power max installed

[king D]

just got my power max installed today,however it is raining so hard that i really dont know exactly what it has to offer yet.however initial setup and impressions great kit took like 5 minutes to install,i did not hook up the pyro cause i have 1 already.the boost is read through internal monitors,it was reading a little off of my pyro but only about 3psi.the roads were wet and in 4x4 it would spin the front tires on every shift.just hitting it,not building up boost it seems to have a bit less bottom end than a hot juice or a van aaken ,however it feels like that shortcoming on bottom end is made up for very shortly after hitting second gear.i will post more when i get some dry pavemant,but all in all i like what i saw today.jess

[DmaxCC6spd]

Looked at their website. They claim 140HP and 360 TQ. Seems a bit extreme. I would like to see some independent dyno runs for this.

[Burner]

They do claim 140Hp and 350ft lbs. of Tq with both Hp and Tq adjusted to level 9 of 9. Here is the big question. They state that Hp should be regulated to 4 and torque to 3. Anything other than that will smoke the transmission. It is also stated that their system blends with the Allison so that if "slippage" occurs it will back down on the power. How can you "truck-up" the transmission if the safety features are in place? I don't recall the 90 hp juice saying anything about trashing the trans? Maybe that's why JK is so much in favor of the JUICE? I really like the Powermax system. I'm picking at it to find it's weak spot. Actually I would have most likely purchased it if it did not have a top speed limiter. ;)

Burner---> :D :D

[king D]

i talked with the guys at tst about power levels and torque enhancement,and got a feeling that the recommended power levels were on the safe side.they felt that power and torque on 9 would limp the tranny in a flash,it did not yesterday but the roads were wet.i hope to try it out a little more today andget some more feel and maybe a few numbers .....jess

[a64pilot]

King,
Had mine about a mounth now. Haven't limped the tranny yet, I have only rarely used 9&9. I drive around on power level 5 and tq 3, any higher and the cruise is unstable.
Dmax,
I agree. I too would like to see independant tests. Really would like to see a head to head between TST and the Juice.
King, BTW try the TST pyrometer, due to it's small size it should offer less restriction and it's response time is faster than any other pyro that I have seen before. Really is almost as fast as those put in a turbine engine. :D

[Dave S]

A64pilot,
1)Please elaborate "I drive around on power level 5 and tq 3, any higher and the cruise is unstable"

2)In terms of driveability, can you describe the differences between adjusting the power level and torque levels or in other words how did you decide power level 5 and torque level 3 worked best for your particular application?

3)Without limping the trans how do you judge when "enough is enough"?

4)Have you towed with it?????

5)How was mileage affected?

Thanks Dave

[king D]

had alittle play time with the max this morning,ran a 0-60 with a 1500 rpm launch and got there in 5.83sec turned around and ran it in 5.77 sec.this was in power level 9 nd torgue on 6.i will try the pyro probe when and if i decide to keep the max.as to far as the cruise being affected tst reccommends not haveing total levels adding up to more than 8 and when this happens a problem with the cruise being erradic could arise .i have not experienced this problem yet and for normal driving i ride on 5 and 5.i have had a situation in which i smacked it on 9and9 and once i let off and slowed down the truck had a loopy idle until i patted the go pedal,cleared right up.tst said to try to change the fuel filter,not had a chance to do it yet.but so far i really like it,jess

[a64pilot]

Dave,
1. It makes the go pedal very sensitive. Barely mash the pedal and get quite a lot of acceleration. I assume it is this sensitivity that causes the cruise to oscillate around it's set point. I.E. it slowly exceeds the set point and backs off slowly below the set point. Acts as if you are on rolling terrain etc. For me the sum of tq. enhancement and power ,if it exceeds a total of 8 the cruise begins to slowly oscillate around the set point. Pretty much just as TST says.
2. "Torque enhancement" is the amount of additional fuel added between 1300 and 2000 rpm. I won't argue whether it increases Tq. or HorsePower. So I say it increases power. I believe that the tranny is more sensitive to additional power at lower RPM. I know that the sum of Tq. enhancement and Power enhancement need not exceed a total of 8 because I travel 1000 miles a week and use cruise a lot. I want to leave the settings static to allow the adaptive tranny a chance to learn the new power-throttle curve. Power level 5 gives me all the acceleration I want. Unscientific I know but it is how I arrived at these settings. I believe the weight of the truck has a lot to do with the cruise sensitivity. BTW it is hardly noticable.
3. When you are happy I guess. I like a little safety margin, I don't want to operate just shy of the limp point. I believe if you do that point will eventually come sooner and sooner. I.E. accelerated tranny wear may be occuring eventhough it hasen't gone into limp mode. If you believe their claim then I am making almost 100 Hp more than a Z06 vette with a Diesel pickup truck at a setting of 9&9. I don't need that, but it is always there at the touch of a button. You can change the power settings at any time. No programming etc. and the current setting is displayed digitally on the remote display.
3. I have not yet towed with it. But I believe that will be the TST's strong point. The ability to "pump" up the mid range power without increasing the max and it's EGT monitoring so that you cannot over-temp the engine will be key for towing.
I also think that 10 different power settings and 10 different Tq. settings will allow you to tune the box to your truck and it's load under different envinromental conditions.
5. Initially I got almost a 2 MPG improvement to about 18.5. Lately though it has fallen back to about 16.7. Exactly the same as before. I thought I would see a little increase due to the advanced timing. I am playing with it from time to time so that is probably why I have seen no increase.
I think that the initial increase may have been because I think that the tranny was shifting early until it relearned. BTW the mileage figures are cumulative over a couple of thousand miles so I believe them to be pretty accurate.
Hope this helps.
So far it has done everything that I wanted it to. The pyrometer was a pleasant surprise. It is actually better than My SPA was and I considered the SPA to be the best there is. I believe that it's boost may be reported as being a little different because it uses the trucks sensor and "picks" the boost signal off the trucks Mux Bus. It should be reporting actual intake manifold pressure and not the turbo sense line pressure that most of us tap into for pressure readings.

[Burner]

64,

I have yet to call TST on their application. From what I read about the Allison it seems as though the 1000 series does not want more than 520 ft lbs of torque before 2,200 RPM. If the engine will be pushing more than that before 2,200 RPM they change the pump and lower the ratios. Basicly they go to a 2000 series and then a 2400 series. All three transmissions have the same housing and use the same mounts as well as electronics. I wonder if TST could reconfigure the torque management so that it would begin it's application after 2,000 RPM? That would still give us the 800 RPM range as the 1,300 to 2,000 they have now. When I have more time, I will call and inquire.

Burner -------> :D :D

[Kennedy]

I've had one here for a couple of weeks, but I forgot it last time I went to the dyno. I would have thought that they could have come up with a different case rather than the same one that VA uses :rolleyes:

As for TQ, I have dyno sheets of over 800 lb/ft at 2200rpm, and WELL over 500 lb/ft at 1800rpm. It's not so much the amount of TQ, but the application. It is hard to describe, but as Sdaver will attest, some boxes with less torque will slip the trans easier than one with more TQ. This is a trick that Edge has mastered, and I will not even pretend to know how...

[sdaver]

I think that edge has a presribed defuel for a percentage of slip and its updated very fast and precise........whereas with the tst ( which I have not tried ) its a dialed value in the torque control........edges hot juice seems to be the master of torque management. I would love to see a head to head test with both units and maybe a tts reflash :D dave

[ 04-09-2003: Message edited by: sdaver ]

[ 04-11-2003: Message edited by: sdaver ]</p>

[KompressorMan]

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the day before your "box" is delivered, it starts raining and won't let up for a solid month?
Herb :D

[king D]

kompressorman i feel you on that rain thing i farm and am so far behind i may soon have to try and find a job.one thing i have found in only o short time is that the max doesnt seem to stack well with others,i guess it is maxing out the limits already but propane only adss minute gains and a pressure style box totally slowed the max down by over a second,sounded like ithe defuel and shift points got screwed.as for a shead to head between the max and the hot juice and the feflash and lets not leave out the van aaken,for what i have seen the max appears to have a little more and smoother power than a hot juice or a van aaken,i do not however have a reflash but my brother has a ppe version with a maxamizer and is somewhat more powerful/faster than mine.dave i would try a duramaxamizer if it does for you r truck what it did formy brothers i think you will be very happy.i think i am the most impressed with the reflash and maxamizer and the only reason i still through the chips for what the reflash offers with the maxamizer is that i dont want to have to send my comp back to get the program taken out should a trip to the dealer should arise for non related problems,however i may end up there any way,i hope when the tranny gets fixed which looks like sooner than later know,i am sure all the products will need to be tested again b/c of the way they will react to a non slipping tranny,dave give that maxamizer a thought,i have a type one van aakeen that i would be glad to send you to stack with your reflash ,it does about the sameas a maxamizer and is easier to install.if you want totryit shoot me you adrress and ill get it out to you....jess

[a64pilot]

Burner,
Go to TST's site and look at their Dyno charts. It would appear that by leaving
tq enhancement off you significantly delay the Tq. increase until higher RPM.
I DO NOT want to get into a Horsepower/Torque discussion with anyone ( I'm not smart enough and will immedately concede defeat) but it is my opinion that the two are interrelated and it is not reasonable to be able to make significant increases of one without affecting the other as well. As long as no mechanicals are changed I.E. compression ratio valve size or lift or timing etc.
I am sure that the added fuel could be delayed until after 2000 RPM or any other RPM. It would be a simple matter of programming. IMHO that would be a hot-rod tune and would be of little use in towing. I am sure though to maximize this box or most others for towing a transmission upgrade will be required. Before going down that road I am waiting for a little more R&D to be done by more people.
I believe that no box is perfect, that will never happen as what is perfect for you may not be for me. The reason that I went with the TST is because of it's apparent flexability and safety.
If you are familar with Python performance's VCN-2000 nitrous kit, I put it on my Wifes 02 SS Camaro for exactly the same reasons.
The reason I bring up the nitrous kit for spark ignition engines is I believe that there is a very close parallel to them and these "fuel boxes" for a diesel. Screw up and not monitor either one and the damage done will be very similar for very similar reasons.
Both the Venom nitrous and the Powermax are self monitoring and will not allow me to damage the engine.

[Jelisfc]

It sounds to me like a lot of the low end power debate leads back to the Allison trans. Having a 6 spd makes the powermax an obvious choice. A manual clutch normally isn't effected by rpm. I bring this up because of others looking for a stonger manual clutch. We could be in the same boat at lower rpms if a Centerforce clutch is released. The need for max clutch force at low rpms is food for thought on future upgrades.

[king D]

just a little food for thought...my max is on the way back to tst for competition reprogramming,supposedly the knew programs 4and 4 will equall 9and 9 on the standard box..i will let you know when i get it back but only after the upgraded tranny is installed....jess

[a64pilot]

King,
How high are you going to let the EGT's go?
Or a better question, what are you doing to keep them down. Who is upgrading the tranny for you?
Please let us know how the upgraded tranny works and the new programming.
P.S. I can assume you like it and are keeping it now.

[heartbeatcanada]

King D

Are you going with ATS upgrade for the tranny? I have been thinking about it, but didn't want to be the first one without anybody elses input(don't have the kahunes).Hopefully somebody has some feed back as the truck pulling is coming up and want to put some serious power to the ground. Gotta show the F*rd and D*dge boys who's king :cool:

[king D]

as of right know the egts are below 1050 post turbo,when i get the max back i am going to install their pyro end so i can control maximum egt,however right know i really dont think that post turbo the max is hotter than any of the other chips...haveing said that the tranny is probally gonna be a suncoast because that is what i ran in my dodge however john kennedey is trying to set an ats install for me in my area,i am just waiting for him to get his installed and let us all know if it does the job.if the ats holds and mr jk can get me a tranny before suncoast i am there.the power max will not go back on the truck until the tranny is fixed.as far as keeping the max i am not 100percent sure ,it still has a loopy idle after you get on it hard and then get off.i will see what happensif it works great i will keep it and run it full time b/c it does have more tuning choices than a van aaken however i am gonna put one of those big QUADZILLA POWER van aaken up beside it and the best one woll be used for competition and the other will be used for every day driving,or there may be a new product that comes along and blows them all away.also i hope that shooting some nos in the mix will help the fuel burn better thus lower egts significantly...only time will tell,but i got my slicks in today and when the tranny comes in i will be all over this board letting people know how it works for me....jess

[Kennedy]

Lopey idle? Sounds like a fuel rail psi issue. I thought they weren't altering it?

I'm anxious to see what Suncoast has as well. I've been hoping to find a good deal on another Allison and have them do it up for me. That way I can keep the ATS stuff in my current trans. Hoping to have the ATS stg 2 here Saturday and install the next time it rains or gets too cool to ride. Today is lower 60's and I'm going to "escape" for a bit. Since TV Land quit the Hillbillies at 10 pm, I haven't been able to get "lost" in a while...


FWIW, the ATS converter/line valve have been working AWESOME so far...

[a64pilot]

King,
I don't think that the max is hotter than other chips out of the box either. Just wondering how hot this new perf. tune would be. Are you going to stay post turbo? Would be intersting to see real comparsions of pre and post turbo and you would be set up to do so if you install TST's pyro in the manifold. "nudge,nudge".
I know that NO2 is cold as He** as sprayed, but wouldnt it drive up EGT's as it caused any overfueling to be burned?
I have not had the lopey idle, also I don't run nearly as hard as you do. Do you think that it could be aggravating a slightly sticking rail pressure control valve? Reason I ask is I have a slightly lopey cold idle that is worse if I don't use a fuel additive. (Had it before the Max so it didn't cause it) I believe the extra lubrication of the additive helps keep the RPCV from sticking and oscillating fuel pressure that causes the cold Rump, Rump in the morning.

[GMCTRUCK]

Twice after hard level 9/9 blasts through the gears mine idle loped 3-4 times then went to a normal idle. Once was when I first got the TST and it did it a second time 2 days ago. Not sure why. I run at levels 9&9 just about all the time now with no problems and I've had it since late February.

[sdaver]

HEY JESS IM HANGING IN LIMBO TOO FOR A TRANNY SOLUTION......... :D DAVE

[a64pilot]

GMCTRUCK,
A. maybe they are turning up pressure at higher levels or
B. Maybe the pedal position is so sensitive at the high levels. There may even be C D and E for all I know. Does it only do it for a sec or two or does it do it until you press on the go pedal again?

[GMCTRUCK]

Like I said it has only done it twice and its 3-4 idle blips for a couple seconds then it goes back to normal idle.

[king D]

i was told loopey idle was map sensor sticking,is it dont know.i also had a pressure box plugged in but not turned on and tst sais they could have maybe caused a prob whaen i took off the max i took off the pressure box to.also as far as the nos i just cant explain it but for instance on my last truck a dodge cummins running the 1/4 mile i would get post turbo temps pushing over 1400 :eek: and slideing through the traps at 106 in about 12.95 to 13.15,however ad about 150 nos jet and egts would not raise over1300 post and times would drop into the 12.41 best to 12.7 range.ats told me they could have me the parts here to fix my tranny by weeks end but i want to wait for jk to gett the kit installed and see what happens,hopefully he has a big box to stick on to see what happens or i will over night him one to test.the thing i like about ats is the top speed eliminater,suncuast does not have this,also suncoast uses ceramic cluthes and are these clutches gonna break down a little and get in the fluid and cause a mother of all...i am not sure on the dmax tranny but for dodghe they offered a 2 yr 100000 warranty if they do that for the dmax as well i surethat willcalm my nerves.ats told me three years and 100000 miles.the big deal against ats is getting th kit installed at adealer that ats will back on warranty issues.