New Duramax owner - former Cummins owner

[XTOCAK]

I made the plunge just two weeks ago and have been thoroughly pleased and amazed by my new 2002 Duramax. I bought a new 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins back in July and was very disappointed after the first week. The thing was so noisy my wife refused to go anywhere with me, it rode like something off the Oregon Trail, and just wasn't what I had heard that it would be. Granted, the thing could pull like there was no tomorrow but I was very disappointed. I put up with it for a couple of months and then decided it was time to opt for a truck that I didn't have to wear earplugs for the entire time I was on the highway - yes, I had 'em in the truck, wore 'em all the time, and they were there when I traded it in for the next poor fella.

Anyway, I took a bit of a beating on the trade (not too bad) and ended up with a 2002 Crew Cab Duramax Long Bed - what a ride. It tows, it hauls, it moves, it scoots and best of all it doesn't require earplugs! Better yet, the wife now rides with me and has even driven it a couple of times - that could be a bad thing should she take too much of a liking to it but I'd rather have a second Duramax sitting in the driveway than the alternative.

Man is this thing quick! I've got the Allison auto and have been amazed by the quickness and power. The Dodge had the HO/6-speed manual and was okay but nothing like this thing. Anyone out there reading this who is thinking about buying a Duramax should purchase with 100% confidence. I've had no problems with mine and have been amazed! And yes, last week I took a new Dodge with the "new" Cummins out for a test drive (I've got a brother who sells Dodges) and it was quiet. But once you climbed into the cab and started going down the road, that echo chamber of a cab started to give me flashbacks to the one I had owned. SOOOOO glad I own a Duramax!!!

[ 09-25-2002: Message edited by: XTOCAK ]

[ 09-25-2002: Message edited by: XTOCAK ]</p>

[MountainMax]

Welcolm aboard. Along with the best truck, you've got the best forum going. You will find the most helpful and courteous people here. There is some tongue and cheek ribbing of a few of the regulars, but we dont put up with what you see on other boards. Of course all will agree with your purchase. You too will be telling friends and other brand truck owners "don't believe me.. go test drive one" Thats what I've had to do. Convincing people how different this engine/allison combo is is hard to do. Good luck with the new truck.

[SoCalDMAX]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on the new truck!

Wow, talk about a testimonial! This is my first diesel truck, but you have a lot more experience than I do. I hope it continues to amaze and delight you as do ours.

Now if some guy named Mackin comes around sayin' "how about a little Juice, it'll blow your mind" just say NO. Or you'll end up like the rest of us. Demented for more power. Or without a license.

Check out the Diesel Pull Off 3 article. John Kennedy (our resident diesel guru and purveyor of all things that make power) took a 16,000lb + trailer and 4 *ahem* "adults" up a 6% grade. At 84mph. :eek: :eek: And he's probably at home cooking up something even worse, er, better.

Be vewy vewy cawefuwl. ;)

Regards, Steve

[Tractorhauler]

Welcome XTOCAK,
If you like the DMax/Allison now just wait until it gets 15-20K...it just keeps getting better. My mileage and performance keeps getting better. I just love the fact that my truck gets better mileage than my wifes YukonXL.
My brother in law was just in town from Eagle River, Alaska and couldn't believe how this thing drove.

How is the Dall sheep hunting up your way?
I have one Dall sheep hunt left in me I think...your state is amazing.

Regards,

Mark

[bluehwy]

I drove a HO (high output) six-speed 2003 RAM dually last Saturday (no automatic available yet for the HO) and it was no louder in the

[conradv]

So why doesn't the Cummins have a 10 year/200,000 mile (or a 15 year/300,000 mile) warranty?

;)

[mackin]

I had to scan up to the top to see where I was ?????Yup this is The Diesel Page forum based on the Duramax diesel ...Whew.... I thought my bookmark was screwed up and I was at the TDR for a minute !!!!!!!! :eek:


Mac ;)

[Maverick]

XTOCAK,
Welcome. Where did you do your deal? Hutchings or Glacier? I run to the peninsula about 3 days a week and every Friday. If you want to meet sometime just shoot me an email.

Jeff

[mackin]

conradv ,

Well I'll tell you they did stick there neck out on a descent power train warranty package unlike GM did with our Allison.......This is poor IMO that we, (I) ,will have to buy a ext warranty @ $1200 bucks with in the next few months if I want continued coverage......This is not adequate.....


XTOCAK,

Welcome aboard.....You'll have many comfortable quiet miles ahead of you may they be as trouble free as possible......


bluehwy,


Welcome

First post and I see your trying to make some friends.....
============================================
Comparing numerous Duramax problems (that I have followed) to the Cummins engine, the Cummins is practically without fault.
============================================

With out fault !!!! You surely don't or want to get into a Pi$$ing contest do ya????? Enjoy your new Cummins.....As we will our Duramaxes......

MAC

:D

[ 09-25-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[XTOCAK]

I bought mine at Alaska Sales & Service in Anchorage.

As for bluehwy, I've heard all the hype being thrown by Chrysler and it's groupies about the Cummins. I've also heard their anti-Duramax dribble about the aluminum heads, that they don't heat up in the winter thus freezing out the passengers, the lact of power, and on, and on, and on. That's why I bought the line of crap and opted for a Dodge two months ago. Well, experience is the only true test and I traded that big, bad, tough, million mile, less moving parts, "superior to anything else on the road", medium heavy duty, can't run stock with it Dodge Cummins for a Chevy Duramax. Sorry, I bought the hype at first but then realized GM had a superior product - Isuzu has been building DIESEL engines for over 60 years and the name Allison is synonomous with true truck transmissions. Not the in-house built trannies being produced by Chrysler that you know when you buy it is going to produce nothing but problems down the road.

To each their own, you seem to like the Cummins so go ahead and purchase it. Just don't say I didn't tell ya so ;)

[DMAXDiva]

Amen, XTOCAK!

and welcome aboard!!!

[3TV]

Very very well said XTOCAK! I purchased an '02 Cummins HO in August of '01, and from day one was disappointed with what I considered to be lackluster performance. Ok, I'll say what I really thought, ... it was a gutless wonder, and it got horrible fuel mileage (7.5 mpg towing an 11,000 lb toy hauler trailer). I put up with the lack of performance and poor fuel economy for over a year, and after having taken it back to the dealer three separate times for a "low power" and poor fuel mileage problem, and having the dealer not be able to fix the problem, I decided that truck needed to become someone else's problem.

Exit Cummins HO

Enter Duramax/Allison

Life is good again. The Duramax Chevy absolutely positively blows away my '02 Cummins HO in regards to both performance and fuel economy. Not to mention the Chevy is night and day more comfortable and enjoyable to drive than the Dodge ever was. You are correct XTOCAK, the Cummins HO is more hype than it is performance. There sure wasn't enough H in the O of my Cummins HO.

3TV

[WKener]

XTOCAK, I am glad you are satisfied with your decision to purchase a DMax. If you are happy with it, that is all that should matter, right? I don't have enough personal experience with a DMax (to avoid the brother's uncle's friend stuff) to either assault or defend it. Only time will tell how they perform... And I, for one, hope they do well because only competition will lead to improvement.

I do agree with bluehwy in the fact that I didn't notice a big difference in ride quality between my dodge and the DMax I drove, but there were the obvious driving differences due to the IFS.

conradv, about the 10yr/200K mile warranty that is not offered... For the '89 model year when Chrysler contracted Cummins for production, Cummins proposed a ~500K mile (not sure exactly on the number) warranty on the engines, but Chrysler opted to provide their own warranty (obviously less).

3TV, there definitely was something wrong with your HO, performance should have been much, much better than that. I know my truck gets 22+mpg unloaded on the highway, and gets nearly 17mpg all winter locked in 4x4 around town. It really is too bad they treated you like junk and blew it off. That's dodge for ya.

Wes

[ 09-25-2002: Message edited by: WKener ]</p>

[Paintdude]

So are we suppost to go and post over on the Dodge Diesel board now? :rolleyes:

[XTOCAK]

Naw, I wouldn't go over to that other board 'cause they tend to get a little touchy when ya start talking dirty about that Cummins.

I ought to know, I was a member of that board until I decided to trade UP!!! ;)

I wasn't trying to start a trash war as much as just letting everyone know how much I loved my Duramax versus the Cummins. Most importantly I was trying to impart my experience to those who may be trying to decide which vehicle they should choose. I have friends who own Powerstrokes and Cummins, and they seem to truly enjoy their ownership experience. For me, the Cummins was a nightmare of noise and gutless power. It didn't suit my needs so I traded up...for someone else, the noise might not bother them and they might actually enjoy owning a 3/4 truck that has the power of a Kia :D .

Okay, WKener and bluehwy, now that I've really got yer nerves up, the last few sentences were a feeble attempt at a joke. I hope whatever you guys decide to purchase makes you as happy as my Duramax has made me. Have a good night folks.

[XTOCAK]

Ah heck, I just reread bluehwy's post again and can't let one of his statements go or I won't sleep a wink tonight. I'd be thinking about all the cool jokes I could post about his reply.....

"the Cummins is practically without fault"

Can you say:

I luv knowing I'm gonna get to change the lift pump before 100,000 miles on my Cummins. Kinda makes me feel like a real diesel mechanic.

I can't wait until I get to replace the ball joints on this thing after 60,000 highway miles.

Sure would be nice if I could have gotten a fuel pressue gauge and tranny temp guage factory installed so I can tell in advance when each of 'em is about to go out.

I know I'm gonna get to see my Dodge towed in to the dealer someday so that really cool automatic tranny can be replaced.

Allison? No I suppose not, 47RE is easier, huh.

My wife rides with me in my truck and thinks it's great for our marriage that we can see each other's lips moving but can't hear anything but the sweet music of the Cummins.

Took the kids to a Ozzy Osbourne concert in the Dodge but their hearing was shot before he could belt out the first line. :D Jeez, what a waste of tickets....

I love getting 8 miles to the gallon 'cause it really makes me feel like I'm driving a Peterbuilt towing a 45,000 pound load.

Just trying to provide a little humor. Enjoy whatever you drive. ;)

[Vette Racer]

Oh Gee, I just can't stand it! I have to throw my two cents worth in. I used to own a 99 do?ge CTD and I decided to trade up to a D/A. It is like night and day. All I have to say is, go drive one. If you want a diesel to pull a boat, buy a CTD, if you want to pull a load, get a D/A. If you want to pull over CGVW put the Juice box on and get on down the road. There's just NO comparision! FYI!!!

[WKener]

Paintdude, you are more than welcome to post anywhere you please, just as I thought I was... But I appreciate the warm welcome :rolleyes: Tell me.. If my post, verbatim, were made by a DMax owner would it catch the same flak? I doubt it... Re-read my post as if you didn't know I owned a dodge and you might see that I didn't intend it to be negative in any respect.

XTOCAK, I guess my post was not percieved the way in which it was intended... My points were simply as follows:

-It is a good thing you are happy with the DMax, everyone should be happy with what they have. And like I said before, I hope the DMax is a good engine in the long run because good competition is the only way to progress (it wouldn't be good competition if the DMax were junk, would it?). This in no way denotes any brand superiority.

-I agreed with bluehwy only in the fact that I didn't notice a big difference in ride quality, which is simply my opinion. I was not defending his post. Again, no brand superiority involved with this point.

-conradv inquired about why the cummins is not offered with a longer warranty, I thought I could provide some information that someone may find interesting. Again, I did not say, nor did I infer that the cummins is a better engine.

-3TV had a bad experience, and I was just using my mileage figures to confirm that his were well below par. Maybe nobody noticed that I said I think dodge has crappy service...

I try my best to keep any and all posts that I make 100% objective, and refrain from engaging in brand wars or anything of that sort. I have owned at least one vehicle from almost every manufacturer, and I really liked them all. I am not brand loyal, I am simply a fan of quality engineering.

Nobody has my nerves up, I just think my previous post must not have been read the way I intended. I meant for it to be constructive, with additional information that someone may want to read. Let me know if I am not allowed to do that.

BTW, nobody over on the TDR is overlysensitive about their truck... We trash our own trucks more than anyone else does. We do it all in the name of enhanced performance.

Wes

[ 09-25-2002: Message edited by: WKener ]</p>

[SoCalDMAX]

Hi Wes,

Glad to have you here! A few others from the TDR come over from time to time and share a lot of wisdom. Sure wish more would come and share theirs as well.

With the common rail injection for the 03 CTD, It'll be nice to see some of the power mod technology transfer over. The same great minds who honed their techniques on CTDs and then had a bit of a learning curve with the Dmax system should be able to transfer that new knowledge back to the new injection system a lot easier.

Next thing you know, all the big block gassers and V-10s will be treading lightly when they come near a diesel, cuz everybody will be "speakin' softly and crankin' 600hp" pretty soon.LOL :eek:

Regards, Steve

[3TV]

Hey guys, my '02 Cummins HO was likely not the norm for those trucks. My prior '98 Cummins 5 speed truck had lots more power and got 5 mpg better fuel mileage than the '02 Cummins HO.

I suspected that my '02 truck simply needed an ECM reflash, but I could never get the dealer to do it. Each time they checked it they told me everything was "within spec". Too bad it was so gutless, and too bad it got such horrible fuel mileage though. Running empty on the highway I got 14.6 mpg with the Cummins HO. I drove to Las Vegas and back two days ago with the Duramax (200 miles each way), and with the cruise set on 80 mph, I got 22.6 mpg (juice at level 4).

I could have added an Edge EZ, or injectors, to fix the lack of power problem with that Dodge, but in my mind there was something seriously wrong with that truck. If there was a problem to begin with, that the dealer cannot find, or fix, then the last thing I wanted to do was start bombing the truck, and perhaps voiding my warranty.

So I started over with a new Duramax, and after just one weekends worth of towing I knew everything was working up to its expected potential. The truck was perfect, so bombs away. I couldn't be happier than I am with this DMax, and do not plan on going back to Cummins any time soon.

3TV

[XTOCAK]

WKener, I understood what you were saying in your first post and was only poking some fun at the whole subject. I too am a member of TDR and have posted there a few times back when I had my Dodge. Wasn't trying to give anyone a hard time as much as just having some fun with it. My coworkers and I all agree that whatever diesel you have, there are good and bad points to each of them...if you really like the one you've got, just maintain it and hope for the best. 'Cause as much as each of us hope they are, non of 'em are bulletproof. Have a good day everybody!!

[Paintdude]

Wess, don`t assume anything.. ;)

Have a nice day and welcome aboard.. :D smile.gif

[SaltH2OFisherman]

After owning two CTDs both

[FightinTXag]

"The Cummins engine is categorized by the EPA as a medium heavy-duty diesel engine, compared to the light heavy-duty designation for GM Duramax and Ford Power Stroke diesels and it has an average life-to-overhaul of 350,000 miles and is backed by a 5-year/100,000 miles warranty."

-Who cares what the EPA calls an engine? They have similar hp and torque numbers. Same warranty as offered for the Dmax.


"With up to 40 percent fewer parts than competitive V8 diesel engines, the Cummins engine has fewer joints to leak or parts to fail. Cummins Turbo Diesel scored best of all diesel pickups on the J.D. Power Initial Quality Study."

-Fewer cylinders, smaller displacement, fewer parts. Makes sense.


"The new High-Pressure Common Rail (HPCR) fuel system along with Cummins proprietary software enables pilot injection

[Amianthus]

The warranty is not a Cummins warranty. It's DC all the way. No deductable on it though. I'm sure DC could offer a 200,000 or 300,000 mile warranty without issue. But then the option of the engine would cost more. That's counter-productive if you ask me.

As for crossing technology over from GM to Dodge, sorry guys. Common rail injection has been in use in Europe for many years. Cat, Isuzu, Ford, and yes, Cummins (among many others) have all been using this technology in passenger vehicles and light / medium trucks. The Dmax is not the first with this technology. Sorry to burst your bubbles. The reason it works in Europe and not here (yes, I know the Dmax is here) is because the Diesel quality is much better there than Stateside. Because of the lesser fuel quality here, the CTD may start to experience the same problems with regards to fuel systems as the Dmax has. Only time will tell. Maybe those fuel system problems are engineered out, but somehow I doubt it. Like I said, only time will tell.

XTOCAK, I won't try to change your mind on the CTD experience. But, when you have a problem with your Dmax (and you will), see if you can get any kind of service from your dealership.

Service will make or break a truck nowadays. I have had my truck back for a couple of recalls, a lift pump (crap design) and a new tranny (lost 5th gear from nut falling off). That's it. I am now at the 500 HP realm and have had no other service issues at all. My dealer is second to none and they will continue to get my money.

I have to agree that you seem to have gotten a raw deal on service with your Dodge. That's too bad. But I can say with certainty, that there are numerous Dmax owners that have had the same experience with the service they've gotten. If you get treated better, awesome. Stick with them and never let them go. If not, in a few months you'll be shaking your fist at GM and looking for another truck.

On a personal note, I bought the Cummins for the rock solid reputation, durability, and price. I have bad blood with FoMoCo (used to own an F-250), and the GM dealer would not sell me a 6.5. I'm not kidding. They refused outright to sell me a 6.5TD. I have to respect them for that.

I sincerely hope that your Dmax experience is all that you want it to be. All that it should be for buying a $45000 truck. My truck is all that I wanted and more. I hope yours will be the same.

[conradv]

Nobody ever said that "The Dmax was the first with this technology (Common Rail)"

[01_Duramax_Dually]

Hey Mackin... :D

I was like you..I had to make sure my bookmark had not gotten jumbled as I thought I was on the TD page.....This has been some interesting reading to say the least.

I actually drove a 03 3500 Dodge the other day just out of flat curiousity. It was out front on the lot. Nice Big Black shiny one with a big chrome grill...(Actually looked really nice) The sales rep was really polite(as they all should be nowadays since the economy is in the tank). The truck was fired up and was significantly quieter than the previous trucks. Alot appeared to be the 100lbs of insulation added under the hood.... :D . Pop the hood and at it is the same ol Cummins. The drive was better then earlier trucks but still had the feeling you need to wear a "Kidney Belt" as the GM truck still has the ride quality over all of them "HANDS DOWN". But in all fairness this quality of ride really depends on the individual, Some people like that rough ride some people do not. I have had both and when I was younger I like that rough, bounce me around feel as it felt like I was in a TRUCK...Are they supposed to feel like that??????

Anyway the truck seemed to be a very nice change for Dodge. The interior as always is sparse and not user friendly but maybe I am used to my Chevrolet...The 4 door deal is an extended cab set up where they added another handle, the room in the back is still small and the seat was like a piece of plywood with some foam....

Over all I would give it an 8 or so. Looks like it will be a solid truck for the Dodge boys to brag about. The price at the one I looked at was 40K and change as it was fully loaded.

Bottomline: If you like your truck and the reliability then enjoy it no matter who makes it or what they claim or the people out there trying to convince their truck is better..It is all HOGWASH...I see them all on the road and all of them are doing some heavy towing....Some just go faster than others... :eek: .. ;)

Carry On...... :D

[Black Dog]

the CTD may start to experience the same problems with regards to fuel systems as the Dmax has. Only time will tell. Maybe those fuel system problems are engineered out, but somehow I doubt it. Like I said, only time will tell.

What fuel systems problems are you referring to here?

[XTOCAK]

Back when I owned it, I had to take the 2002 Dodge Ram Cummins in to the local dealer on three occasions and all I got was overcharged, dirty looks and dumb looks. The latter was when I asked about the high idle option the Dodge's have when using the PTO wire located under the hood. They didn't have a clue so I printed out the post on TDR whereupon they were dumbfounded. They said they'd get back to me....that was in late July and never heard another word. Three phone calls and they said they didn't know what I was talking about. Don't even get me started on the oil change and tubular side step issue.

Took my new Chevy Durmax in last week for an oil change at Alaska Sales and Service, and spoke with the service writer about the high idle option. He instantly knew about it, even though I had a printout from this website, and they proceeded to install it (wire, switch, etc.) and only charged me $18 for parts. I asked him about the labor and he said it was a slow day, didn't have anything else for his electrical mechanic to do and wanted to promote a good image for a first time Chevy owner. You know, those guys at Alaska Sales and Service in Anchorage really know how to treat a customer. Can't say that about any of the Dodge dealers in southcental Alaska....then again, there's good and bad service everywhere.

[MountainMax]

Hey SaltH2OFisherman I wanna go. I'm living near Willowbrook right now. I'll help pay for gas, beer and would you believe, I'll even stick around and help clean the boat.

[bluehwy]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. It

[WKener]

XTOCAK, it sounds like you got yourself a good dealer. If only there were more like that... I know I will never bring my truck into a Dodge stealer '5-star' service dept again. The first, and only time I brought it in was for a throttle linkage recall. I figured they could do that without problem, and to my suprise they actually did!
What they didn't do so well, was treat my truck like they cared about it... I sat patiently and waited (and watched) after they completed the job, while some service guy tore off in my truck!
It appeared as if he saw my gauges, and figured that was the green light to go ahead and hotrod it. Squealed the tires out of the lot, and smoked them through 3rd gear!! That is something only I do to my truck!!!! (and very very rarely do I treat it that way, so why should he get to?)

Needless to say, I spent quite a bit of time 'dealing' with the service manager about it... I ended up getting 3 free oil changes out of them (which I will not use on the truck).

BTW XTOCAK, I understood your post, and the good-natured ribbing involved :D If we all got along perfectly, who would we compete with??? tongue.gif :cool:

[Amianthus]

Originally posted by Black Dog:"What fuel systems problems are you referring to here?"

Fuel injectors failing, fuel injector clogging, rail pressure regulators malfunctioning from dirty fuel, fuel filters with unidentified substances in them from substandard fuel, et al.

C'mon now, you've been reading about these problems for how long? Or maybe you've been wearing blinders (I doubt it). Or maybe you're trying to make the Dodge owner look like the bad guy by hoping he will be uninformed and spewing some sort of hearsay. I can't believe that you'd do any of that. Black Dog, please tell me your just asking about this for narrative purposes only. I don't want to think that you'd stoop to such a level.

XTOCAK, yup. Seems like you got bit by the bad service department. That's truly sad. It'll catch up with them. I hope you have much better luck with your GM. It sounds like you are already.
Although, I will say, the Cummins isn't noisy. At least, not behind the wheel. Outside it's a different story. Having the relief driver sleeping hasn't been a problem for us (wife and me) when we go on cross-country trips. I dunno, maybe she just doesn't like the radio station you picked and was blaming the truck. :D

[FightinTXag]

Bluehwy,
Do a search for Broker. He has over 400,000 on an '01.

Granted, with only a couple of years in service the Duramax is largely an unproven engine. Few have been around long enough to make over 100,000. The '03 CTD setup is even newer though. The bottom end is proven, but everything else has less of a track record than the Dmax.

[Black Dog]

From Amianthus
"Fuel injectors failing, fuel injector clogging, rail pressure regulators malfunctioning from dirty fuel, fuel filters with unidentified substances in them from substandard fuel, et al."

Yes, there have been a few failed injectors, but from my perspective, no more and probably less than competing designs that do not use direct rail.

Problems due to bad fuel really can't be considered to be a design problem with the injection system.

[SaltH2OFisherman]

MountianMax,

I am always looking for some one to go fishing with. If you stick around to help clean the boat you might be the first. I am going through withdrawals it has been almost two months since the last trip. With Work, sick, weather, and other lame excuses that have kept me land locked, I don't know if I remember how to fish. I bet I can figure it out though. It is about to get as good as it gets. The birds will start working the pods of shrimp and it will be time to go have some serious fun. The action will be so fast that you will not have time to drink beer. What part of the Rockies are you in. Lived in Wyoming for a year.

[JF]

I too went from Dodge/Cummins to 01 Chev/Duramax-Allison. My Dodge was a 97 Cummins 12 valve. I loved my old truck, but like my new one even more. I have to disagree about the earplugs. The Cummins was just as quiet in the cab on the highway. It made more noise below 35 mph and especially at idle. Both good engines, but wouldn't go back! :D :D

[afp]

Maybe one of these days, folks will be able to post about the plusses and minuses of their trucks with getting their egos involved. After all, none of us here designed our trucks, so how can any of us really have any ego on the line?

Blaine

[Amianthus]

It's not that it's a design problem. That's not what I meant. What I was getting at is that the common rail is more susceptable to fail when crappy fuel is used. And we seem to have alot of it here in the States (which is why I always use an additive). Cummins may know this and may have spec'd the Bosch system to allow for the use of rougher fuels. Although, the Bosch rep at the TDR nationals said "No" to biodiesel, so that theory may be out the window. And the CTD may have the same problems. That's what I was trying to say.

[FightinTXag]

You read it here folks!

"And the CTD may have... problems"
-Amianthus 9/26/2002
:D