Attn: sdaver RE Stacking boxes

[StevePala]

sdaver:

You had a question about my Juice hot box and the PPE computer upgrade. That being how they work togather. Let me state, I first had the straight juice, it worked fine and was an excellent improvement. The truck would really move, but it wasn't what I hoped for. Then Hot juice appeared, it's good but I still felt acceleration could be better. I thought that with all this extra HP I would be changing tires once a month. Still have the same tires. Then I upgraded the computer with PPE's race program. Things started to get interesting, that little increase in RPM made a big differance on my truck not to mention the added fuel and timing.

At first I stacked the original version of hot juice on the PPE, my interest was captured once again. With My boost gauge setup(all trucks are different) it would max out at an indicated 25-26 pounds with the hot juice Or the PPE upgrade. Stacked, the boost would max around 28 pounds and gets there much faster.

Just today I got back my hot juice with the newest version. Put it in(stacked with PPE), truck was already warm, drove to the usual spot, turned the corner, road was dry, got straight, going about 10mph, Nailed it. Holy Sh*T, tires just spun through the gears, second and third, Black posi strips and smoke in the rear view. I better back off to get traction. Next, I ease into it, it really goes, never saw the boost gauge move so fast. Time for a full stop and go. Pedal to the floor and NO Brakes, tires just spun through the gears to third, better stop before I break something.

This truck has NEVER acted like this, until it got stacked.

Next adventure, first tranny upgrades and then more power. I talked to the guys at PPE about a custom program, more fuel and less timing. I think that between the two being stacked, the timing is at the upper end of limits. A little less would be better in this application. Also talked to BullyDog about propane today. It sounds Fun. They also told me about the 210RWHP box they have, sound interesting, get rid of the juice and stack that on the PPE upgrade. But first the tranny upgrades. For now, I think it's going to be time for new tires. Time will tell.

Sdaver, to make it short, it works awsome on My truck, no slippage yet, and the EGTs are still low and no one can tell me differently. The stack definatly has more power then the single units, how much I don't know. But on my truck there is a big difference. Don't let guys say, you'll be happy with 120HP like they did to me.
Because I wasn't, your not because you asked how it stacks, and they're stacking to. Just Do It.

Hope this answers your questions about the stack, If not, I can email you my number.

Steve

[TraceF]

This very interesting to me. Please keep posting updates on this thread, I am saving a link to it. Thanks

[REC06]

I have the duramaximiser and the regular juice stacked now. I am waiting for the ppe program to arrive. I can limp mine if I am not carefull but man the truck does fly. I don't get much black smoke either, just a good puff when I mash it. Tires will spin thur 3rd. Dont know if I'll keep the juice on when the ppe comes in. I don't feel the tranny can handle it. Hope to be able to du the tranny upgrades in the next year. Can't wait for ppe's programmer. I'll let you know. :D

[D/A]

Wow sounds good got the hot juice what else do I need to get the takeoff???? What else is needed do not have Tranie upgrades are they really needed? I love everything expect for the defueling

[sdaver]

HEY STEVE P THANKS FOR THE INFO..........I MAY TRY SOME CAREFUL STACKING OF THE PREDATOR AND HOT JUICE................MAYBE WE COULD COMPARE NOTES.......GET YA A GTECH FOR $89.00 ON EBAY IT WILL AT LEAST GIVE YOU A BASELINE OTHER THAN THE LONG BLACK TIRE MARKS.........HOW THE MOTOR SOUND WITH THE TWO STACKED........AND WHICH REFLASH DID YOU USE?...........DEFUEL MORE OR LESS
IM WITH TRACE THIS IS GETTIN REAL INTERESTING :D DAVE

[TraceF]

REC06-

When you stack these programmers do you see any negatives? Is the computer dealing with all of the potentially conflicting data input? Any trouble codes?

I am leaning towards hot juice and a VSS module to adjust for tire size. With the Amsoil filter and 4" exhaust I want to see what I got there before trying to "stack".

Gonna get me a GTech to see what real gains I get.

[sdaver]

STEVEP WITH THE HOT JUICE AND THE WASTE GAGE PLUGGED AND MY AFE STAGE 2 IM SEEING PEAK BOOST AROUND 34 PSI AND 1200 DEGREES EGT WITH INCOMING AIR TEMPS AROUND 45 DEGREES......WITH NO BRAKE I HAVE LITE SPIN IN 1 AND 2 WITH A CHIRP IN 3 A LITTLE BRAKE AND BOOST AND THINGS GET UGLY QUICK..... :D DAVE

[Toddster]

Hey neighbor ! We gotta hook up sometime, been very interested in this PPE thing for a while now. I think you wanted to see my tires a while back (I think It Was you).....I e-mailed you a couple of times and never heard back.....Anyway, shoot me another e-mail, if this snow ever stops we can hook up for a cold beer and some hot tires ! :eek:

[RWTD]

I want to inform everyone that you should never "stack" 2 pcm modifiers together.

Each has their own way of data configurations in the pcm (Predator, Powerloader, Superchips, Hypertech), or manipulating the data feed (Juice), and if you try and merge any together you'll probably render the pcm useless, or you could double up on certain areas, while then other areas may not then be properly configed for that situation. This will be harmful to your vehicle.

Please, NEVER do this! It is not worth even trying.

[ 01-03-2003: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>

[sdaver]

WHAT YOUR SAYING MAKES A LOT OF SENSE...........CONSIDER ME WARNED.......COME ON UPS........... :D DAVE
PS STEVEP DROP ME A NUMBER

[ 01-03-2003: Message edited by: sdaver ]</p>

[SoCalDMAX]

StevePala,

Are you getting any indications that you have too much timing with the 2 mods?

I don't understand how you're able to put so much power down without getting a tranny slip/limp condition. Assuming production tolerances are pretty good, there shouldn't be too much variation between the power handling capabilities of different Allison trannies.

I'm using Juice and propane, and can easily make it slip on the 4-5 shift if I don't carefully feather the throttle. If towing on a hill, level 2 and propane can do it, if racing unloaded on level ground, level 4 and propane will make it slip.

Based on comments from the PPE camp, 120hp was selected as the top tune due to tranny limitations. "Hot" juice is maxed out at 120hp for the same reason. I don't see how stacking 2 fueling modules is going to allow more power to get to the ground if the tranny is the limiting factor.

Can you try and make some track runs or borrow a GTech Pro so we can see actual numbers? Once tires break loose, it's pretty easy to keep them spinning. The hard part is launching with max power that doesn't result in wheelspin... Lord knows I'm not any good at it. :D

Regards, Steve

[mtomac]

4wd takes care of traction problems

[mackin]

RWTD


No stacking??HUH???? It's been done since there were two mods avail for the MAX.....Some with success....

Would you like to elaborate further??? My HOT Juice box,is my program in my truck,consider it bolted in,if these mods can't play together nicely,we know who's getting the boot....

MAC




I drove my truck MOD LESS the other day,first time in all most a YEAR,sorry stock Duramaxers,but eeewwww!!!! You have no idea what your missing....I have to do it one more time next week,I believe, but I ain't drivin,I'll ride shot gun..... :D

[ 01-03-2003: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[sdaver]

HEY MICHAEL,
DOES YOURS FEEL LIKE IT JUMPS ABOUT 2 FEET SIDEWAYS........THEN SQUEALS THE TIRES THE LENGTH OF THE TRACK......WHEN YOU LAUNCH IN 4WD.........MINE DID NOT INITIALLY BUT DOES NOW I THINK THE ADDITIONAL TORQUE FROM HOT JUICE IS MORE THAN THE TIE RODS CAN STAND AND THEY FLEX CAUSING THE SITUATION ABOVE.........WHAT DO YOU THINK? :D DAVE

[mtomac]

Stock 245 stones with 50psi in frt & 40psi rear. I don't launch above 10psi to prevent bouncing the front tires. I can get 1.9X 60' times all day long this way. I also have an open rear diff which doesn't help traction, but I ordered it that way for towing not drag racing. I'm waiting for Eaton to offer an E-locker in the 11.5" rear end. Right now they have one available for our front diff and for the 10.5" rear end.

[Mark A]

I've had the juice and the tts reflash for over a month now and have had no problems and the truck runs like a raped ape! I have the waste gate pluged and i see boost levels (pre-intercooler) as high as 35psi. I just need a bigger exhaust to drop the EGT's on wide open runs. To give an example of how quick it is, i can beat my buddys 00' mustang GT from a roll or dead stop and it runs 8.80's in the 1/8th.

[mtomac]

WOW 35psi, I haven't plugged the wastegate but with the HOT Juice I'm only running 24-25psi (taken from the line that feeds the wastegate)

[StevePala]

Sdaver

How did you plug you waste gate?

Steve

[imported_]

do it with a set of vise grips and cardboard. BTW IMHO a boost reading pre intercooler is pretty useless and dangerous if you mod the w'gate.
Turbo overspeeding etc.
The reason for this is boost stacking up in the intake manifold and pressure drop across the intercooler core.
But to each their own i guess

[CPMac632]

You can also buy a 2 dollar turnbuckle at the hardware store and use it to buckle the actuator on the wastegate closed. I have seen over 40 psi this way with one box.

[turbo6600]

StevePala: do you have a 02 or an 03 truck And do you have the tech IV Programmer or will it not work when stacking them or do you know? You have my wheels turning on upgrading my Computer Thanks in advance Turbo6600 :rolleyes:

[sdaver]

stevep
installed a small ball valve in the line going to the wastegate valve off gate plugged valve on normal

michaelt
305's (40PSI) rear locker and 7300lbs mine does not bounce it just does as described in 4wd

mikea juice on what level.......ever went limp on 4-5 shift?

to all interested more boost more power lower egts..........mine will not limp as easy in 4 to 5 shift with wastegate normal but with blocked its definitly easier.......hence more power....egts 100 degrees....JMHO :D DAVE

[StevePala]

Turbo6600

It's an 02 and a tech 4.

sdaver

How much better is it with the waste gate pluged?

Socal

It sounds like the timing is to advanced, more noise.
The two boxes stacked Don't total 120+120=240HP. But it's better then a single unit on my truck.
The trans has never gone limp, but sometimes I can feel it slip. I don't tow with the truck, it's just for fun.

[sdaver]

try it and see i also have afe stage 2 i think it also contributes.......dave

[TraceF]

What's a Tech 4?

I tried several searches but got O.

Maybe the search thingie isn't working.

Thanks

[mackin]

TraceF

=&gt;http://www.pacificp.com/cgi-bin/cat/DU-PCM-3P.html
MAC :D

Steve are you running the Duramaximizer too???? Or just the relashed PCM-handheld???

[ 01-04-2003: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[TraceF]

Thanks Mac.

I went back to ScCalDMax 's thread "Here it is- power box summary" and didn't see Tech 4.

Is this PPE's SUPER Duramaximizer? I can't see from my quick read how they differ except from the power levels achieved. It does adjust for tire size though.

Also can't tell if it can be removed for warranty work.

RunninWithDevil says never stack boxes but PPE says good to go with the Duramaximizer.

This is all confusing to me. Seems the more I read- the less I realize I know.

[ 01-04-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]</p>

[AzKevin]

I thought RWTD was trying to say that stacking two PCM performance upgrades is potentially dangerous because it's possible to overwrite each other's program space.

[mackin]

Tracy

Tech IV is the handheld 3 or 1 level only pcm programer.....Duramaximizer is or can be added to it,externally,connects in the engine compartment and also has an in cabin dial..This mod bumps up fuel pressure......No The reflash (tech IV) cannot be removed but only set in the lowest level, if you buy the switched handheld one, and hide the switch or disconnect, good luck.....The Duramaximizer could be removed.....There are other ways and other products which are a lot easier that remove quickly, if secrecy is your goal as is with most,to avoid unjustified hassles at the dealer .....

Stacking to "direct" PCM loaders (programers) I could see, but RWTD was a bit vague.....

MAC :D

[ 01-04-2003: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[TraceF]

Certainly wasn't trying to misrepresent what RWTD said. Up the page he says- "Please, NEVER do this! It is not worth even trying."

Thanks for the info.

[mackin]

Tracy

You know I just read your SIG and line number 9 makes me think DUDE line 10 is self explanitory,enjoying yourself, I'll bet .....
Your thinking is right on my level !!!!! LOL

You should meet chevyhdman and me sometime,I think you would fit right in,like a sock on a three toe'd chicken,purfect !!!!!! To bad your way down in Florida soaking up the sun while we're here shoveling and freezing.....Bet your envious???

MAC