"Juice" vs. Duramaximiser: Need info

[MountainMax]

I've been watching the evolution of power products for a year and a half now. "Juice" is up to version 4.3 and the Miser has apparently cured it's early pressure problems. I would like to add a power product but I don't have the knowledge that I need. I have heard negatives about how the Juice makes it's power yet so many of you have enthusiatically embraced it. An educated objective explaination* of how they work and the pros and cons of each would be greatly appreciated. *(as opposed to an opinion based on the intoxicating effects of horsepower and torque. i.e. "I dunno how it works but the _____ is for me. Sheer goes fast. Beat me a ____.")
Of course, that doesn't sound like anyone on this forum.

[ 09-17-2002: Message edited by: MountainMax ] ;)

[ 09-17-2002: Message edited by: MountainMax ]</p>

[GMC D-Max]

I'm by no means an expert (Hey John!!), but here's my take: Juice enhances throttle response, and comes on at slightest throttle input. Duramaximiser only comes on after half or more of throttle input. Juice has four selectable power settings (as you probably already know), but can only change settings "key-on, engine-off". Duramaximiser has a dash mounted knob and is infinately adjustable from no input, to full input, and can be adjusted "on the fly". Juice does not (to my knowledge) raise the fuel rail pressure to achieve increased performance, but the Duramaximiser still does, to a certain extent. Some say that the Juice is better for more bottom-end power, and the Duramaximiser is better for top-end, but it's probably all splitting hairs.

[gun runner]

I've had both on my 6-seed. I like the drivability and no black smoke of the Duramaximizer , over the Juice.
Power increase feels about the same , did not have the opportunity to test both at the track.

[Kennedy]

There are essentially 3 ways to improve performance calibrations. Timing, pressure, and pulse width (duration).

Timing

This lays the foundation for the increase of fuel, and is generally what makes the truck come alive and burn the added fuel well. Overdone, it CAN be damaging, but the boxes on the market are well designed, and do a good job of improving timing without any negative effects.


Pressure

The current pressure type modules are the simplest of all. They are more or less restricted to following the OE fueling curve. Experience has shown that pressure can be quite a touchy thing on these trucks as increasing the pressure can find the weak spots. That said, I still run pressure type devices on my truck with no reservations.


Pulse Width

This one has taken the longest to evolve as it is the most complex. It is also the most effective as it easily "reshape" the fuel curve at any given point. With a MAF (mass air flow) sensor in place the additional fuel added during "power enrichment" gives the engine the extra fuel needed to move additional air and pick up speed so the ECM can then continue to increase fuel as necessary. This is why the Dmax pulls so strong with this type of box.


So who does what?

The Duramaximizer and now obsolete (and no longer warranted or serviced Power Play from Bully Dog :( ) are pressure type modules. The only direct affect they have is on pressure. The Duramaximizer is much more friendly as it does not affect idle quality, and uses APP (accelerator pedal position) as well as turbo boost to control the percentage of additional pressure.

The Van Aaken Smart box (aka Dynomite, Power Play II and who knows what other alias's) is a combination pressure/timing box. The addition of timing makes it run stronger and more responsive than a timing only box within the limits of the factory pressure capabilities. The guys from Van Aaken have been uncharacteristically quiet for some time leading me to believe there's something brewing across the pond :eek:

The Edge Juice (aka EZ Amp, Dyno Dominator (and other alias's) controls injector pulse width and timing along with monitoring for transmission slippage which in turn tells the box to back down, and also monitors ECT (engine coolant temp) to limit additional power, not only in an overheat situation, but also during warm up.

The TTS Reflash/Power Loader is as far as I know, the ONLY unit that can exist w/o hardware (optional 3 level switch), and also the only one to modify the factory programming internal to the ECM. It also has several alias's, but again as I understand, Steve Cole is the only one with the "magic key" to get inside. This program alters pulse width, timing, and transmission shift correction pressure, AND also brings on the potential to alter the max engine speed and vehicle speed limiter along with seperate control of when the pilot injection switches off and other things.


It's not often I type this much, but this should save a lot of time on the telephone, as I will likely post to my site as an overview.

[ 09-17-2002: Message edited by: kennedy ]</p>

[RichC]

You can also do as I do and run both a Duramaxizer and an Edge Box. I was one of the first to have a Duramaxizer ( Serial #9.

John persuaded me to try an Edge box which I kept. The edge box comes in quicker than the Duramaxizer. The Duramaxizer I think is more user friendly. By that I mean that it is smooth and does not effect the trans as much as the Edge.

I really like running both, I keep the Edge on setting 2 in normal and 3 in T/H. I also run the Duramaxizer at about 1/4 to 1/2 position. With that combinatiion I still get smooth shifts but awesome power. If someone wants to play, all I have to do is go to T/H and turn up the Duramaxizer.

Hey John, could you repeat what you just said??? :D

[JOEDURAMAXIMIZER]

John,

The DURAMAXIMIZER does not just raise fuel pressure. It infact also increases the injector pulse width, check it out, just hook up your tech II and watch the pulse width increase as you dial in the additional performance with the DURAMAXIMIZER.

[pullinpower]

Joeduramaximser,does TTS reprogram all the PCM's for Pacific performance? Are they the only one with the "magical key" that john is talking about? I thought that you guys done all your own PCM reprogramming.

[c5dura]

If you stack the Edge Juice and the Duramaximizer and they both widen the pulse, do they overlap each other? In other words, won't the final pulse width be even wider than either one by itself and therefore approach unsafe levels?

If not, why wouldn't either product not just program in the wider pulse in the first place?

I would think the same principle would apply if you stacked the Juice with the Power Loader, no?

P.S. I'm trying to convince the author of LS1 Edit to add support for the Duramax (he just added support for the 8.1L).

That would give each of us direct control over all these variables. The program/interface cost $595 for a single VIN.

This of course also means we would have the means to blow up our engines if not careful :eek: , but that is where online help forums such as this come in handy to share what parameters/tables to change to what values to safely increase power levels.

[sixl]

I have a juice box 3.2 or something and I have had no trouble out of it untell now. It started the "fishbite" and dies some times when taking off pulling a load.
My question is has any one tried the power loader and how well does it work. I am thinking about getting one to try and maybe using both. ;)

[MountainMax]

Thanks John. Too bad You don't get consulting fees for all the valuable info that you provide...You could retire. Well, now I'm armed with information. Problem is I still can't make up my mind. If the Juice timing arrangement is safe for the engine and the power comes on sooner and lower I'll probably go that way. Maybe if I wait just a little longer... something will come across the pond. Or they all will keep getting a little better.
Oh yeah; Where can I get one? How Much?

[SoCalDMAX]

MountainMax,

"Thanks John. Too bad You don't get consulting fees for all the valuable info that you provide...You could retire."

Then you asked, "Oh yeah; Where can I get one? How Much?"

Well, I got a little chuckle out of that, in a nice way. ;) Not only does he not get paid for advice, but he pays advertising fees, which are undoubtedly much higher than member fees.

I don't think JK wants to retire just yet, but he does sell the Edge Juice, as well as many other fine products. Give him a call at (715)255-9433 and see what he can do for you. We've all seen how great his advice is, and I know everyone who's purchased from him can testify how great his service is.

I've had a lot of questions that I never even had to ask because someone else asked and I was able to read it here, or John had researched it and posted before I could even ask it. Thanks again!

Regards, Steve