Attn: TLA...update please!

[DieselDavy]

TLA,
What's up with the engine repair/replacement? We're all waiting with great concern....
Keep up informed!
Thanks,
Dave

[DMAX Daddy]

From the Edge Boards:
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Quote (Bryce @ Mar. 07 2003,09:25)
With removal of the Juice and plugging the truck back up to stock the codes clear, and are not traceable.
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This is quite correct. I am a GM Service Manager, and this is driving the reps crazy!! They have absolutley NO WAY to trace it.

I know of two engines that "melted down" that did have the chips, both owners were pushing the envelope WAY beyond common sense and the engines went down... put everything back to stock and towed them in... warranty engine failure. The local rep was beside himself... but there was nothing he could do! ( I Love it !! )


http://www.xmission.com/~brimhall/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=3e828cba07c3ffff;act=ST;f=1;t=86


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EDIT same board
http://www.xmission.com/~brimhall/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=3e828cba07c3ffff;act=ST;f=1;t=89


Posted: Mar. 26 2003,21:56

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Quote (csgo @ Mar. 11 2003,07:11)
I have hesitated to take the truck to the dealer to scan for codes because of the rumors that GM can now tell if you've had a Juice box ever installed. Rumor is that they are voiding engine warranties. One guy claims to have seen a box (not a Tech II) that scans to see if you've ever been Juiced or not.
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There is no 'special box' that a GM service manager nor a GM rep has that can detect if a chip has ever been installed...


GM Service Manager for 25 years... and proud owner of 2003 Duramax.

[ 03-26-2003: Message edited by: DMAX Daddy ]</p>

[More Power]

I'd like to preface this post by saying that I do not know whether the ECM can store any data that might cause a dealer to suspect a performance product had been installed. The following is a quote from an article I wrote a while back, while researching information about Duramax 6600 fuel injection control.

"The ECM and EDU exchange information via the J1939 serial communications port. Aside from normal fuel injection data, the EDU is constantly monitoring the performance of the fuel injectors, and will report any related system fault to the vehicle ECM. The ECM interprets this data, and will take appropriate action based on the fault (setting codes, dash warning lights or put vehicle in limp-mode, etc.)."

Now, given that the ECM is continually analyzing EDU data, wouldn't it be "possible" (now or in the future) for the ECM to store fuel injection data that is outside the norm?

MP

[charliepeterson]

I've heard that OBD III is coming in 2005. I bet that this program might capture this info.

[mackin]

We all like to play I would imagine with our trucks performance but this so called Service Manager is not doing us justice if you ask me......

If they cannot detect today, with rubbing salt in their wounds, they will detect soon.....No one likes there nose rubbed in it....

As he said =&gt;"I know of two engines that "melted down" that did have the chips, both owners were pushing the envelope WAY beyond common sense and the engines went down ... put everything back to stock and towed them in ... warranty engine failure. The local rep was beside himself ... but there was nothing he could do! ( I Love it !! )"

Why should GM be responsible ??

That is ridiculous if one would believe they should be..... Very harmful to us all really ..... Attitude like that is the reason they question gauges,exhaust,and what ever the would like to point a finger at, to second guess the consumer....Point blame where perhaps it doesen't lie.....

MAC


Randy is the messenger not the original poster ,as I would believe the way I read it....

[DMAX Daddy]

Aye Im just the messenger. I have a few week "sandy vacation" coming up, and upon my return Ill be visiting my service manager to check on a few things.

[BROKERS]

DMAX DADDY.

You are so wrong.Your service manager just has not received or bought the new scanners.I have seen them first hand and they can tell. I will have mine shortly.

[mackin]

Dmax Daddy is getting a bum rap on this ..He is ONLY the messenger....We shall NOT shoot the messenger....

Is the poster=&gt;Saito

New Member

Group: Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Mar. 2003
Posted: Mar. 26 2003,21:56
Quote (csgo @ Mar. 11 2003,07:11)
I have hesitated to take the truck to the dealer to scan for codes because of the rumors that GM can now tell if you've had a Juice box ever installed. Rumor is that they are voiding engine warranties. One guy claims to have seen a box (not a Tech II) that scans to see if you've ever been Juiced or not.

There is no 'special box' that a GM service manager nor a GM rep has that can detect if a chip has ever been installed...


GM Service Manager for 25 years... and proud owner of 2003 Duramax.

--------------
2003 Duramax Crew Cab Long Bed
Frost White * Luvernve S/S Running Boards
Transfer Flow Stainless Wedge 74 gal Auxilliary Tank
Arctic Fox 29-5E Fifth Wheel Trailer

=&gt;http://www.xmission.com/~brimhall/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=3e828cba07c3ffff;act=ST;f=1;t=89

[ 03-27-2003: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[dmaxalliTech]

Broker, can your email me with any info you can get your hands on regarding the new scanner you have seen. I need to find out about this.

As far as a Tech-III goes, I have reports from GM saying it is within the works, but is still at least 18 months away. It is needed because the requirement of future systems will go beyond techII capability. Gm is moving to the CAN data stream because of its faster baud rates and faster communication speeds, its neccesary on the newer technology.

As far as the Service Manager quotes go... I think alot of it has to do with their interests. I am on the customer side of things because I own a d-max. Before purchasing my truck, I used to look for warrenty voiding things. Now I tend to overlook them more so. He mentioned he was a D-max owner. Maybe he feels the same as me. "Its hard to see it unless your in it" Meaning, you appreciate the fellow owners of your common hobby. Lets admit it, we all love to tinker and play with our trucks and see what we can do to them. The guy down the street with the supercharged Grand Prix might not see your interest in some big smoking truck that 'stinks' but he thinks he is on track with his supercharged 3.8 and he loves to increase its performance. I have said this numerous times in the past and I will say it again. Get involved with your dealer. I know most of the people that have purchased d-max's from our dealer on a first name basis. Salesman bring their customers to me when they purchase there rig. I try and sell performance items to the customer at that point. I am trying to get out parts manager to be a dealer for Juice. My customers call me or come to me regularly for advice on the rigs. I, in turn for thier loyalty, take care of them.

[DMAX Daddy]

Brokers, as Mac said I am merely the messenger.
Those posts came from the EDGE forum Id take with grain of salt anyway.

I honestly think they can find anything they put their minds too, and if they can save 10 or so full engine warranties then they probably have gotten back the money they invested to figure out how to do it.

[DieselDavy]

Boy did this thread go the wrong way!
1. All I wanted to know was how his repair was going to turn out. Here is a guy, who, when taken at face value, looks like he is going to get screwed. I feel for him. (This is all assuming he really hadn't used the juice for a long time)

2. For Sure: If you play, you should pay. If he was abusing it, he should step up to the plate and pay. If as he said, he used it for a while quite some time ago, it doesn't sound like he should pay. That just how I see it.

3. As for detecting performance mods: As an Electronics Engineer designing military hardware, I can tell you it's a big 'cat and mouse' game. As long as the performance box intercepts all lines of communications between the ECM and the engine, the programmer can modify signals returning to the ECM from the engine and "normalize" them before the ECM sees them. If he doesn't do this, he's busted! GM should be able to make it harder on the poor programmers by changing the wiring harness and hardware configuration. Routing signals to and from sensors (and the injection system) and the ECM through several connectors would be a good start. It starts to get cost prohibitive when the hardware gets more elaborate. That will detour some of the performance hounds from messing with the mods thus reducing warranty claims. Just my 2 cents worth.

Dave

[sdaver]

hmmmmmmmm........how bout owning two computers..........one to play with(the new one) and then the good ol factory original.....after the inital setup the swap takes about 8 minutes........with a connection they are cheaper than you think........ :D dave