How Much for the JUICE $$$ [Archive] - TheDieselPage.com Forums

More Power

06-26-2002, 14:02

As usual, some of you miss the point....

Not allowing "group purchases", panhandling and outright commercialization is for a good reason.

First, I'd like to say that most people who gripe about DP policies are simply "visitors" here in this forum. They choose not to support this forum, for whatever reason. Subscribing members who do support the web site and forum, realize that there is an investment, both their own and the DP's.

Something to ponder - Without subscribing members, the web site would not exist. Without forum advertisers, this forum would not exist.

By being sneaky about group purchases or panhandling, you're hurting the people who help make this BB forum possible.

By being sneaky about group purchases or panhandling, you're helping yourself and a couple other people without regard to this web site, the bulletin board or the thousands of others who spend time here. There is a much larger picture.

Anyone who wants to sell diesel related products can advertise here in this BB. We'll offer you a sweet deal on a banner ad, and you can interact in forum threads like the other advertisers do. Doing this helps you (sell product - make money), helps all those interested in those products (more competition - lower prices), and your ad would help support the forum. (Did I leave anyone out?)

For all the visitors here, we've heard the "helping other people" argument often enough to know that helping make the forum possible usually isn't included in the "helping" part. Why is that?

MP

[ 06-27-2002: Message edited by: More Power ]

pepperidge

06-26-2002, 16:39

Okay,

As far as this topic goes, I can't help them out with prices on the juice cause I have not found a price that seems fair enough.

MP I don't know your home life but I'll assume your married and like your wife you like to save money. Would you be mad if she paid $5 a pound for $3 a pound ground beef? Or would she be mad if you paid $900 for a remington model 700 bdl synthetic stock w/stainless barrel in .300 WinMag that you could have got for $700. Did you pay full sticker for your truck because the dealer had to advertise? GM dealers have a 13-15% profit margin (over invoice + a 3% hold back which only the dealership gets. so we wont include that)
Thats actually pretty fair compared to say $759-$799(26-33% markup) DP advertisers are asking for the juice.
The box cost is at or below $600. Now add 15% = $690
That's at 15% which I hope you didn't pay that kind of markup on your truck. I paid $150 over invoice on $41,000 msrp truck ($36,100)not even a 2 % markup 5% if you count the holdback.

Man I'm not trying to beat a dead horse by any means, I just want a fair price and so do a lot of others.. Shouldn't advertisers have to compete with the rest of the companies out there i.e. not just be the only one allowed to sell at any price on the forum. that's kinda like a monopoly. I would pay a 15-20% markup for a juice box though.
Any DP advertisers want to take me up on that?

You will have my membership money by today's close of business. I will support TDP in this way, But will still try to save money any other way I can!

MP Thanks for listening.

p.s. you never did respond to my e-mail and thats why this issue has been sore with me and recurring. I will consider this your response and I will try to say no more about price arguments.

mackin

06-26-2002, 17:19

pepperidge,

Man I totally agree,who wouldn't ??????.........I wish it were that way but, I will support the management policy making decisions.........I totally understand why, doesn't mean I have to like it, but I respect it ........

To the others,

I agree with MP about ...........

(MY interpretation)
Whether or not you patronize the advertisers everyone should support this outstanding BB ... The wrath of info is well worth the mear $15 dollar ish a year paying supporting member status ........ So anti up ..........

MAC
smile.gif

[ 06-27-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]

tmg115

06-26-2002, 17:20

for all of you who want a cheap juice box!!! do what i do. you are not going to get anything from the board so i just got my good ol phone book out and started calling. and long and behold i found one at a good price that was local. so just take your phone book out and start looking.

pinehill

06-26-2002, 18:20

I don't blame anyone for wanting to pay as little as possible for the product he wants. I DO blame anyone who hasn't enough sense to realize that the administrator/owner of this DP enterprise soon won't have the advertisers required to make it a worthwhile effort if he allows casual, free advertising for competitors. Use other means to find alternatives, if you must.

And for any REGULAR users of this board who continue, month after month, to take advantage of all the great info available here, and can't bring themselves to part with the few $ required for membership, I can't think of any other term than freeloader.

tmg115

06-26-2002, 18:31

hey i am cheap what else can i say :D if it makes you feel better i just use the forum i don't read the artical since i don't pay i just don't feel right doing it. smile.gif

FirstDiesel

06-26-2002, 18:38

As a relatively new member here I have been reading this thread with interest. I am a long time member of another list that is sportscar related. Sponsors for the forums are important and users of the forums need to patronize them to show their gratitude. It should be expected that these sponsors do not always offer the lowest prices but most times they will be offering better support than the "discount" vendor. In addition the are paying to support the forum so you should expect to be paying a little more for this "service" also. That said there is a fair profit and there is taking advantage. If a vendor can sell a product for $600 dollars and make a profit why should a supporting vendor expect that he can sell the same thing for 700 or 750 and not have people comment about it.

I do understand that MP has to offer his sponsors something for their money but users need to be allowed to let each other know what the going rate for an item is elsewhere. Then it's their choice to support a forum vendor or go with the discount guy. If enough go to the discount guy maybe the forum vendor needs to reevaluate his pricing structures.

I for one have ALWAYS been will be pay a FAIR markup to support a forum vendor on my other list and will follow that policy here too.

BTW, I am a paying member of this list and also feel like pinehill. Shame on those of you that use the list and don't support it.

gardnerteam

06-26-2002, 21:09

A couple of observations and comments:
First, I seriously doubt there is anyone who uses this page with any regularity that can honestly say the information provided here through the efforts of the moderators, sponsors, members, and visitors is not worth many times the cost of membership. Most of us join, but there are always a few that are cheap with everything they do and won't contribute - they usually do the same with their family and their community. Big deal - it's a free country and there are a lot of freeloaders in it. That isn't going to change.
Secondly, I understand the moderators and sponsors position, but would like to suggest they might be better off letting anyone who wants to post a cheap price or low price on an item do it, and let those who want to buy from they do it. I learned along time ago as a auto parts wholesaler/retailer with a 11 store operation that I did not want to be the cheapest nor did I care if someone else undersold me, as long as my stores gave the best service, and took care of the customer, NO MATTER WHAT! Go ahead, buy a Juice from some retailer for $600 or whatever. Just pray he is going to be around to service you when it goes bad, doesn't work correctly, needs updated, etc. Better yet, pray he cares about your one shot business - most don't. For most items, it pays to have a quality merchant who cares about solving your problems NO MATTER WHAT! And guess what, by the time he takes care of your problem, makes you happy, follows through, etc., he has made far less net profit on the sale than the guy who sold you cheap and left you high and dry. As a merchant I knew that, and I learned it again when a Les Schwab (300+ tire stores in the West) employee forgot to torque my lug nuts on my 2002 GMC and 11,000 miles later I tossed the left rear tire 100 miles south of Puerto Vallarta Mexico. My Mexican insurance paid $5,000 in parts and repairs, but Schwab stepped up and paid WITHOUT ANY HASSLE FROM ME my deductable, my living for 2.5 weeks in PV (life is hard), my towbill, and gave me 4 new Weld wheels as the others had been scratched by other lugs coming off. No hassle - just great service and followup from a honest, but stupid mistake. I doubt if Cheapies Tire and Retreads would have even tried. You get what you pay for. Great service doesn't cost - it pays.

Joe Pool

06-26-2002, 21:16

Hey guys & gals remember that price isn't everything. You should also consider service after the sale. That is why I usually support smaller vendors that I can actually get to know and trust. Just some food for thought.

Regards, Joe

[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: Joe Pool ]

6600 Duramax

06-27-2002, 11:31

I thinks it all goes back to what Dad use to say "You get what you pay for" I am guilty as most for looking for a deal sometimes, but with all the contributors and helpful people here at this site it is definatly worth what ever price they are asking cause you know they wont leave you high and dry as some do.

Hey JOE POOL, I see another St. Louis guy, where abouts?

Joe Pool

06-27-2002, 12:00

6600 Duramax,

I'm in Brentwood, midtown area. :cool:

Joe

01_Duramax_Dually

06-27-2002, 15:10

Wow,
This is an interesting, very POLITICAL topic. I feel like the majority I suppose and am always looking for an opportunity to save money when applicable. Why not. I buy a lot of Race car components. I have this limit where as I will buy from local suppliers if they can stay within 10-15% of what I can get something from Summit, Jegs or Jerry Bickel. Why pay $100 for something when you can get it for $25? Unless you have disposable income to toss around those folks better get competitive or lose business. It is called "Free Enterprise". I remember not to long ago the GM oil filter price junk, and then the fuel filter and so on....Why should the "Juice" be any different?

I am not sure how the "AFTER THE SALE" comment applies on this since you "Juice" box purchasers are buying from distributors. They ultimately will tell you "send it back then they in return send it back. Those distributors are not getting the box and repackaging it.

Now I am going go out on a limb here and put my bullet proof vest on and state that I am not a paying member TDP. I do not join in as a paying member as I feel as if I am paying to read and post in a forum. Yes I have gotten lots of excellent information from the page. Yes I think this is the best site on the internet but I still only read and post in the forum. I support the page by sending others to it that probably have become paying members. I also support it by assisting with technical support if what a person is asking I have gone though and can offer input.

Jim Bigley (MP) has the page separated accordingly and I cannot access certain things that only members can. I am fine with that and think that is an excellent method. I did that when I was President of a car club that had 187 paying members and probably 3000 viewers. The webpage for the club is still very active to this day and is free for anyone to post on it at no charge. Ultimately it benefits everyone.

I do, however, resent the fact that if you do not "Ante up" your are possibly seen as a "Freeloader". I am not free loading. I am not getting anything other than some information and making some new internet Duramax friends. I, as many of you all do, frequent other pages, are you all members of those as well?

This is a great page and whether you pay or not, if you bring something to the table(monetary or not) that helps all, then you are contributing and that brings more people as word of mouth is the best advertising available.

Carry On.....(ducking now).... :D

6600 Duramax

06-27-2002, 16:04

Joe Pool

I am in Crestwood next to Grants Farm but I drive to the Airport everyday and go through Brentwood.

If you get the juice let me know, I would like to FEEL it up close and personel. :D

mackin

06-27-2002, 16:36

01_Duramax_Dually,

DUCK ............

I totally understand your point of view as others but, if without funding this site could not exist, whether through members or advertisers ....... This is not a government sponsored site, nor a charity organization ...... :rolleyes:
I feel it is a give and take situation . If you care for it to be here, and I'm sure you gain a lot as I have, for a mear $15.95 annual dues, why not be a PAYING member ........ I am a member of other FREE sites, and the adage of you get what you DON'T pay for comes to mind, most of the time the free sites are like ghost towns ...... They have no where the info, or posters, as here on the D-MAX BB....... It's us PAYING members that keep it going and attract a terrific bunch of PEOPLE knowledgeable all around ......Plus the advertisers of course......This is a quality site and I will support it by continuing my membership .......

If it were a pay to post site, would you pay then ?????? I'll bet you would ........

I'm not flaming you, I just think people should support the site that's all ....... Is not $16 bucks worth it ?????? Hell I've saved that much in OIL FILTERS, FUEL FILTERS, TRANNY FILTERS ........ Over and over again .........From the info here.......Join you'll be glad you did ..........No regrets ........ HERE .......I personally don't agree with the freeloader clause , but I've been called worse things .........One could always say if the shoe fits ????????? LOL

MAC smile.gif

[ 06-27-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]

tmg115

06-27-2002, 16:42

alright i have 2 questions. how do free sites like pickuptruck.com and fordtruckworld.com stay open with out money? i have always wondered that.

and 2nd isn't all this talk about the juice kinda like asking were the cheapest place to buy the juice is? i mean, edge is not a sponser (or at least i havn;t seen there banner) so isn't that unfare to BD and duramaximizer who are paying sponsers?

just some random thoughts. :D

mackin

06-27-2002, 17:19

tmg115,

Advertisement .......... Corporate sponsorship perhaps?????

I agree we should be able to openly discuss price as I've stated in the past, but the (management) feel it's not fare to there banner guys .......Where's the happy middle ground ??????
Perhaps a separate pricing, as mentioned before, for PAYING members ..........

Everyone else is welcome to advertise, if they want to pay , I guess ......... Edge is represented second hand ......... With the EZAMP ........ Plus JK sells THE JUICE ........ Hey I just stating my views . I like the site so I don't mind paying the DUES ........ If not for this BB, I surely wouldn't have know a lot about some certain info ....... There is ties to the internal big cog here ....... Where else could you find, and get info like you have obtained ...... The links to web pages, the trial and errors people share ....... The "free" sites are a mixed bag of info .......This is all D-MAX, ALL THE TIME ....... Wean out the politics that have to happen, and ENJOY ....... Pay if you like ....... It's not like I'll get a commission ..... ;)

Look at it like all the people who BI**H about how our GOVERNMENT at all levels are chewing up our hard earned money ,at record pace ....... AND THEY DON'T EVEN VOTE .... They think it doesn't matter . Let someone else do it .......

All this info is free ........ Why should I pay, it won't matter .......

MAC

smile.gif

[ 06-27-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]

tmg115

06-27-2002, 19:27

i for one really like this site. it is full of good info with very little BS. theres somethings i like and somethings i don't but that is with everything. but over all this is a good site that i am happy with.

FirstDiesel

06-27-2002, 19:34

Best part must be you get to use it for free while some of us pay the bill, right??

tmg115

06-27-2002, 20:34

gentelmen i am tossing in my hat on this fight. this is getting to dirty for me. so i am going to walk away on this and leave it at this: I am sorry for bringing it up.

again i am sorry for bringing it up and dividing the people here. I am Sorry.

stretch

06-28-2002, 04:23

One more view point :
I really enjoy this site and it has saved me a ton of money when I needed info about a problem, therefore I feel the membership dues is money well spent. I also do not expect anything for nothing from anybody. I will not go and call people who use this site without paying freeloaders but I will say if you like it, why not support it.
As for price shopping, yeah - it sucks but MP has to have something to offer his paid advertisers. Also, I'd prefer to deal with a reputable dealer who has EARNED a good rep. not a fly by night operation out for a quick score with out future product support or knowledge.

pepperidge

06-28-2002, 09:07

Has anyone here bought the juice from a panhandler
and not gotten any product support? Please post this information as I would be interested in knowing if this is the reality. Also post if you have gotten good product support from a panhandler (please, no names of the panhandlers as this would be against TDP policy) OBTW edge does back up their product 100% so you can't you them.
This should help everyone understand a little more...

madmax7

06-28-2002, 11:56

Why is it if someone doesn't advertise here, suddenly they are labeled "pan handler" or "fly by night". Does paying for a banner ensure an ethical and long term business??
If so, thats some powerful advertising!! :D

zip

06-28-2002, 12:46

To Gardnerteam and Stretch--
Thanks for the posts. They were 1st rate and worth every penny I spent as a paying member. Sometimes a person has to pay a few dues in life to understand the free enterprize system.
zip.

01_Duramax_Dually

06-28-2002, 14:35

OK OK, I am like the other Fella, I am throwing in the towel also on this subject...I will abide by all rules set forth while visiting the page.
Excellent topic though. I like these discussions. Think about it, Even this board is a portion of 'Free Enterprise"

Carry On..... :D

Thanks Mackin, your points are very well taken...and I did "Duck" as requested...LOL...HAHAHAHAHAHA

stretch

06-29-2002, 06:37

quote by Madmax7
"Why is it if someone doesn't advertise here, suddenly they are labeled "pan handler" or "fly by night". Does paying for a banner ensure an ethical and long term business??"

To clarify what I mean :
I would prefer to deal with a company like Kennedy Diesel, BD,Greg Landuyt, etc. because they get personally involved with the products that they sell and potentially have real life experience answers for questions you may have. On the otherhand, there are companys that just get dealer status from a volume purchase but don't get invloved with the products they sell. I'm sure you can call Edge products and order 100 modules for a Powerstroke and they will cut you a good deal. I assume you do not own a Powerstroke. Now you can go and sell these out of your home with little to no overhead and undercut the competition. Now one of your customers has a question about the way the module reacts with his/her truck, what kind of answers will you have. Now the customer has to either go to another dealer for advise or to the manufacturer which at least with Edge, they have product support but not all manufcturers do that and refer you to a dealer.
I'm not saying that other sellers who don't advertise here are pan-handlers or fly by nights, but how do I know if they are knowledgable dealers ? At least with this forum, I have an idea of what these guys are about. I like having a good relationship with a dealer that is knowledgable, it can prove invaluable when you have future issues. smile.gif

DMAX_Phil

06-30-2002, 22:43

I think this type of censorship is outrageous. I am a member of many forums (Chevy, Harley, boats, etc.) and one of the best utilities of these forums is trading information - all information in an uncensored forum.

Does this mean that if I have problems with one of the DP advertisers, I can't share this information with the rest of the forum? Would this type of feedback be censored? I was not aware that this forum was being censored in this fashion and I don't like it. I just received my renewel request for the DP membership. I am going to have to chew on this a little longer before I re-up.

Censorship should be limited to vulgar and obscene posts only. The advertisers on this page should be able to hold their own with us users sharing information openly. I would love to know when sales are going on somewhere other than the advertisers on this page.

This whole censorship may have the inverse of the desired effect. Since we can't share this information, we will be forced to do our own research elsewhere and may choose someone other than the advertsisers here (even if the price is the same). On the other hand, if I had confirmation from other users that they found their lowest prices with one of the advertisers, I may not go off and talk to other sellers.

Phil

FirstDiesel

07-01-2002, 04:21

Hey Phil

Who said censorship?? What I'm reading is posting low ball pricing from non DP vendors is frowned upon. I can understand this. I don't believe that if there is a problem with a DP vendor posting a civil post about it would censored.

hoot

07-01-2002, 05:33

Lot's of people on here spend an awful lot of time on the computer helping and explaining things about whatever on this site. We are regular contributors.

Lot's of people get on this board to recieve this information. They are regular recievers.

I do both as do many. I also enjoy the members only articles and info.

With all due respect, this site deserves the miniscule $15.95 membership fee from anyone that decides to make it a regular habit.

I believe the reason the forum is open to non-paying visitors is to generate traffic, interest and new paid members so the management can make some sort of living off his hard work.

The other "free" forums mentioned are your other option but you won't beat this one with respect to GM diesel know-how. The other sites have few experts and answers to technical diesel questions are few and far between.

I went through a stage a while back where I got upset about specific things about the way this site is run. These sites are an awful lot of work to maintain and keep up to date. Just think if it didn't exist and you had to start it.

Thanks More Power for keeping it going and putting up with us!

[ 07-01-2002: Message edited by: hoot ]

01_Duramax_Dually

07-01-2002, 08:01

OK..Last post.
I guess I feel like we are saddled into hearing only from DP paid advertisers and not the open market. I agree with Dmax_Phil. If someone out there has found a business that is selling a product that a "Paid advertiser" is selling and it is less money and the service offered is the same, I want to hear about it. That's what will make this page an invaluable tool. If not, we all live in a envelope.

Again we go back to free enterprise, If someone can sell it cheaper than another business, they need to step up and match prices or potentially lose business. It really is as simple as that! A year and half agao when the stock market was fat, people had some disposable income to throw at their hobbies, however things are different nowadays. Now pennies need to be watched. Out here in California we are forced to buy out of state to avoid paying 8.25% tax on everything.

That's it..Finished....Carry On... :D

gardnerteam

07-01-2002, 08:07

Other than frowning on the lowball pricing concept (which I understand, but disagree with), I find little if any censorship here. Several individuals have taken shots at various contributing vendors at various times in the past, sometimes with responses, sometimes not. More often than not, other contributors have instantly come to the defense of the vendor without the vendor responding. Greg (and others)has been jumped on many times, but usually responds with information and logic. Censorship is a action word used to create negative emotion. The moderators of this page go a long way to let some of the contributors play in the sandbox, toss sand, and act out their frustrations of the moment. Agreed, they have a stated policy which some of us loathe and others of us dislike, but every government, business, and family has policies we don't like, but we work within the guidelines and live and let live. (Personally, I think Nevada should go back to no speed limits - I loved driving 150+ in 1974 in a 934 Porsche and passing a state cop near Tonapah legally). If you want to try to change the policy, start a contributor poll to tell the moderators your opinion and why. They might not change their policy, but they will listen. More important, the advertisers might listen and find it more embarassing to continue the policy than to drop it and let free trade take over. (My opinion is free trade ALWAYS wins out in the end for all parties). Just don't cry censorship when you don't like something. This is a positive page with a lot of positive information and assistance for D/P owners and anyone else who wants to use it for positive purposes. If you want to revert to the sandbox and throw sand, do it somewhere else please.

hoot

07-01-2002, 08:10

You can relay all the price info you want through private e-mails. What's the big deal?

What goes on outside of this site is no ones business.

pepperidge

07-01-2002, 14:10

Speaking of Sandboxes for analogies
The no outside pricing policy is more like a cat in a sandbox ( covering up the... ) :D :D :D roflmao

mackin

07-01-2002, 17:07

CRAP ..........

========>"MEOW"<==========

MAC tongue.gif :D tongue.gif

Censorship is what it is, like it or not, well just have to deal with it ...... Lets face it if something is not sold by the advertisers here ....... Price WARS are fair game...... No one worries about bug shield, bed covers, floor matts, lift kits, shocks, door handles, tires, etc,etc, etc. ...... "PANHANDLERS" ........So who's interest is really at play......

MAC :D

I still believe it's worth the annual dues despite that one flaw........ After all it takes $ to keep it going .......

Hey Skinny did you get the "JUICE" yet ..... Where ? LOL How much? LMFAO

[ 07-01-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]

Skinny Blinky

07-01-2002, 17:28

No juice yet...Need to save for the seeing eye dog first, and I think I'll hit up the local soup kitchen for a can so it will make "PANHANDLE" a little easier!!! What a sore subject.
:D

pepperidge

07-05-2002, 10:24

Any takers on the SERVICE AFTER THE SALE by "all" dealers of the juice. I'd like to know what "everyone" is experiencing on reprograms as well as failures.

Thanks,

GMC-2002-Dmax

07-05-2002, 19:02

I have only a few comments to make about dealers vs. panhandlers.

If someone is a dealer and we'll say advertiser on the diesel page and is willing to go out, invest in whatever the minimum unit purchase required to become a dealer is, then learn about the product and service it whether it be technical expertise, replacement for defects or anything else related to customer service then they deserve to make a profit.

If someone wants to do the same and they don't advertise on this web sight, they do however follow through with all of the above mentioned things then they are just as good to buy from as anyone here.

I would caution everyone that you might be more inclined to buy from someone with the word of mouth reputation on this web page in these forums as they have probably demonstrated that they will follow through with all those important customer service needs should they arise.

In my 15 years experience in my trade I know that if you do business with good people you will get what you want when you need it most. Dealing with a fly by night and you'll get a message that sounds like this " I'm sorry the number you have reached is no longer in service ".

I choose to pay a little more if I have too to get the service and follow up support I would give myself to my customers. i will choose to support the advertisers on this forum if I can. i know that most will go out of their way to help you, it's the way they do business.

JMHO and my $.02 cents worth!!!

GMC smile.gif