Injector special policy bulletin!

[Kennedy]

The number is 04039 and covers limited 01-02 VIN#'s, but basically extends injector warranty to 7yr, 200,000 miles.


Curiously small particles are blamed for eroding the ball seat:


What might occur as a result of this condition?

Cracks to the fuel injector body or ball seat erosion may exist if the fuel return rate is high. Ball seat erosion is the result of small particles of contamination present in some fuels.Who was it that told us we should clean up our fuel, and inspired me to build the Mega kit?

I know there were some polls and such about injector failures using additives and filtration, BUT without separating the cracks from the washouts...

[MaxACL]

John,

Any idea if new injectors in these "selected" '01 and '02s are covered? I'm still concerned about the replacements and the replacements to the replacements.

Mike

[Kennedy]

Looks like no matter if you are original owner, or have repeat failures you should be covered. Also reimbursement plan is in place for those out of warranty repairs.

This is NOT a recall, and only covers injectors that fail by leakage at this time. Leaking defined as externally, or via excessive return flow rate. I'll also note that SOME dealers may be extra particular about warranty denial, so keep things clean and positive. If there ever was a question about warranty vs. supplemental fuel filtration, this policy should REINFORCE the benefits of improved filtration!


From the looks of things, there has NOT been a solution. It seems that failures are not epidemic, but those who have problems may tend to repeat. This is partly due to the previous policy of only changing verifiable bad injectors, and also due to locally poor fuel quality.


Myself, I have always used additive (emulsifier) and have had secondary filtration on my srelatively clean base fuel since about 30k. I pulled my injectors at 60k (actually had them pulled) and found them serviceable, BUT low on delivery. This is likely due to carbon buildup. Time will tell. There was one leaker, but that may have occured when the line nut was removed. No excessive return flow though...

[More Power]

Thanks for the info, John.

I'm pleased GM understands the problem and is willing to take steps to correct them. As I mentioned in a previous thread, reputation is important - given the competitive nature of the current diesel truck market.

I really doubt GM will revise its official position on auxiliary fuel filtration. If indeed, additional filtration helps the situation, I would expect a change in fuel filter media, size & effectiveness of all future OEM filters (which would then trickle down to suppliers for the existing base of trucks).

MP

[mdrag]

Originally posted by kennedy:
...Curiously small particles are blamed for eroding the ball seat...Who was it that told us we should clean up our fuel, and inspired me to build the Mega kit?...That would be George 'how low can we go' Morrison ;)

Thanks for the great injector news Kennedy!!

[Kennedy]

I know that my stand on filtration isn't going to change.

I don't expect GM to realize the filtration problem, but I DO know a story from a reliable source about testing methods of dumping test "grit" into fuel tanks and subsequently destroying the injectors in VERY short order...

[OC_DMAX]

What might occur as a result of this condition?

Cracks to the fuel injector body or ball seat erosion may exist if the fuel return rate is high. Ball seat erosion is the result of small particles of contamination present in some fuels.

I believe everyone understands the relationships between "ball seat erosion, small particles in the fuel, supplemental filtation, etc." This has been preached by George Morrison and also by articles available from the SAE.

What seems to be ignored here (and on other forums) are the other words in the above question/answer from GM. That has to do with cracks in the injector bodies. What are these cracks from? From my experiences as an engineer, this points towards thermal and/or mechanical stresses outside the design envelope? Or possibly a material process / selection problem? Both would be considered design issues in my book.
There is not much anybody can do about these small defects.

Alan

[More Power]

I spoke with the folks several months ago (who are in charge) about cracked LB7 injector housings. GM was quick to identify the problem, and Bosch was immediately brought in to evaluate it. Bosch (I'm told) changed the design and/or manufacturing method to correct it. All this happened in a short time frame, and I'm told that a somewhat narrow production window was affected.

MP

[Kennedy]

Not yet entirely corrected in 2004 LB7 trucks...

[Jim Cobler]

Where can I read a copy of the service bulletin? I really want to know if it covers my truck so how do you find out?

Thanks,

[Kennedy]

Nick,

The post that you are referring to shows a Q&A page attached to the bulletin. The actual bulletin is copyrighted or I'd have posted it myself.

[Jackmchome]

I visited the lead tech at my Dealer and he pulled up the notification. It will be mailed out to all 2001/02 owners starting June 1. It sez what all of the posts above say.

[Texasoilman44]

Mine crapped out at 51000 on odometer. Crankcase filled up with fuel very quickly and truck was running rough at idle. GM bent over backwards to fix my truck, the ended up replacing all 8 injectors instead of just the bad ones. I am guessing that they were happy to take care of it due to the bulletin talked about here.

Regards,

Kevin

[MaxACL]

John,

I have little to no access to stateside phones. Would you please call Arrow GMC in Mount Holley NJ and remind them to look for this bulliten? They've had my truck for a month and may need to be reminded. I'd really appreciate it.

Mike

Arrow GMC: 609 267-7283

[Kennedy]

Mike,

Call made. Be prepared to argue about the deductible though. These guys aren't very receptive to someone telling them how to do their jobs. They don't work on these much, and have access to all the Special Policy Bulletins etc, yet he insisted the 100k warranty applied etc.

Mentioned injectors coming, had to borrow compression adapter (I need one too) etc.

[gardnerteam]

John - took the number from above and information to my service manager and he cannot find it. Is there anything more to the number, a heading or title, and exactly where can he find it. Just had 8 replaced (1st and only ever warantee work) at 68,000. Story elsewhere in 6600 engine as is makes great reading about Duramax reliability. thanks tom

[Kennedy]

From upper RH corner:

File in section: 06-Engine
Bulletin No: 04039
Date: May 2004


Be sure that he is looking for a service bulletin, and not a recall...

[gardnerteam]

Will give it to him. Thanks again, John!

[MaxACL]

Ditto on the thanks!!!

Mike

[Jomar]

I sure wish our politicians could get along and help each other like like the guys on this web page do. Wouldn`t it be great.
Thanks JK.

Jomar

[txguppy]

Here's a spreadsheet of the affected VIN's
last 8-digits. Sorry Excel did'nt paste correctly. On Edit...

2001 Chevrolet Silverado
FROM THROUGH
1E100028 1E346644
1F100001 1F213872
1Z100015 1Z100019

2001 GMC Sierra
FROM THROUGH
1E100021 1E346642
1F100010 1F213864

2002 Chevrolet Silverado
FROM THROUGH
2E100009 2E306435
2F100004 2F247804


2002 GMC Sierra
FROM THROUGH
2E100003 2E306345
2F100011 2F247974




OOPS did'nt work either. I'll try fixin it later. Fixed, sort of not pretty, but >>>....
:confused: :confused:
txguppy

[ 05-29-2004, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: txguppy ]

[DmaxMaverick]

Thanks, TX

Looks crystal clear on my end. Good job!

[billnourse]

Thanks for the information. I was seriously considering a trade for a CTD because of the injector scare, even though I much prefer my GM. Ford at this time is out of the question.

With this extension of warranty, I will keep enjoying what I have, as it does everything I could ask for.

Regards,

Bill

[saywhat]

Looks like my injectors are covered under the extended warranty according to TXPUPPY post.The thing that really scares me wheather you got a GM,Dodge or Ford is the fact that most dealerships do not have the expertise to fix these engines in a manner that I would feel comfortable with.Trading a truck off for a new one out of fear of a problem that has not arrived yet just does not work for me.Yet when I read some of the post on this site and the problems that a few are having I would not hesitate to trade up just to keep my sanity.The big three need some regional shops where the in depth problems can be addressed more intensely on these diesels by more knowledgeable people.There I said it!

[Jomar]

If you want to print a copy of the entire Service Bulletin it`s on the other Dmax web site.


Jomar

[Kennedy]

I'd have posted it here, but there's the little technicality of copyright. Nice little paragraph stating that it is for Technicians only etc etc.

If it were mine to share...

[flhrciblueice]

GENERAL MOTORS SPECIAL POLICY #04039

Listed below are some anticipated questions and answers to assist in responding to customer inquires.

Q1: What is the condition that prompted a Special Policy?
**: 2001-2002 model year Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra vehicles, equipped with a 6.6L Duramax diesel (RPO LB7) engine, may experience vehicle service engine soon (SES) light illumination, low engine power, hard start, and/or fuel in crankcase, requiring injector replacement, as a result of high fuel return flow rates due to fuel injector body cracks or ball seat erosion.

Q2: What might occur as a result of this condition?
A2: Cracks to the fuel injector body or ball seat erosion may exist if the fuel return rate is high. Ball seat erosion is the result of small particles of contamination present in some fuels.

Q3: What is a "high fuel return flow?"
A3: The Duramax diesel utilizes a common rail fuel injection system, which incorporates fuel re-circulation provisions. A fuel return system normally returns unused fuel from the injectors to the fuel tank. Dealer technical diagnosis procedures include measuring the flow of fuel through the return system, with a specified maximum acceptable flow rate.

Q4: How would a vehicle owner realize the condition exits?
A4: If a customer experiences this issue, their vehicle would display some of the following symptoms: service engine soon light illumination, low power, hard start, and/or fuel in the crank case.

Q5: What can customers do to prevent this issue?
A5: This issue will not occur on all engines. If they experience the previously mentioned symptoms, they should take their vehicle to the dealership for service.

Q6: How is the issue resolved?
A6: If the customer experiences this issue, the dealership will make all necessary repairs to the engine. Dealers have been advised by a technical service bulletin to replace all eight injectors in the event of high fuel return flow diagnosis. This is being done to assure that all injectors prone to body cracks are replaced.

Q7: What is this special policy or warranty?
A7: The special policy is a 7-year/200,000 mile warranty on 2001 and 2002 MY Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickup trucks equipped with Duramax engines, covering the repairs of a high fuel return flow diagnosis.

Q8: Is this special policy related to safety concerns?
A8: This is not a safety issue.

Q9: What is the standard Duramax warranty?
A9: There is a 5-year, 100,000-mile powertrain warranty on Duramax 6.6L V-8 diesel engines.

Q10: Does this policy include 2003 MY vehicles with the Duramax, RPO LB7?
**0: No.

Q11: What happens to a customer with a 2003 vehicle that experiences this problem?
**1: If the customer is within their 5-year/100,000-mile warranty, it will be covered. If the customer is out of warranty, and it is identified as the same issue, we will work with the customer on an individual basis to ensure their satisfaction.

Q12: Are you doing anything for customers who experienced this issue out of warranty?
**2: As part of this policy, GM will offer repair reimbursements to customers who believe they have experienced and repaired this issue on their own. GM's goal is a satisfied customer.

Q13: Does the new Duramax use the same fuel injectors?
**3: No. A new injector is used in the LLY engine.

Q14: How will GM Notify owners of the Special Policy of their vehicles?
**4: GM will send a letter to customers on June 1, 2004.

Q15: Are parts at the dealers, and can owners bring in their vehicles for repair right away?
**5: Yes. Parts are available on a limited basis at dealers.

Q16: What should a customer do if they suspect their vehicle has these fuel injector problems?
**6: If a customer experiences the described performance issue with their vehicle, they should immediately take it to their GM dealer to have the issue diagnosed.

Please contact the GM Dealer Business Center at 1-888-414-6322 (Prompt #3) if you have questions about this message.

[DmaxMaverick]

So much for the

[Kennedy]

I received the above Q?A page in email context, so I do not know if it is copyrighted or not. It was addressed to Service mgr's.

Suffice to say it is NOT the actual bulletin...

[truck_n]

Thanks TheDieselPage!! GM's response to this problem is great to hear!! I've now got 230,000 miles on my truck and prior to 200,000 miles the dealer replaced 16 injectors and I paid and paid and paid. Has anyone got any ideas on getting money back from GM on previously paid for injector parts and labor?? Also, what is the warranty on any new injectors? It used to be 12,000 miles. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you TheDdieselPage for being here. I am sure without the information we are able to share, nothing would have been done about this problem.