View Full Version : 3/8"NPT Plugs on oil filter mount
Has anyone pulled the two 3/8" plugs located on the oil filter mount. I suspect they are for some sort of aux. cooler or bypass filter. I was looking into installing a bypass oil filter that would allow the continued use of the OEM filter but would rather not do any drilling to the valve cover or oil pan for a return line. Thought maybe someone out there would have a service manual that would identify these.
I think your assumption is correct. I believe Amsoil makes one.
LanduytG
01-04-2003, 16:23
a bear
Just go to this link and lok at the Amsoil BMK-17. No muss no fuss installation.
http://www.thedieselpage.com/newprod.htm
Greg
Sorry if I misled anyone with my question. The ports I was refering to is the ports that are plugged off right on the stock oil filter mount. I wanted to continue using the OEM filter with a single remote bypass filter if these ports will provide this kind of service. Im not sure if these plugs will drain oil or coolant.(have never pulled one) Could be flush ports for the internal oil cooler.
dieselburb
01-04-2003, 23:47
I'm pretty sure you're correct, but I used one of them to install the oil temp gauge. They all are oil related, as I think the oil cooler on the truck uses air, not coolant.
Good question A_Bear. I have always wondered what those bolts are for. I have exactly the same goal as you; to continue to use the OEM filter location for the full-flow filter and to attach a single stage remote bypass filter(without tapping holes into the oil pan or valve cover, etc). On the Ford Powerstroke engines, they have both an oil supply tap and a return path to the oil pan already tapped into the block. A friend of mine has a Powerstroke with a single remote bypass filter installed and it is a really good, clean and simple set-up. You are correct in that the engine oil cooler is located right next to the oil filter. The oil cooler is a liquid to liquid type. It uses the radiator fluid to cool the oil.
a bear and OC_DMAX,
I also have been trying to determine a clean way to add a remote bypass filter and still use the OEM Full Flow filter in the stock location. The bypass I would like to use is the OilGuard (www.OilGuard.com). The last time I did an oil change I noticed that the small plug on the right side of the filter taps into the oil that is feeding the full flow filter. I didn’t see the large plug on the other side of the filter housing until later but since it’s part of the oil filter adapter housing, it will probably be a pressurized port. The small plug on the right would seem like a good place to pick up an input for the bypass. But as you pointed out, it would be nice to avoid tapping a hole in the valve cover or oil pan for the return. Two other possibilities I’ve thought about are 1) feed oil back through a fitting placed on the oil fill tube or 2) use an oil filter sandwich adapter to tap oil flow (these are intended for adding an oil cooler). My concern with the using the oil fill tube is that it would be hard to get a hose to it. Likewise I have reservations about the sandwich adapter o-rings being able to handle the Duramax’s high oil pressure. I’m still undecided… :rolleyes:
Bill and Tom,
Just for info, in your spare time go to the website: www.bobistheoilguy.com and enter the oil forums.
Bill, I know you were evaluating various oil filters for the DMAX and there are a lot of discussions there about different filter manufactures (though mostly related to gas engines, not diesel), . They also have a number of posts about remote bypass filters. If either of you are interested in oil analysis, there are new posts there everyday. I have found the site to be very educational with regard to the lubrication field as a whole (and am learning more every day!).
Of all the places to return the filtered oil to, my preference was also the oil filler tube. However, it seemed like a nightmare to get the return oil up there. I am still waiting for the optimal solution.
Regards,
Alan
OC_DMAX, Thanks for the link to [url]www.bobistheoilguy.com
jbplock, I don't know if that location would be wise to take oil from. You would be bleeding oil pressure off the feed for the turbo. Depending on the size of the hole created (through whatever size fittings and lines, and flow rate of filter) you could be seriously lowering oil pressure to the turbo bearings.
I really don't know, but I would want to know more before doing that. I still probably wouldn't.
My .02 opinion.
Steve
On edit: I didn't know there was a plug there. Would be neat for one more guage. When I was an owner/operator I had a turbo oil pressure guage on my 1693 Cat.
[ 01-06-2003: Message edited by: YZF1R ]</p>
FirstDiesel
01-06-2003, 18:55
I was thinking the same thing. No way would I take an oil feed from the line providing oil to my turbo!!
Good point about the potential for turbo oil pressure drop
With respect to tapping into the oil system, isn't the entire oil system under pressure? The same pressure? I'm far from being an expert in this area of discussion, but a pressurized system is just that. And even if you were to tap into a line that is being routed to the turbo bearings, I don't necessarily know that it will negatively impact the turbo.
Thanks to all far the input.
OC_DMAX, Thanks for the info. on the web sight. Very informative.
Bill, I too would have my reservations about taking flow from the turbo oil feed line. I don't think I would have piece of mind doing so. At my next oil change I plan on taking a day to find plugs common with the oil pan (for return line) by applying a couple ounces of air pressure to the oil fill tube. I have a feeling one of the plugs on the oil filter mount or engine base will accomplish this. As far as the oil feed I will use one of the pressurized ports on the oil filter mount upstream of the full flow filter. My reason for doing this is to gain added benefit by reducing the amount of oil that bypasses the full flow filter through the 14 psi. diff. relief valve when the oil is cold. This location should also allow the engine to maintain full oil pressure. What few larger particles the bypass filter catches would only add to its filtering efficiency.
I too am interested in the oil guard filter. I like the filtering media design and being able to see what its catching. Not to mention the lower cost of the elements. The DMAX should never see a system working pressure of 150# but I would be curious to know if 150# is the safe working pressure or the burst pressure of this filter. If this is the safe working pressure then burst pressure should be approx. 2 1/2 times this or 375#. Also I plan on using SS oil service hoses and isolation valves on engine feed and return ports.(Just for added safety) :D
I spoke with Mark at Oilguard today and it turns out he was referring to the Dodge Cummins when he said they tap the turbo feed line for their bypass installation.
However they also have an installation kit for the Duramax that sounds promising. Their kit taps the pressurized oil from the fitting on the oil filter adapter and returns filtered oil through the oil drain using a special fitting that fits the oil drain plug (anyone interested in a slightly used Fumato drain valve?). He said the kit includes Parker (or Weatherhead) hose and field replaceable hydraulic type fittings - no hose clamps. If I understand correctly, the hose connecting to the drain plug fitting has a swivel so when its time to change the oil you just remove the hose. Seems like this return should work ok (unless A BEAR finds a better one with his clever compressed air test). I also asked Mark about the Oilguard max pressure rating and he said the 150psi is a max continuous rating with a peak rating of 300 psi. So, given all that, I've decided to try one on my truck and will post results of the install when completed.
A BEAR,
I'm also curious about the isolation valves you referred to (?) Could you explain how they work and where you get them? Are they one-way check valves? Thanks!
[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: jbplock ]</p>
Bill, I too was considering the oil pan plug adapter for the filtered oil return line. This is my 2nd choice due to having the Fumoto drain valve myself. If I can't locate a close and easy location for return flow I will also use the pan drain. The isolation valves I was refering to would be small 1/4" parker shut off valves that would be hard piped to the oil feed and return points on the engine just in case the filter becomes damaged, has a lost or leaking seal, etc. Just gives me good piece of mind while on the road.
By the way we use the Parker hoses on our engines offshore. They have braided SS on the outside and handle vibration well. They are very long lasting and will not blow out.
Tommy,
Good idea regarding the valves… are the ones you are referring to 1/4 turn ball valves? I was also thinking that when using the oil drain as return, the bypass filter should be mounted above the oil level in the pan to prevent drain back into the filter when the engine isn’t running.
[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: jbplock ]</p>
FirstDiesel
01-07-2003, 19:02
RV Guy
Yes the whole system is under pressure but if the line to the turbo is sized to provide a certain amount of oil and you tap it and take oil away????
Are you going to provide enough oil to the turbo. Maybe but not in my truck. smile.gif
Bill and Tommy,
A question about the oil pressure inside the bypass filter; don't most bypass filter assemblies include an orifice (or restriction) on the supply line or adapter that limits the flow into the bypass filter to a very small amount? If that is the situation and your return line goes to the oil pan (which is not under pressure), would it not be the case that the actual pressure within bypass filter is a fairly low amount (much less than what the full flow filter is exposed to)?
(my assumption in the above statement is that the pressure drop across the bypass filter is fairly low.)
I have read about several people on the other website (listed above) that had plumbed the return line to a "special tapped" oil drain plug. Somehow, I would feel uncomfortable with that setup.
Tommy, keep looking for another alternative! I have gone through the Helm Silverado service manuals over the weekend and have found no indication yet as to what those extra bolts are for. The service manuals are in excess of 5000 pages and it is sometimes difficult to locate things. So I may have missed some info. Also, the manuals are more slanted to servicing the engine (remove this bolt to replace this part) versus an in-depth theory of operation description.
I would be comfortable with tapping into an oil supply source next to the full-flow filter. You are most likely seeing the entire flow rate that the oil pump produces and taking a very small fractional amount of oil to the bypass filter. Tapping into an oil supply line going only to the turbo seems a little risky. You most likely are seeing only a small portion of the actual oil flow that the oil pump produces at that point and would be taking part of this oil to the bypass filter. In which case you may be short changing the turbo some of the oil flow it requires. Just the way my mind is thinking at the moment (right or wrong I don't know!!)
Alan
[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: OC_DMAX ]
[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: OC_DMAX ]</p>
Larry, I agree 100% with not using the turbo line for the exact reason you stated.
Alan, You are absolutely right. If the orfice is located on the upstream side you should never see pressure on the filter. I guess its just a little added insurance to know the filter is rated high enough just in case the filter flow starts getting restricted.
Bill, The operation of the valves really wouldn't matter. Just so the pressure and temp ratings are OK. I plan on using the smallest 1/4" valves possible. I would be real carefull not to hang too many fittings off of the oil pan though. I plan on exhausting all my options before thinking about the oil pan. I'm not sure I would be at ease putting it there.
I almost forgot to mention that by taking oil feed from upstream of the OEM filter you would still be using the OEM filter anti drain back valve that would keep the engine primed with oil. Going down stream could allow oil to drain back from the engine through the bypass filter. I'm not sure if there is a valve built in from the factory but still again two are better than one. Maybe the filter has a pressure cracking check valve to prevent this. It would surely be a plus.
Bill, I dont think oil will back flow from the pan through the filter due to the filter and lines being fluid packed above the level of the oil in the pan. Even so it is still a good idea to mount the filter up and out of harms way.
I think the pressure on the bypass filter and subsequent pressure drop across it will depend on where the orifice is located. I haven't seen the oil-guard up close yet but if it's similar to the Baldwin B50 bypass I used on my 98 6.5, the orifice will be in the outlet of the filter. If so, this will put full pressure on the filter element, which I think you need to get oil flowing through the dense media. This also puts full pressure on the O-ring that seals the canister to the filter base. Won't know for sure until I get the filter in my hands.
I'm also a little uneasy about using the oil drain as a return but I'm willing to hook it up and see how it looks. It's easy to remove if it doesn't provide a good secure installation.
Bill,
Was just wondering if you finished the installation of the oil bypass filter. I saw the modified pan drain plug on Oil Guard's updated site. Looks a lot better than I imagined (real close coupled). They also have a new sample connector to obtain oil samples. I am still waiting for my next oil change to identify the plugs on the OEM filter mount, unless a window opportunity presents itself before hand. :eek:
FYI, there is a 3/4" oil return port (that will then go thru the filter) on the top side of the oil filter housing, you can see it thru the drivers side wheelwell (you will have to push the liner up a little bit). It is a 11mm (IIRC...)hex plug, and it is quite the feat to get it out. I broke a 1/2" breaker bar (with a 4' piece of pipe on it!) trying to get that plug out! I originally had my preluber return to that port, but it was WAY too noisy and I returned the whole thing.
Scott
SDWA,
Thanks, I will check it out.
Tommy,
I decided not to go with the OilGuard (long story) so I’m kind of back to the drawing board. Currently I’m hoping a sandwich adapter for the full flow filter will become available.
I also stumbled onto another interesting filter. Donaldson has a line of hydraulic filters that are rated less than 2 microns absolute with a working pressure rating of 500psi (lots of margin). Their trade name is even “Duramax”. Checkout the HMK04 model on the following link: www.donaldson.com/en/ih/medium/index.html . I haven’t checked the price yet so I don’t know for sure if they would be practical.
Keep in mind when playing with the oiling system, that it takes differential pressure to move the oil through a bypass filter and you may not get enough differential when returning to a pressurized passage.
Also, if you return to a non pressurized passage, any oil passed will count towards a drop in pressure. Not that we are low on psi or anything, just food for thought...
Lone Eagle
02-03-2003, 20:13
I was wondering how long you were going to let this go on John. Later! Lone Eagle
John,
Appreciate the info. I'm fully aware of the pressure drop needed to move the oil through the bypass filter and the resulting (possible, minimal)subsequent decrease in oil pressure. Will be looking for a convienant non pressurized port at my next oil change for oil returns to the base. I plan on using a 40/1000 orfice feed and should realize near to nothing in pressure drop. My neighbor has the 2003 DMAX and the oil pressure is 15-20 psi below my 2002. Out of concern he checked on this and it appears that GM lowered the pressure for 2003 anyway. The DMAX gang needs to stay away from those beer cans some manufacterers call oil filters. :rolleyes:
Speaking of beer, Got to go!
Bill Plock,
Here's a sight you may want to check. These filters are presently being used by PSD, DMAX and Cummins. Talked to one person locally who had one on the PSD and he loved it. Said it actually cleaned existing dirty oil when he installed it. It also has a very high working pressure with outstanding dirt/water retention. Here I go again!
http://www.filtrationsolutionsww.com
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