Duramax or Cummins

[82beast]

Hello All
I am looking for a new truck, my 82 K10 chevy 6.2NA is being made into a off-roader, An i stuck between choosing the Duramax or the Cummins. The Cummins I know has a reliable track record but what about the Duramax, an all aluminum diesel motor sort-of worries me in the longevity area. I am leaning more towards the Duramax becuase of the Allison, a true crewcab, and the possibilty of getting four-wheel steering, later in '03, The Cummins to get the same power I know I have to get the 6 speed which I am fine with but is a pain-in-the-*** in traffic. Either truck would be a 3/4 ton 4x4 shortbed crewcab fully loaded. My question is how reliable is the D/A combo, what kind of mpg are you guys getting, how well the truck pulls a trailer(my lifted 82), and what kind of power mods are out there and do you guys like them.

Kris

1982 Chevy K10 shortbed stepside 6.2NA with to many mods to list :cool:

[3TV]

Kris,
I sold an '02 Dodge Cummins HO six speed 3500 QC 4x4 to buy an '03 Chevy Duramax/Allison Crew Cab SWB 4x4. The Dodge had 3.54 gears, the Chevy has 3.73 gears.

Dodge:
Empty highway mileage = 13.7 to 16.6
Towing mileage (4500 lb. trailer) = 10 to 11.1 mpg
Towing mileage (11000 lb. trailer) = 6.7 to 7.5 mpg

Chevy:
Empty highway mileage = 18.1 to 21.0 mpg
Towing mileage (4500 lb. trailer) = 15.2 mpg
Towing mileage (11000 lb. trailer) = 9.6 to 10.2 mpg

Stock vs stock the Duramax will pull the 11,000 lb. trailer up any grade at least 5 to 10 mph faster than the Cummins HO would. And I have no PITA manual transmission to row through the gears while in traffic.

Nuff said. :cool:

3TV

[ 09-15-2002: Message edited by: 3TV ]</p>

[NutNbutGMC]

^...Duramax / Allison... Just be sure and get it in a GMC... If you really want an answer, go put your foot in one. Gouge on it hard. You'll never think twice about a Cummins. More than enough said... :cool: :cool:

[ 09-15-2002: Message edited by: NutNbutGMC ]</p>

[Captain Mal]

82Beast,

Neighbor and I pull 42ft. trailers that average 9K lbs +/-. He uses BOTH a Powerstroke and a Cummings. I use the Duramax with Allison in a 4X4 short box, extended cab GMC 2500HD. It's probably exactly what you are considering.

We hooked up his equipment trailer to all three trucks. Towing the same 11K lbs. the Max went up this hill over 70mph, the Powerstroke at 63mph and the Cummings at 60mph.

The Powerstroke and the Duramax both get the same towing mileage and we have far more than 100,000 miles towing those trailers around the country to prove it. The Cummings gets about 1-2 mpg MORE than the others under ideal conditions. Under headwind conditions all three trucks can drop to around 9 mpg.

Unloaded the Max and the Powerstroke get between 18 and 21 mpg. His Cummings gets maybe 1 mpg. better. Another friend with a Cummings gets about 1mpg LESS.

My Duramax/Allison is close to 100,000 miles. It burns no oil, has no unusual traits and has not required any repairs of any kind. The original brakes are still new looking, the transmission oil stays clean and I hope my relating this does not jinx me.

The Dodge/Cummings tears off rear??? tires and is quite slow but steady for the long pulls. The Ford is now on it's 5th clutch as it shatters the hubs on a fairly regular basis and has problems with the cam sensor.

I talk to Duramax drivers all over the country and noone I have met has related any stories of having unusual problems.

Hope I helped answer your questions.

'01 GMC D/A 4X4 ext. sb

[KenZ]

82beast,

Just thought I would point it out, but you may know it anyway. You did say an all aluminum motor. The duramax only has al heads.

Maybe this will lessen your fear some. Go with the Duramax.

Ken

[RedDog1]

82 Beast,

What kind of answers did you think you would get on this site ;)

If you are looking at 03 Chevy's against 03 Dodge's,,, I would choose Dodge. Now, GMC against Dodge would be a tough choice. Either way I would go with the manual tranny,,, to many lazy people that don't want to shift :D

3TV,

Those Dodge mileage numbers don't seem right at all, especially with the 3.54 gears :confused: My 454 gets better mileage than that towing more weight!!

RedDog

[RRHOGGER]

Dodge is comming out with an updated auto to take the full 305 hp. I don't think anyone knows yet what kind of mpg the 03 Cummins HPCR engine will get. The Duramax has a very good two year record for reliability with just a few early bugs as do all new engines. Some might recall quite a few problems the powerstroke had the first two years. Statistically speaking you are better off with the Duramax and its two years to work out the bugs rather than the 03 Dodge which is untried so to speak (not counting its use in europe).
Mechnicals aside; check out the cabs, drive them on a rough road. Sit in GM's best cab and then sit in Dodge's best. No comparison: it's like comparing a lincoln to a falcon. The GM products also have the best ride by far. smile.gif smile.gif

[Jomar]

82Beast, there`s rumors that the rejected chevy parts are used for GMCs


Jomar

[Black Dog]

Also, look at the entire torque curve, not just the peak numbers in the advertising when you compare the power output of these three engines.

[hoot]

"If you are looking at 03 Chevy's against 03 Dodge's,,, I would choose Dodge. Now, GMC against Dodge would be a tough choice. Either way I would go with the manual tranny,,, to many lazy people that don't want to shift"


Now that's a silly post if I ever saw one. You must be joking.

We all know there is no difference between the GMC and the Chevy.

As far as being too lazy to shift, I guess you have manual windows, manual steering and manual brakes too cause too many people are too lazy to steer, push hard on the brake pedal or reach over while in traffic to put the window up in the rain ;)

The biggest reason they are selling manuals these days in diesel pickups is cost and the fact that Ford and Dodge canot give you full power behind an auto. Lot's of "men" won't have an automatic. Not macho.

[3TV]

RedDog,
your results may vary... My '02 Dodge was a gutless dog from day one, and drank fuel like there was no tomorrow. I took it back to the dealership after owning it for just three days to have a "low power" and "poor fuel mileage" problem fixed, and the dealer checked everything out, and said everything was within spec. I took it back two more times for the same problem in the year that I owned it, and each time I was told the same thing, namely, that everything was within spec. The dealer could see what fuel mileage I was getting by simply looking at the "average economy" display on the overhead console, and it said 7 mpg after each trip towing the big trailer, and fuel mileage had also been calculated manually to verify the overhead console was accurate. On one trip to the dealer there was 1400 miles on the trip meter, with an average economy over that 1400 miles of 7 mpg.

Those fuel economy numbers I quoted are factual, even if they are the lowest I have ever heard of for a Cummins Dodge. They were the lowest my dealer had ever heard of as well, but they could not find a problem with my truck. Now you know why I sold a $40,000 pickup truck after just one year of ownership, it was a gutless hog that never lived up to my expectations. In fact, it wasn't even close. The new Chevy is so much better than the Dodge it replaced that I should be the one calling the Dodge a Falcon, because it towed like one.

3TV

[Swayse]

I had a 2001 Dodge with the Cummins (no g), loved it, but it was modified. Now I drive a 2002 GMC with the Isuzu and love it. Drive both and see. I would lean towards the GMC and let someone else work the bugs out of the new Dodges. Wife just walked in and said DODGE, but she drives a 2002 Dodge 1500, so it might just be brand loyalty. She don't like my GMC, says it rubs her wrong, no reason, it just rubs her wrong.

[Kansas Kid]

Hey hoot,

did you ever think he might be talking about how butt a$$ ugly the 03 Silverados are? I'm pretty sure he is smart enough to know there are no mechanical differences between the two. But thanks for pointing that out for us guys that are a little bit slower then you. :rolleyes: There is no way I would buy an 03 Chevy at this point either, but I might buy a GMC because they look OK in certain colors (especially black, where that stupid plastic filler doesn't show up so bad). I guess I'm silly as well since I don't want to buy a truck when I find its styling to be repulsive.

I also agree with RedDog in that I would go with the manual transmission in both brands. And it don't have a thing to do with how much of a "man" I am. I just happen to prefer a manual transmission behind a diesel engine, especially since the truck will be used to tow quite often and very heavy loads at that. Not to mention that I simply like the ZF 6-speed, I think it is a great transmission. There isn't much argument that the Allison is great for unloaded drag racing and grocery getting. But the ZF makes for a much better tow rig. Just ask Colorado Kid how is Dmax/ZF did against the Dmax/Allison trucks at the pull off....

[ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: Kansas Kid ]</p>

[hoot]

Kansas Kid,

It was a silly way of putting it.

I won't argue with you about what you like as far as trannys are concerned. My response was to the lazy comment.

The Allison is getting pretty good reviews from members here on it's towing ability. Drag racing is not it's strong point. You got things a little twisted.

I also won't argue on the looks of the Chevy.

[SaltH2OFisherman]

Owned two Dodges

[Jomar]

Attaboy Hoot, tell it like it is!!!!

Jomar

[RedDog1]

Hoot,

I'm glad you told me that there is no difference between GMC and Chevy,,, sure do look different to me!!! :rolleyes: Your propane might be leaking, affecting your judgement :D

BTW,, I have yet to be beat by a Dmax in a truck-pull,,,, and from the ones I have seen,, I have nothin to worry about :eek:

82 Beast,

Ask the same question on a Dodge site and see what answers you get!! smile.gif

RedDog

[Paintdude]

check out this D*dge..

the 12.3 drag Race clip..

Copy and Paste.. :rolleyes:

http://performancediesel.net/Web_Media/web_media.html

[Bart Timothy]

There are a half dozen street driven CTDs as fast, or faster, then the "red rocket", which isn't for sale. Here is a link to the highest dynoed hp, street driven, daily driver, CTD out there - which is for sale. It belongs to Lawrence Bolten of Diesel Dynamics, who just purchased a new 2003 model.

http://www.dieseldynamics.com/24v-p-4sale.htm

Diesel Dynamics' "shop" truck, which they use to haul garbage to the dump, do part runs, and occasionally race, has turned in the 11.9s at the Las Vegas Speedway quarter mile. It is simular to Lawrence's blue truck but lacks the p-pump conversion and ported head, and probably the DD cam.

DD also does work on the D/A, and had good results, for anyone who's interested.

[George Gozelski]

Hey RedDog, If you haven't been beat yet by a Duramax, you are on borrowed time! For being a relatively new rig, big strides are being made in aftermarket performance, you better watch out!

[hoot]

Notice many of the high powered rigs are owned either by aftemarket companies or their employees. Very few people will base their purchase on what a truck can do after dumping thousands in it and taking it to a truck pull. That was the last thing on my mind when I made my decision.

Most want excellent stock power and a trans that's reliable.

[82beast]

to all who repled
I am even closer to choosing the Duramax over the Cummins, yet i still need to drive both. I also have to make sure I can afford to buy one. Over 40 grand for a pickup :eek: ,but hope fully I can.
Thanks again

[RedDog1]

82 Beast,

You got it right,,, go drive both!! But please make your Dmax a GMC :D if you go that route.


George,
I don't doubt what you said,,, but as of now, I'm unbeaten by Dmax's. They can only get better. The Cummins on the other hand is tough for me. I have beat a few and been beaten by a few.

Hoot,
We do have the same brake controller :eek:

RedDog

[Amianthus]

My Effing firewall has prevented me from replying to this topic. I'm sure you all were wondering where I was.

Anyway, first and foremost, you need to decide what you want to do. What the end application will be, if you please. That will get you started in the right direction. If you need a crew cab, the GM may suit you better. If you are going to be spending many, many hours behind the wheel, the GM may suit you better. If you are going off-road alot, the Dodge might be better. Are you needing aftermarket PTO accessories? Utility box? Street Racer? Grocery getter? These questions will help you determine what truck might better suit your needs.

Both will tow whatever you want to. Both will get pretty good mileage. Both will last longer than you will live (probably). One other thing to consider (at least it's a factor for me), is service after the sale. Ask some of the guys on any board about some of the techs at the dealerships. If your GM dealer will make the sale and then screw you on service, a Dodge might be better. I went that way when I bought my Dodge. Ford rubbed me the wrong way with my F-250. So I went to Dodge and have been super-satisfied ever since. Not to mention, if you are going to service / repair the truck yourself, the Dodge is much easier to service. Your results may vary. Each engine has it's quirks. The Dodge has it's lift pump issues. The Dmax seems to have a problem with injectors, regulators, et al. So with either one, you may have engineering issues that will require repair. Unfortuneately, that's the nature of the beast.

I personally like manual transmissions for a couple of reasons. None of which have anything to do masculinity. First, they are easier to repair is something goes wrong. Second, they are more durable than the automatic counterpart. Third, they are more efficient because you don't have a fluid coupling to transfer power through the driveline. Now I'm not saying that the autos are bad. If that is what winds your watch, go for it. You won't be disappointed. But in HD applications, it's manuals all the way for me.

I love my Dodge and won't give it up for anything. It performs better than my wildest expectations and has always been super reliable and has to be super tough (500 HP). My dealership is second to NONE!!! They have treated me like royalty since day one. A 60 mile trip to get there, I would go there for a lug nut before I would go anywhere else. Without exception.

The best thing you can do is talk to owners of either truck in your area and see what they have to say. Look at the trucks, what has been serviced after the sale, how happy the owner is after the sale. That should give you the best idea of what truck you should get. Lotsa luck.

My pockets are now $0.02 lighter.

[ 09-18-2002: Message edited by: Amianthus ]</p>

[Bart Timothy]

Amainthus, you're being too modest around these GM guys. With your setup, you're OVER 500 hp. Keep up the good work.

[Chris N5CWM]

82beast, what did you expect these guys to tell
ya? This is the Duramax forum!

Go to the TDR (Cummins Ram Forum,
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/) and ask the
same question and guess what they'll say.

Just pokin (fun) at ya!! :D

[ 09-19-2002: Message edited by: Chris N5CWM ]</p>