"Black ice" observation

[markrinker]

This has little to do with diesel, but wanted to take an informal survey.

Am I the only one to notice this - that anyone that ever wrecked due to slippery conditions blames "black ice" as the cause???

In my book, ice is ice and Minnesota has plenty of it. "Black Ice" must be some mythical spooky stuff that makes cars wreck...

[chickenhunterbob]

Black Ice is real

Two weeks I was driving south on I-29 through your country and a red Ford F-150 with a fifth wheel jacknifed in front of me, I managed to stay on the road, (so did he) it was no fun though. This was alongside a long shelterbelt sort of bush on the west side of the road.

Long story short, my interpretation of "Black ice" (a common term here) is ice on the road that you can't see. The road looks dry, but a thin layer of ice exists to fool you, usually caused by frost emerging, but can also caused by snow drifting, as I suspect was the case in North Dakota.

Where I live, we have about 120 frost free days a year, so this is quite common.

Cruise control is the worst enemy. If you hit back ice with the cruise on, especialy into a wind, hang on baby, you goin for a ride...

Bob

[BobND]

I'm 47, and have lived all my life in ND. I always thought of "black ice" as a myth until about 3 years ago. After a 220 mile drive without a hint of ice or slippery conditions, I hit a patch of black ice on a curve near home, just as a gust of wind hit me. It was the scariest ride of my life so far, and there was no visible ice, or noticeable change in the appearance of the road. I'm now a believer in "black ice".

[steve-r]

black ice is common here, especially on the north side of vancouver near the mountains in the morning. early morning shade from trees, mtns and frost make "black ice" . you can't see it, looks just like black asphalt, but when you hit it, hold on, cuz you literally have no control of your vehicle. the worst is on a downhill slope..just like a sled out of control and gravity takes over.

[Marty Lau]

I hit black ice just before Christmass in Central Utah on I-15. I hit the ramp hit the breaks hard to see if the road was dry and it was went about 3 miles and Katty BAR the door I started fishtailing and had a semi ahead that was really slow I regained directonal control but bearly got the truck slowed up enough to keep from rear ending the Semi. There was a large number of drivers that was not so lucky, many vehical off the road several crashed into each other. This was all in a 4-5 mile streach. Yes Mark black ice does exist and this was only my latest adventure with it.

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

Mark: Are you a transplant from another state? :D You're the 1st Minnesotan I've talked to (so to speak) that didn't know what black ice was.

Be careful - like you've read above, it'll get ya.

In my experience, if you are REALLY careful about looking for black ice, mostly you can see it, or be aware conditions are right for it. I know I've noticed it many times over the years. On the other hand, I've probably been lucky enough to have cruised over black ice, blissfully unaware it was there - maybe my horror story is next. :eek:

Blessings! (& safe travels)

Brian Johnson, # 5044

[Cowracer]

I was on my way to work one cold yet dry morning and noticed on a gentle curve up ahead 3 cars practically on top of each other in the outside ditch with a group of people milling around.

I wondered vaguely who screwed up and caused the wreck, when the back end of my truck stepped out on the black ice that wrecked the previous cars.

Only years of short-track dirt racing let me instatly catch the slide and add power to keep from looping it all the way out from underneath me. This was done without concious thought or decision. I passed the startled (and scattering) group of people at about a full turn of steering lock and with the old 6.5 bellowing like a bull.

When I had things under control I parked (out of the way) and went back to check on the other drivers, there was already another car in the ditch and one more slid in while I was walking up. I moved my truck down ahead of the ice and parked in the traffic lane with the flasher on.

I could not walk up the gentle hill to the other people! The ice was that slippery and only visible because I was looking for it.

Yes! Black-ice IS real.

Tim

[Wheat Whacker]

Yes black ice is real we had some just a week or two ago. I was pulling out onto the highway from our gravel road and noticed the road was not frosty(as it should have been being the temp it was) and looked normal so I was suspicious I got out on the highway and jammed on the brakes and found the road to be glare ice and the road looked absoulety perfect. And there was a nice young college student just down the road in the ditch because she had slammed on the brakes to avoid some deer and she didn't know it was icy out. So yes I believe it is there just hope you can spot it before it spots you.

[markrinker]

Aw c'mon guys. Admit it - you just can't drive on ice. Black ice...LOL

[G. Gearloose]

If there is someone in front of me, I find their red taillights reflecting suspiciously off the pavement a good indicator of the black-ice condition. Its subtle but quite repeatible. when I see it I usually goose the throttle and if it breaks away, "yup, ice..."

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

Mark Rinker said, [i]

[Dimsdale]

Oh it is most definitely real. Around here, it manifests itself either after a brief melt or a dew/freezing rain situation and the ground is frozen. There is also the nasty freezing fog, but that is another topic.

Usually, the road looks wet, but there is not "tire spash" noise as you would get on a really wet road. There is usually a lack of roadspray from cars ahead of you. Usually, the road is eerily quiet, probably from the total lack of friction!

If there is sand to the side of the road (from the sanding trucks, but has been pushed aside from traffic etc.), I have found that putting two wheels in that sand makes a world of difference. Drove 15 miles home that way when semis were doing jacknives and other cars were spinning around.

You take your traction where you can get it!

[Beedee]

Its a very real problem in my part of the world, the roads around here are wet most of the year.All it take is to snap down to the freeze temp and round and round you go. I was coming home from down island a couple of years ago, about this time of year, about 10:00 at night. Came around a corner and saw a cop car in the ditch. Thought it was pretty funny until a couple of kilometers later when came across the accident he was heading to. I slowed down to about 50 Km (speed limit 110 Kmh). In a 200 kilometer strech of road there were 5 cars and 2 transports in the ditch. The road just looked like a regular wet road, couldn't tell where the ice was until the slip started. You just can't tell sometimes until its too late.
Moral of the story: Slow down, Drive defensive and have good tires ;) PS I don't use studded tires, they just give you a false sense of security.
Brian

[Rollie Raper]

I don't think the point is that "black ice" is any more slippery then regualar ice. It is just that it is more dangerous because it exists when other conditions around suggest that it shouldn't be there.

I assume we all drive more careful when it is obviously slippery and icy out there.

I think the real problem is we are typically driving faster and less aware thinking the road is bare, and then all of a sudden we hit the ice unexpectedly.

[markrinker]

Okay - so God must have had a hand in this one. Story:

Yesterday I hauled construction supplies to International Falls, MN which is on the Canadian border. Left home at 3am to good roads and clear skies. About 3 hours into the 5+ hour destination, it began to snow and temps dropped to single digits. Traffic also picked up in the morning hours.

As I headed across the open expanse of northwestern Minnesota's 'Iron Range', the roads became marginal - it appeared that the plows had not yet been dispatched, but significant blowing snow was covering the roads. Shifting the transfer case into 4 HI, I proceeded at only a fraction off my normal pace, settling into a pace of about 65mph. No ice - just blowing snow.

Heading into a downhill curve, on what appeared to be dry pavement, I felt the front wheels break loose, and the trailer start to 'push'. Knowing that accelaration was my friend at this point, I stayed into the throttle, and steered into the slight drift. No response. The curve was covered in ice that was not visibile, and had not been present previously that day.

In short - too heavy, too fast, too slick, too much off camber in the curve. "This is gonna leave a mark", I thought to myself.

As is the case, time seemed to slow down around me. I even had time to ponder this thread on the diesel page about black ice! Now I had to admit its existance!!!

Somewhere in that pregnant moment of impending doom, an old trick came to mind. I reached for the e-brake controller, and manually pulled on the trailer brakes, while staying into the throttle slightly. The trailer tugged slightly, straightening out the slight jackknife and eliminating the push which was causing the drift.

Bingo. The heavy weight of the equipment centered over 4 new trailer tires really scrubbed off some speed fast. Traction was regained and I was through the curve, with only feet of the opposing lane left before I had a date with a guardrail. Sort of like dragging an anchor that causes you to go in a straight line.

Okay, okay I believe now. 'Black ice' ain't necessarily black - but it sure is real!

[ 03-01-2005, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: Mark Rinker ]

[rjschoolcraft]

The trailer brake technique has saved me many times. I usually couple it with more foot feed to pull everything back straight.

I don't know if you recall, but back in November (the day before Thanksgiving) I wrecked my dad's 34' motorhome in very similar circumstances to what you describe. Was bringing dad home from the hospital in Joliet and wrecked near Kankakee. I had driven right through the area about two hours prior on the way up. Had no trailer brakes to help out... rolled it in the ditch, Mom spent the night in the hospital in Kankakee and totalled the motorhome. Mom and dad are still recovering from it.

That is the only time in the hundreds of thousands of miles that I've driven that I had absolutely no control over a vehicle. Nothing I did changed our course. I could see it coming and was helpless to stop it. Partly, the motorhome handled like a pig and the wind was blowing close to 40 mph right into the side of us as we turned through a curve on the Interstate. I felt terrible.

[markrinker]

They are like driving a sailboat when its slick and windy.