees messing with these guys as a sport, like some kind of fraternity hazing. But he seems to be a rare exception. One of his edges, however, is that he doesn't deal in specialty stuff like folks at this site are doing. If all you want is a 1500 longbed, there's a lot more room to be a complete arse and buy it for $50 over GM Supplier price, and leave the salesperson feeling like he got shanked.

This same guy did awesome at a Karrass negotiating course. Some people are just wired for it.

Thanks guys, this is all therapeutic. I think I feel better now. :D
Mat

bartman

10-29-2003, 19:48

You guys probably thought that I had bowed out and tucked my tail by now...just haven't had time to read the forum lately. I'm sorry that a lot of you feel like you have been screwed, manipulated or taken advantage of at a dealer. Look, I agree with a lot of the replies to my posts on this subject. I agree that for the best deal and the least amount of negotiations go see the fleet manager or internet department. I sold in our fleet department for 6 years before moving on to a management position (I get the funnest job in the dealership... I order all of the cars and trucks) and I enjoyed the low key sale just as much as my customers did. However, I also sold retail for 2 years, and I earned every red cent on commision, which means the more you make on a vehicle transaction, the more money you make. 1st off, there is nothing illegal or unethical about selling a car or truck for MSRP! The manufacturer put the price on the new vehicle...not the dealer. 2nd, we never force any ones hand in a deal; if an individual is un-comfortable with the deal they are getting, they have every right and chance to get up and walk away...and it's happened to me. 3rd, a good deal is in the mind of the buyer; if he or she feels like they got a good deal, then let it be...even if they paid MSRP! Listen, I thought dealers were scumbags before I got into the business too, so I know how a lot of you feel, because I've felt that way myself. I think if the tables turned, and some of you started selling, your attitudes would change. I know there are some "shady" dealers and transactions that go on, but I refuse to deal that way, because I want a customer for life. Even though I don't sell anymore, I have a lot of customers who come back to me because of the way I treated them. I turn them over to our fleet director because I know they will get the same treatment I gave them. I know there is a lot of turnover in the retail sales arena; it's the nature of our business. Thanks for listening (reading) to me. I wish you all could do business with me, but I know that's not possible. But since you can't, know that there ARE a lot of great dealers out there with great sales staffs and service departments that would love to earn your business for a lifetime. Also, remember, service departments and technicians aren't perfect and never will be. We make mistakes and mis-diagnose things occaisionaly, and this can create "heat" between the customer and service department. I think for the most part, though, we will strive to make things right. Again, thanks for buying cars and trucks from us, and especially GM products...particularly Duramax's! :D

DURA-MAX3

10-30-2003, 09:49

Bartman,

I understand what you are saying but it has nothing to do with what the dealer price is. They offered me 24,000 thousand for my truck and it kelly blue booked trade value almost 27,000. He was trying to screw me and that is the bottom line. If he really wanted to trade he would have offered what it is worth...

Albee

10-30-2003, 18:01

Hey Bartman, I have a couple of questions for you. This is off the topic at hand, Sorry, But I see you use Stanadyne and have put on larger tires. Is there a warranty issue with either one of these points? I use Stanadyne and put 285-75-16 tires on my DMax. I was told by a friend that if you put on a tire larger than a 265 it would void your warranty. And I have heard or read that the Use of a non alcohol content fuel additive is alright. What do you know for FACT? Appreciate your time.

bartman

10-30-2003, 19:27

Albee,
1) General Motors actually recommends only two fuel additives for the Duramax: Stanadyne and Racor. I choose Stanadyne Performance Formula based on a recommendation from our diesel technician and the results of an independent test I saw on the Stanadyne website. There are others out there that are just as good, but not actually recommended by GM. So no warranty concerns with using Stanadyne.

2)Going to a 285*75*16 tire should not present a warranty concern, however, I'm not going to say it couldn't. Just depends on your dealer's service department and their GM rep, and how each of them deal with oversize tires. I will let you know that we have a lot of customers with 285's and have no warranty issues with them. You might have to do some torsion adjustment and/or fender well trimming for potential rubbing when the suspension articulates, but other than that, I think you'll be OK. Maybe dmaxallitech can shed some light on this subject.

Albee

10-31-2003, 04:34

Thanks Bartman appreciate your input. I did have to trim the plastic in the driver side fender well some. No torsion adjustment though.

2K2AD

10-31-2003, 14:11

Listen, I thought dealers were scumbags before I got into the business too, so I know how a lot of you feel, because I've felt that way myself. I think if the tables turned, and some of you started selling, your attitudes would change. Bartman,

Isn't the point of customer service keeping me happy? I have to echo everything Mat said. If the only way I can feel good about a car buying transaction is to take a job as a salesman for a while, the nature of this business has to change. Maybe it is a bad experience on both sides of the transaction; if so, why continue to do it that way?

I am not criticizing you, just the nature of the car sales business. Most folks I know do not like the process of buying a new vehicle from a salesman on the lot. Many have replied in this thread that they prefer to deal with the Internet, fleet sales, etc... I believe this is because they are always second-guessing the deal they are making with an uneducated sales staff.

Thread after thread has been posted here by members wondering if they got a good deal and asking what others have paid. If these customers were truly satisfied with the deals they made, it wouldn't matter to them.

I feel the auto industry continues to maintain an antiquated means of selling their product because it benefits them most. Every new idea that I see advertised on the television is just some spin from this method. Not too long ago, I went to a local dealership that posts their 'no haggle price' on the windshield. I'll bet they spent tens of thousands of dollars on television advertising to get me on that lot. When I started looking at some of the prices it appeared that they were a bit high. I got tackled by a half dozen hungry salespeople and finally got serious with one. When I told him I would give him two thousand dollars less than his 'no haggle price' he graciously explained to me that the listed price was the lowest he could go. I told him,

bartman

10-31-2003, 20:01

Kevin, your points are well taken and thanks for expressing your views. I suppose that as long as there are cars and trucks to be purchased, and there are dealers to sell them that the "games" will continue. I don't like to play those games, and that's why I sold in the fleet department for so many years, but the bottom line is profit, and the retail floor is where that profit is made. Studies have shown that 85% of the buying public are still comfortable negotiating a car deal. It's a no win situation in many peoples minds...the public thinks they got scr*#d and the dealer thinks they left too much money on the table. We've tried the "N0-Haggle" price strategy and it doesn't work because people still want to haggle and people still want to feel they won in a car deal. Heck we've even thrown a $1 over invoice sale and people want to negotiate on that price...so what gives. I don't have all the answers and certainly will never say I do. All I know is that we, at my dealership, strive to earn everyones business by being honest and up-front, and even that's not enough sometimes. Thanks for listening.

2K2AD

11-01-2003, 05:27

Bartman,

Thanks for the reply. As much as I would like it to be so, I realize that I am not the majority of the buying public. I also do not doubt that millions of dollars have been poured into studies that would indicate the best way to sell cars is the status quo. I just get frustrated with the whole experience and am glad that there are more alternatives for folks like me each passing day. Until then, this is what I will look for when I buy:

All I know is that we, at my dealership, strive to earn everyones business by being honest and up-front, and even that's not enough sometimes. Thanks for listening.
Thank you for listening.

Kevin

TXDMAX

11-01-2003, 08:16

DURA-MAX3

See my sig almost same truck and i'm in the same boat would have liked to get an 03 but can't justify it. I also work at a dealer and am at the same frustration level as everyone else about trade in values on anything. We have alot of GM employees buy vehicles from us, these are 20+ yr employees and do have some influenece on the incentives that are going on and even they are complaining about the trade in values. I keep telling them that they are causing the problem. I know you have to keep factories open to make a profit and the economics that go with sales.

Lets take a look at your situation. Did you negotiate after the dealer told you 24k? If that was as high as he would go it might be right on. When you can get 10k off msrp (depending on when you buy it? A truck like yours if msrp was 45 then you can probably but it for 36-37, and get new car financing rates. If the dealer gives you 24k then add $500 for avg reconditioning costs and wants to make $1500-$2000 on it when he resells it then he has a starting price on the lot of $28500-29500. This leaves him some negotiating room so it can be a win-win situation. I think thats a lot of money for a 3yr old truck w/ 31k miles almost being out of the factory 3/36. These are excellent trucks and sell well on the used market. It is a perfect vehicle to sell yourself. I know its a pain in the ass but being in Texas there is no better market for a diesel pick-up.

I talked to our used car director he said that he would give between 23-24 on your truck so now at least you have 2 opinions on the value. I will tell you that a crew-cab would probably another 2k, they are more in demand. I have also noticed that Fords are holding their value extremely well. A good friend of mine just traded his 4x4 CC Lariat w/ ranchhands last month w/ 68k miles and we gave him 22500 ( go figure) sold it last week for 24900.

Bottom line is if you're not in a hurry put it in the Houston paper or truck trader for 27-28 and it should go pretty quick.

P.S. I am the commercial and fleet finance director for one of the largest Chevy stores in the country. We are not owned by one of the large corporations. The best advice I can give on buying a vehicle is buy from a family owned store and find a salesperson you like and trust (allright impossible for some of you), someone that has been there a while. I work for a dept where the top guy has been selling Chevys for 24 yrs at 2 stores just moved to a new dealership in Feb. He has an incredible repeat and referral business because he is honest and fair. Doesn't always give the lowest prices but makes the process easy and enjoyable, also runs almost a 100% customer satisfaction score.

flhrciblueice

11-08-2003, 12:41

Originally posted by EWC:
Last month I wanted to trade for a used 2002 Duramax CC dually . I loaded up my 96 HD Bad Boy , 96 Buell S1 Lightning , 88 Chevy Sportside and my 95 2500 6.5 Silverado to see what I could get for them . Dealer offered me $14,000 for the whole package . Needless to say , they are still in the driveway . I don't have a problem with the dealers making a profit but when you add all the incentives and the holdback , that they get at the end of the year , you will have a hard time telling me the dealers are just scrapping by . EWC,
I'm not trying to change the subject, but you need to keep that Bad Boy. It is rapidly becoming a collector's item. If you do decide to get rid of it, sell it to an individual as it should bring AT LEAST 14k. I wish I had never sold mine, but it did bring a nice price.

Kc5khr

11-21-2003, 13:33

It is sad to hear about so many people being taken to the cleaners on new vehicles. I guess I'm lucky to have a good dealer in my area.
Sometimes the online auto price sites, like NADA, Kelly and Edmunds, are not taking into account the incentives on used vehicles. This causes some people to get thier feelings hurt on trade-ins.
For example, the truck I bought a few months ago, had a MSRP of $45,000. Invoice was about $39,300 and there were $5500 worth of rebates. My dealer sells for $200 over invoice, which made my purchase price around $34,000. If you look up my truck at Edmunds (which I find to be more conservative), depreciated trade is 30500, private party is 32000, retail is 35800 and certified used value is 36400. So by using thier numbers my truck may be worth more than I paid. In reality the truck would probably sell for somewhere in between the trade and private party.
Two of the dealers that I drive by on the way to my dealer claim to match anyones price. I have found this to be false advertising. One will match the sales price and then add "Advertising cost, Inventory tax, Documentation fee, Processing etc..., which usually adds $1000-1500 back to the total cost. My dealer did search a 500 mile radius to get the truck I wanted and I did have to pay an additional $75.00 to have some go get it. This is a small price to pay.
In reference to making a profit: The dealer I use makes a COMFORTABLE living as do the employees there. It is worth the 40 minute drive for me to not have to haggle over the price.

GMC Dealer

11-22-2003, 17:37

I've been selling trucks for three years now and I'd like to share some things I've learned along the way.

Some people will not be happy with any deal they get. They think they are getting "screwed" no matter what they paid.

Some people like to haggle. Even if you give them the lowest price possible, they still grind.

Under trained sales people will always be around. Have you ever been to a hardware store and had to deal with the "new guy"?

If any of you have ever had to deal with the general public you know how difficult it can be. You are talking about the second biggest purchase people make in their lives. Most people are scared of car salesmen, it is very difficult to gain trust. If a salesman told you that the price he was giving you was 100 over invoice would you believe him if he hadn't gained your trust?

The world is full of unscrupulous people in all types of business, not just car dealers, just open the newspaper and look in the business section at all the latest scandals.

Find a salesman who is knowledge and trustworthy, there are plenty of us out there, ask around. When one of my customers refers a person to me, it makes everything so much easier, for both of us. I want referrals,so I treat my customers right. Maybe there should be a referral section on The Diesel Page.

I have a motto: You can skin a sheep and make ONE nice jacket OR you can sheer that sheep many times and make lots of sweaters. In other words, if you give some one a good deal and treat them right, they will come back to you many times and you will have a customer for life.

And by the way don't be sad that people are being taken to the cleaners. I get taken to the cleaners all the time; at restaurants, espressos at Peet's coffee, the corner grocery store next door to my house. I choose to pay more because I feel that I am getting a good value. I shop at the corner store because I like the people and it's more convenient. You can always pay less for something. Cost and value very different.

sonofagun

11-22-2003, 19:19

GMC Dealer, Bartman and TXDMAX are the kind of guys I deal with on every GMC truck I have ever bought (6). I deal with the fleet manager and always have. He still makes a profit for the dealer and himself but I get a good deal (generally $200 - $300 over.)

I met the service manager when I bought my first truck. He is still there and we are good friends. He always greets me when he sees me, first name basis. I do little service work at the dealer as I do most of it myself. I ask the service manager who his best service writer is and work with him for appointments. If it's a big issue I copy the tsb or other stuff from this page and give it to the service manager to give to the tech who does the work I also leave one on the console. I do not trust the service writer to get the message to the tech. They come and go too often for me to get to know them.

I negotiate a parts price discount when I buy my trucks. It isn't as good as gmpartsdirect and others but when you add in the shipping it gets close. I fussed about the lack of body side moldings on my new '04 3500 (got a door ding first week) and got them from my dealer for $10 less the GMpartsdirect.

I recently got a GM extended warranty from TXDMAX. My dealer was not willing to meet his price (I didn't actually ask them -- because Blake had posted his offer on this page -- but a friend of mine did). I consider myself a relatively savvy buyer but I deal with honest folks. They deserve to make a living and I don't mind helping them do it. They also deserve to be credited for the good work they do. I have never felt poorly served by these guys. I have met a few folks at dealerships that I wouln't work with because they didn't measure up. I have even met a few general managers at dealerships I didn't like. Same with doctors and dentists.

I don't buy aftermarket parts for my truck from my dealer because they are overpriced as stated here. Those that chose to pay for them are too uninformed to know better (that's unfortunate) or too lazy to do the shopping required to find the best deals.

I have dealer traded a few cars but not for years. I take good care of my rigs and generally get the same price the dealer would get in a resale or a bit better. It takes time and effort. The Autotrader.com does wonders.

I can't help but feel that those who get gored are usually the ones who sound off the loudest. I don't mean to offend anyone here but my dealer would never fit the definition of "stealer". It seems obvious to me that those I mentioned above don't either. Spend some time setting up your support system, it works better.

We often tend to lump everything together and I see that as a flaw that we should work to correct.
Each of us does something for a living that someone else can find fault with. That doesn't mean we are to be counted among the bad guys.

My 2c,

Bob