Clouds of black smoke, knocking - Suggestions?

[SoCalDMAX]

I made a 1,000mi trip to ID to play in the sand and the mighty Dmax let me down when I got there. She started belching large clouds of black smoke and it sounded like one cylinder was knocking.

I took it in to a GMC dealership (they got approval to work on it due to being out of town and emergency) and they 1st diagnosed fuel pressure sender was bad. Replaced it and called it repaired. I picked it up and could tell immediately that it was only halfway between what it was and what it should be on power and smoke.

They looked at it again and said the EGR valve was stuck open, so they bypassed it and called it good enough to get back to CA. They wrote on the service order that they checked balancing rates and pulse width, all were within spec. My theory (supported by a Chevy dealer service mgr who was also on vacation) is that one or more injectors have gone bad and are dumping lotsa fuel.

I got 85mi down the road on the return trip and it smoked and knocked so bad I pulled over. Then the smoke turned from thick black to hazy blue and it sounded like it was running on only 4 cyl, shaking badly at idle. I called GM roadside assistance and they called a tow truck and extra truck to take my trailer to a guarded lot and my truck to a local Chevy dealer. I rented a car and continued home.

The dealer has been looking at it today but no word from them yet.

Any ideas, suggestions, clues? After bagging on the Ford PSD owners pretty hard on another website, I'm catching a little flak about it from them. Oh well, live by the sword... ;)

Regards, Steve

[Kennedy]

I think you are on the right track with the injector diagnosis...

[mackin]

The grand knocking thing seems to be the new thing ..... Except NO smoke in my case ?? Sounded like one cylinder only ......

My balance rate has been less then forth coming...... I've seen three cylinders out, 1,2,6,bad -3 and -4+..... I've seen two cylinders out 2,6 and one out 6 but just barely ..... All different days times all negative which is less fuel, anyway .....

Today tech said all OK today no codes ......So they wont be tearing it apart ,good in a way .....

So good luck on diagnosing ..... Unless one, two stay out and throw a code .....

But sounds like you are right on target with problem ....

Hey it's documented in my case any hoo .....

Mac :rolleyes:

[sdaver]

tried you a few times this afternoon hoped you had some good news........remember the squeaking wheel gets the grease.........wish I was in rescue range for the toy hauler........on another note I noticed a norhtstar powered buggy and toy box hauler with a quad runner on ebay. One of the rear trailor tires was shredded and there was black smoke stains down the right side.........Im currently the high bidder.

good luck with it all and remeber the rednecks personal way of getting what he wants :D :D dave

[ 07-07-2003, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: sdaver ]

[SoCalDMAX]

Latest update:

Although the 1st dealer said that balance rates and pulse widths were all within spec, the 2nd dealer has discovered that 7 of the 8 injectors are bad. They are replacing all 8, figuring that the 8th one is probably on the verge. Truck was built in Oct 2001 and has 26,500mi on it.

When this first occurred, my heart sank. This was my first long distance tow, and having 2 misdiagnoses without the problem being repaired wasn't bolstering my confidence. Now that this dealership is going to the extra effort (common sense really) to replace the 8th injector, I feel a lot better.

We'll see if that's all of it, I'm curious to find out what caused the injector failures. I'm hoping they were from a bad batch rather than normal life expectancy. I don't think 26,000mi is a very good lifetime. :(

Regards, Steve

[mackin]

Seven at once take a siesta ??? Odd .....


Mac http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif

[sdaver]

LEAST NOW WE KNOW SOMETHING

[Gbenzx01]

Well Steve,
I sorry abt your problem like that especially away from home but may be working in your favor.
Decided not to ask the dumbbb ques I was going to ask w/o thimking! Alternate fuel filtration was ques but at that mileage = No Sense...
Some things however get our attn & mine was blt abt 11/01 with abt same mileage as yours. Wonder if you could see those injectors you could tell if they were beatup or heat, maybe you could pass on what may have occured in such low mileage span.
If bad batch is the problem then the Generous Gen is in for quite a scalding wouldn't ya say?
Well is it Bosch that it backs up to? Or is it just the pump itself they stand good for?
Just read you post of 1/26/03 & we've had surprises too but not with GM. I was searching for the thread abt the new injectors which are made of a better metal & when was it they started installing those? No find as usual@#$%! Who knows?
Gatta know Steve, Gotta know, maybe?

I don't like this,
But Thanx, Gben

[ 07-08-2003, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: Gbenzx01 ]

[sdaver]

BRING US UP TO SPEED STEVE

[SoCalDMAX]

Latest update:

As of Fri, the 11th, the tech had replaced 8 injectors and that didn't fix it.

On Mon the 14th, he had stopped to regroup and called TAC in the evening. Apparently he had 6 other trucks to work on last week, but now there's only mine and another, so he's concentrating on it a little harder.

TAC told him to perform 6 or 7 mechanical and electrical tests and he'll be doing those today and tomorrow. I told them to tell the Tech that I appreciated all of his efforts, I honestly do. Although I'm being inconvenienced, I'm trying to put myself in his shoes and remember that it's not easy to diagnose and having a whining customer from "the Land of Fruits and Nuts" (as Sdaver so aptly puts it ;) ) isn't gonna help one bit.

I'm calling every day for updates, but trying to keep it upbeat and cordial even though I'm a raving lunatic without my truck and toys. If only these people on the fwy knew what I'm really feeling and this is just a RENTAL CAR!!!

Is there a category for rental cars in those Sled Pulls you guys go to??

Regards, Steve

[sdaver]

Its amazing the the level of comfort these trucks provide and how much you miss it when they are absent......... :D dave......aka the land of granola(what aint fruits and nuts are flakes) :D

[mdrag]

SoCalDmax,

Have they changed the fuel filter yet?

Good luck in getting back on the road.

[SoCalDMAX]

Hi Mittie,
I did mention to the tech that I wanted the fuel filter changed, since at the time it appeared that all injectors had been damaged at the same time the most likely culprit was dirt.

I never got confirmation back that the fi;lter had indeed been changed.

Another side note in this saga: GM roadside assistance does NOT care how long it takes to repair the vehicle or how much a rental car costs. They are offering $30/day for up to 5 days max. reimbursement regardless of circumstances.

GM customer assistance is telling me they contacted the dealer and "they would work something out." As a matter of principle, I will not eat any of the rental expense. It's costing over $250/week for the rental car (which they arranged) and they will pay for every day of it.

Regards, Steve

[David Proske]

I know how you feel with the rental car. The other guys insurance company put me in a 03 Malibu while the dealer is fixing the fender on my truck. I feel plum silly driving this little thing around.

[mackin]

Just Wondering ..... :rolleyes:

You guys know how to do brake stand hole-shots,and donuts in a front wheel drive car don't ya ???

Helps pass the time ...... :eek:

Let me know .....

I thought while under warranty,GM provided a vehicle while truck was in service "over night" and beyond ?? My dealer wont give me one unless it's "not" repaired the same day ....

Mac http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif

[mackin]

So ....... http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif

Any update ??

You knew I would drag it up since I seen ya on the other thread .....

Mac

[SoCalDMAX]

Welll....

As of Fri the 18th, they told me that #2 cylinder had no compression so they removed the head. #2 injector was stuck wide open and all those huge clouds of smoke was from that one injector. :eek:
The cylinder washdown, or heat, or both scored the cylinder very badly as well as burned a hole thru the top of the piston.

DQA(??) or some inspector came out to look and pointed to my 33" tires and said, "There's the problem, he was towing with too large of tires." The service mgr told me that he explained to him that these things were designed to tow 15,700lbs, and a slight change in gearing would affect the Allison shift performance, not make an injector stick. :rolleyes:

He showed him the other 3 perfect cylinders and said something to the effect that all cylinders would have been equally affected had it been something other than a defective injector. They've ordered a brand new motor and it should be in this week, installed next week and ready for pickup by next weekend. I asked for an '04 motor, and he chuckled and said, "Nice try, but at least it's a brand new motor." I was hoping the new motor would get a full 100K mi warranty, but he told me the mileage just continues from here.

This is all repaired under warranty. GM roadside asistance has said they will pay the first $150 of the rental car bill. The dealership has said they will submit the balance to GM directly with the warranty claim. The Service Mgr also said to verify that I'm not being charged for the trailer storage. If so, he'll get that back as well. If GM jerks me around, I'll get AAA involved, I pay enough to those people, no reason they get to skate out.

So other than the inconvenience of having to ride in Fords and Dodges for 4 weeks (talk about mental anguish and cruel and unusual punishment!!) and making another trip to get my stuff, this has been as painless as possible.

This dealership has handled everything quite well and I was just lucky I stumbled upon them.

For anyone interested, this truck was built in Oct. 2001, delivered in Nov. 2001.

Regards, Steve

[HD-Nate]

DQA(??) or some inspector came out to look and pointed to my 33" tires and said, "There's the problem, he was towing with too large of tires." :rolleyes: Geez.....what a tool, and this DQA guy is suppose to be some sort of expert :(

Hey, things happen to the best. Glad you have a stand up dealer backing you up. They are so rare these days.

Back in the early GM Diesel days, if they replaced the engine your 100K mile warranty didn

[mackin]

Thanks for the update ...... Fresh motor HUH ?? Break it in right ..... ;)

Need any info got a great site for ya => www.thedieselpage.com (http://www.thedieselpage.com) .....

:D :D :D

So only "one" injector went bad ,miss diagnosed and it cost GM a motor ...... HMMM mmmm makes ya wonder .....

Mac :confused:

[sdaver]

Totally a new motor turbo etc.......or new long block.......shurly its totally new and yes I know your names not shirley.........great news steve :D dave

ps the buggy raffle link did not work

[hoot]

I'm sure it's only a long block.

Does that mean they'll put the old injection system in? :eek:

[SoCalDMAX]

Yup, old valve covers, oil pan, injectors, etc. That's why it's taking so long, they gotta scrounge up a full set of bad injectors. ;)

I'm hoping there's no rust in the injector lines, but if so, then I gotta have faith that the tech is paying attention and will replace them as well. When he first diagnosed 7 out of 8 bad injectors, he didn't think to change out the fuel filter. Guess it looked like a "coincidence" that they all went bad at the same time. Or maybe he really didn't think they were all bad.

Either way, time is up. I have a business trip on Sun., so I'm driving up Thursday afternoon and picking it up on Friday to get home by Saturday nite. I absolutely hate getting pushed to the wall on schedules, but what can you do when you have to rely on others.

Regards, Steve

[hoot]

Steve,

I don't remember if you have an additional fuel filter. If not and you are keeping it it's a wise investment, whatever one you decide on.

[Applecore]

White smoke, familiar sight. On our way to Washington State from Minnesota on I-90 we pulled into Livingston Mt. for 'pit stop'. At the bottom of the exit we had lots of white smoke. Same as you, we called roadside assistance. We were within 1/2 mile of a GMC dealer so we pulled in. It was an injector that kept dripping, the white smoke was unburnt fuel. We were suprised that they didn't have an injector in stock. They said they just haven't had a problem with them and that GM doesn't suggest that they keep the part as an inventory item. Closest place for the part was Billings, 100 miles away. Of course this happened on Friday so we didn't get going again until Monday afternoon. GM took care of the entire bill including a rental car for the week-end. We had our 5th wheel parked in the GMC dealer parking lot with electric power. I am getting a little tired of having to be inconvienced by the 'layup' time. We lost our injector pump last winter in Arkansas. Lost 3 days on that trip. We are so satisfied with the way the truck handles, pulls great etc. that I hate to bad mouth it. BUT!!!