Diesel Fuel Quality

[george morrison]

During the summer I was buying what I thought was "premium" diesel fuel (cetane index of 50) only to find that it was barely #2 spec of 40! Here I am a lube engineer, living with oil analysis results each day and I never once tested my diesel fuel quality! My number one vehicle cost and I just accepted it as being high quality.. Not only was it low cetane, the amounts of contaminats in the fuel both dirt and water, relative to ISO cleanliness levels would not qualify the fuel for use as a hydraulic fluid in a 1000 psi garbage truck system much less our 20,000+ PSI fuel system..
George

[TLA]

In the 70's, I attended a Bosch fuel injection school in Denver. The instructors were also driving around, buying fuel and testing it. They said the results were amazing, with high contamination, and a lot of water. We thought it mostly a result of th fuel crisis. Sorry to hear it is still a problem. Probably we all should condider additional filtering/water separation.

[mackin]

I felt the proof is all ready out there with the problems reported here due to early fuel filter contamination,lose of power etc.....George is just confirming it with a hands on test....Best to keep up a rigorous fuel filter changes....At $18 bucks a pop cheap insurance.....I'll keep DIS'S number handy.....Wonder why there seems to be a issue with cruddy dirty injectors?????Could it be a result of sub standard lousy fuel???? ;)


MAC

[opiekelly]

What is the smallest micron filter out there? I sure don't want to go through this injector problem again. 4 injectors replaced and another 4 on the way. Also has anyone seen a recent consumer report on fuel quality?

[opiekelly]

Looking through the owners manaul it states that for better performance and durability we should be using fuel that meets the EMA FQP-1A standard. I found this on the EMA site. http://www.engine-manufacturers.org/admin/library/upload/59.pdf

Sounds like GM should not even list the standard ASTM D975-98a.

Next step is to find service stations that meet this standard.

[Paintdude]

I would guess Fuel addatives are a must..What is your take on them?

[hdmax(mike)]

What would be the chance of a dual by pass filter system being availible? Something like the Amsoil dual by pass! if they could/would manufacture a filter plate adapter. It seems to me that would be the answer to this problem. As long as it is dirty diesel causing the injector problems.

[opiekelly]

I don't think filters will completely help in terms of poor fuel. If the fuel does not have detergents, fuel injector clogging will occur. The fuel could also have lack of lubricants. I am going to run Stanadyne to help were a filter can't. If I have time this week I will try to find out what companies really provide premium fuel. Check out www.premiumdiesel.com. I live in Colorado so I am out of luck.

[More Power]

There is a new addition to the "New Products" page that discusses the topic George introduced.

http://www.thedieselpage.com/newprod.htm

MP

[george morrison]

The published EMA FQP-1A fuel standards are unacceptably low with respect to allowable water and contaminants in diesel fuel. There is no minimum ISO cleanliness level stated (the area most affecting our pump and injector wear). A maximum of 200 ppm of water is *very* high.. A 200 ppm water level would cause a very rapid rate of injector and pump erosion..
This level of allowable dirt/water would cause greatly accelerated pump and actualtor wear in a 1,000 psi system; in a 20,000 psi system, well, get your check book/platinum card out...
George

[3176CATPOWER]

Checked out www.premiumdiesel.com and found out the place where I buy my premium fuel which is supposed to be supplied by Koch industries is not listed as so.Also found out the Kwik Trip stations through out WI. handle the real thing.

[opiekelly]

Does the stock water seperator and fuel filter address the issues with EMA FPQ-1a fuels? If not you are painting a picture of doom for all of the high pressure Bosch common rail vehicles.

[hoot]

I guess I've been fortunate so far. I just changed my fuel filter yesterday for the second time at 35,200 miles. The lower portion where the water seperater is, was exceptionally clean and there was no trace of water.

The water seperator is basically the lower portion of the filter. I guess they rely on the water laying on the bottom. There is a little float that looks to be a circular magnet that "signals" the transducer inside the rod it floats on. Hall effect?

I use a station that pumps lots of fuel on a regular basis.

Prices are rising. Up to 1.31 gal. in low taxed NJ.

[ 09-10-2002: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>

[Paintdude]

My fuel addative guy says that a addative is needed to lube the fuel system..sounds like he is correct from the replies here..

fuel prices on the rise.. :(

[george morrison]

The next step will be to do a "before & after" fuel analysis. Someone who has been fueling from the same source for a while capture a sample at the nozzle and then capture a sample post the Duramax fuel filter. Then we will know exactly what is going on in our fuel filtration system. We ran the same before and after on a VW TDI diesel which "supposedly" has a 2 micron absolute fuel filter. The results of the fuel analysis after filter resulted in a 50% particle removal rate, still allowing over 5,000,000 particles larger than 2 microns through the injector pump and injectors! Yes, that is millions of particles AFTER the fuel filter..
The actual ISO cleanliness was an 18/16/13. It should be in the 14/12/10 or better area for maximum pump and injector life and performance.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

[Allison Jettester]

I have found that almost all the gas stations-Shell, Mobil, Sunoco and Texaco in my area are owned by heating oil companies and they use their own modified heating oil rather than premium diesel in their tanks. I have seen them fill the diesel tanks with their heating oil trucks. At least the Shell pump states that "This is not a Shell product". The others don't warn you. Only diesel I use around here is Exxon-their pump states it is Esso Premium Diesel.

Beware!
Joe

[Kennedy]

This whole dirt thing could prove quite interesting!

[Jelisfc]

Allison Jettester The fuel companies in your area are probably using their trucks to haul diesel #2 like the pump says. When I hauled we put all grades of gasoline #1, #2, kerosene, jet fuel, heating fuel, you name it in our trailers. The only time we had to be careful is with jet fuel. I believe we had to fill with diesel and not gasoline because of static electricity even with a grounded system. They are just saving paying someone else the freight.

Before low sulpher we ran straight #2 heating oil in our trucks with no problems. Of course the high sulpher content helped.

[hapaschold]

i have, in the last 20k, bought diesel from the local heating oil dealer, and changed the fuel filter yesterday.

1 st filter, had water & water/oil mixture along with small amount of rust chunks

2nd filter, had no traces of water at all, but a considerable amount of rust chunks. fuel was purchased from same place since 1 st filter change.

i m going to change the filter on my tractor, and see whats in that filter. fuel also bought from local oil dealer.

the dealers pump has a large filter before the delivery hose. will get make and model and check micron capacity.

really puzzled where the rust is coming from.

where could i sent a sample of diesel to get tested for quality? sounds worth while

hapaschold :confused:

[RRHOGGER]

I you have to choose your diesel like a fine wine then you better start looking at a ford or a dodge. GM is going to have a hard time selling the duramax if owners have to hunt around for the right flavor. GM needs to improve their filter system. As for lubrication - don't let anyone BS you about adding lubricants to diesel - it is the lubricant.

[Flyboy]

Hoot:

The "water in fuel switch" is not a hall effect switch. It has only two wires, hall needs a power source. If you listen very closely, you can hear the magnetic reed switch operate. I was curious also.

[SoCalDieselNewbie]

I make the run from Los Angeles to Phoenix about 2-3 times a month in my 2002 Chevy 3500.

I have noticed a couple a stations that, I suspect, provide sub-par fuel recently.

Normally, I run at 80 miles per hour unloaded... 16.1 miles per gallon.

Usually, I fuel up at a local Chevron, that I know does a ton of volume in diesel, and a local diesel mechanic has had their fuel tested.

On my trips to phoenix... I started fueling up at a Flying J, non-commercial pumps, because it had the cheapest #2 diesel on the entire run.

Again, running 80 miles per hour unloaded... 14.3 miles per gallon.

[george morrison]

Regarding fuel test kits: http://www.avlube.com/ has them for $52.50 + UPS. Fuel testing is normally quite expensive ($200 or so)for standard #2 tests. I have condensed it into just the important components for us, namely Cetane index, water content (measured in PPM, Karl Fischer) and most importantly, particle count. Particle Count is an actual counting of the various size spectrums that cause the most wear in our fuel systems. This wear spectrum has been determined by Southwest Reserach to be in the 5 to 10 micron range, which is exactly the size which fits in the small space betwen the high pressure fuel piston walls, and is like a sand blaster to injection nozzles.
I am planning to run a "before and after" fuel analysis on a Duramax to find out exactly what our effective filter rate is for our trucks.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

[ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: george morrison ]</p>

[letsgo]

George Morrison
I find this posting very interesting more info would be great.

[Dawg]

Here are the most common stations in my area. Anyone have any info on which is best or are they pretty much the same?
-Union 76
-Texaco
-Exxon
-Arco
-Conoco
-Chevron (Seems most do not offer diesel)

Any info would be appreciated.

[mackin]

WE "SHELL"NOT "EXXON"ERATE SADDAM HUSSEIN FOR HIS ACTIONS........

WE WILL"MOBIL"IZE TO MEET HIS THREAT TO VITAL INTEREST IN THE PERSION "GULF" UNTILL AN
"AMOCO"BLE SOLUTION IS REACHED ........
OUR BEST STRATEGY IS TO "BP"REPARED.......

FAILING THAT,WE"ARCO"MING TO KICK YOUR ASS........


Any one see this??????? It's better with the actual refinery signs......


MAC :D :D

Courtesy Dennis H. via e-mail.....

[ 09-23-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[TDIwyse]

george morrison

what were the results of the fuel filter test? I've been following the filter test being done on the VW TDIclub forum with much anxiety, and am curious to see how their adaptation of the CAT 2 micron absolute filter will work. They're also testing a Racor 2 micron filter and another brand.

Does anyone know if Racor has a 2um filter for the Duramax? Any part numbers?

[george morrison]

Yes, Greg of both this and the TDI site will be sending in 'before and after' racor fuel so we will see what this setup does in terms of filtration. This will be for his 6.5TD. I am sure he will be sharing his results with both sites.
We have not yet done the OEM filter before and after as the Duramax is not so easy to capture a sample.
The TDI test results for the CAT should be posted either Friday 10/4/02 or Monday.. The Baldwin fuel filter results for the TDI before and after filter will be posted later next week..
Moreover, as soon as anything is available, it will be posted both here and at the TDI site..
You will be the first to know!
George Morrison, STLE CLS

[Black Dog]

Bottom line is that this engine, which is sold in North America, has to be able to run on the fuel that is available in North America. The filtration system that comes with the truck needs to be able to provide clean fuel to the pump. I can't remember seeing one instance of a Dmax fuel pump failing in a manner that would point to fuel contamination. This type of wear would lead to a degradation of flow output from the pump, which would eventually lead to an inability to maintain the normal operating pressure of the fuel injection system. All of the pumps that I have heard of being replaced were due to some kind of problem with the pressure regulation set-up. I buy my fuel at different stations all over west Michigan, and my fuel filters have had just a trace amount of water (to be expected, they can't keep those tanks 100% water free), and no other real contaminants. I have too much other stuff to worry about in my life than to obsess over stuff like this, and the truck runs just fine.

[TDIwyse]

Left a message with the Racor tech support about the duramax fuel filter and if it was at 2 micron absolute filtration. The voice message this morning said that it was a 2 micron filter, but he didn't say if this was absolute, nominal, or how it was specified.