High altitude engines??

[Goosen'DMAX]

I just have a quick question. Does it make a difference where you buy your truck at? I.E. A low altitude area like Southern California, or high altitude like Colorado? The reason for the question, is that I'm from Colorado, but work in California, (I'm in the Marine Corps) and when I go home to Colorado I want it to perform like it should and not choke due to the lack of oxygen. So, if I was to buy a Duramax out here in California would it perform any different than a one from Colorado at high altitudes? Anyone that knows your information would be greatly appreciated.

[odoh]

To purchase in CA your truck must have CA Emission equipt (cat converter, EGR). However, you could purchase in CO and being in the military, get an exemption. Couldn't you purchase and register it in the state of your home of records for at least a year? As to the difference in performance between the two? I really donno but I really think not.

The issue w/CA residents purchasing a vehicle from out of state is the CA Emission declaration. It must be in the eng compartment or on the emission component. I just registered mine last week. The gal was too short to find it ~ its really a bear. They reluctantly accepted the Window Sticker and the MSO (certif of origin/birth certif that comes w/new vehicles) in lieu of actually seeing the declaration in the eng compartment.

Again, research it out, if you are in the military, there should be a way around this requirement. If not, I don't feel that I'm giving up anything performance wise (I could be wrong) w/an CA emission diesel truck. ~ odoh

[ 06-04-2002: Message edited by: odoh ]</p>

[DMAX Daddy]

Im also military in CA, and Im kinda stuck with CA emissions cause I bought the truck here.

If I add an aftermarket exhaust is it illegal? Anymore illegal than the 1960-something mosquito killer I rode behind coming to work this AM? I want to get a 4" exhaust, but will it help if its only a Cat-back system? Is the moon made of cheesie poofs? ;)

[SoCalDieselNewbie]

Goosen & Daddy,

No more whining and I mean it... :D

Take your lumps with the Ca emissions, I couldn't think of many other places that I'd wanted to be right now over Oceanside or Oxnard.

Now if Goosen is stuck in 29 Palms or some pit like that... Well son, I'm sorry but atleast you have a front row seat for 'the hell on earth' tour.

Anyway, my dealer even told me on the sly... that most of his customers, that bought the 02 Duramax, are removing the Cat and the service guys don't give a darn.

In fact, he wasn't sure what a Cat would effectively do on a diesel.

[Goosen'DMAX]

I don't know why they even bother to put CATS on diesels anyway, alot of good they are going to do! Thanks for your input so far. The reason for my original question is that I was going to wait for the 03's before buying my new DMAX, then I seen the pics, and about had to go ****. So now I'm left with having to try and find one that I like and buy an 02' I'm sure my dealer in CO can find one for me, but then comes the issue of taking leave to go and get it, and I'm in a small shop that needs pretty much one to two months notice (those of you in the MC know what I'm talking about)But, if I can get one out here in CA, and I would not be sacrificing any performance when I move back to CO, then I would just do that. If that was the case, the CAT would be the first to go. Someone once mentioned to me that the engines themselves are set up differently depending on where they are bought in their relationship to their location in altitude. The truck that I have now, (98' 2500 6.5 Diesel) seems to perform the same wether I'm in CO or CA. I bought it in CO, and the only difference between here and there is it seems to be a little bit more louder in CO, but as far as performance it's the same. Any more info you guys can give me would be great.

[DMAX Daddy]

Goose,
go to MWR Ticket Office and see if they have the Redbook (fleet prices) handy. They have fleet sales managers names in there for all over SoCal and being military they will hook you up with a truck at a little over invoice. 2002 2500HD's were $500 over invoice ordered or $4000 off sticker from the lot, at least with the folks I'm dealing with in Northridge.

Its quick and simple with no haggling and you dont have to spend hours at a dealer playing mind games with a salesman who is trying to finance his next trip to Hawaii off one sale.

[Ironhead]

GoosenD'max, About your altitude question: I believe the trucks are adjusted to run for where they are sold. I drove out to Colorado last July with a PSD. I had trouble getting it started every morning. It was was way too rich and smoked a lot. Once I got her going it would start up ok the rest of the day but once it sat over night it was a battle in the morning. When I got home to Ca it went back to normal.

[mdrag]

When I first hooked up AutoTap and looked at the turbo boost readings, they were reading way high and I couldn't figure it out. Kennedy pointed out that the Tech2 does the same thing - the Dmax's pressure sensor is reading the prevailing atmospheric pressure PLUS turbo boost pressure. I checked the local wheather channel and added atmospheric pressure to the boost pressure shown on my SPA gauge - and it was within 0.5 psi of what AutoTap was reading. Just as Kennedy exlained.

IIRC, the ECM takes this into consideration and makes the needed adjustments, so a truck from CA should run normally in Colorado and vice versa.

[mdrag]

I should have added that internal combustion engines will have their performance degraded at higher altitudes relative to low altitude operation. The performance loss should be more noticable in a non-turbo vs. a turbo though.

[dmaxstu]

odoh
I also bought my CA emission compliant truck out of state and DMV put me through the same crap. The fact of the matter was that CA diesel trucks sold in CA don't have stickers in the engine compartment. There are no such stickers available only the gassers have them. I just picked up my papers and went to another branch of the DMV were they were more enlightened.I had followed their brochure to the letter so far as importing a vehicle from another state ordering it with the CA emissions package etc.The CA. DMV sure could use some competent help. Stu

[Jomar]

I live near San Antonio, but bought my truck in Gunnison Co. I can`t tell any difference between here and there except a little, not a lot, power loss in Co. Gunnison is about 7800 ft., but I hunted last year at 10,500 ft. No Problem !


John G.

[DmaxMaverick]

Goosen'

You should be looking at more than just the cat and performance when it comes to getting a new truck. The performance issue is a moot point.

The new CA models ('02 and up) will have a cat AND EGR. Unlike the cat, the EGR can't simply be removed. Though they don't cause any issues when new, they will, as history dictates, cause problems as the years and miles add up.

What is the current going rate for registering commercial vehicles in CO? CA is sky high, and will likely stay that way. The renewal on my '01 was over a grand (before the rebate, but that's temporary). If the CO DMV fees are considerably lower, it could make all the difference on the dollars.

Another solution would be to locate a local dealer that will handle the paperwork for you and have the deal done on a CO truck, to be delivered to you. It costs a little more, but not as much as a plane ticket and traveling expenses.

[odoh]

dmaxstu ~ I have it from a reliable source (DMV & DSM) that the tag is on the 'pump'. Check the serpentine belt decal on the fan shroud. There is a vacumn pump shown in dotted lines ~ I see it as emission (EGR) related (I could be wrong). Its tuff to see the declaration ~ my agent had been thru it before and really didn't want to do it again and I still haven't. After its initial registration, however, its no longer an issue.

The DMV directives says it must be in the engine compartment or on the emission component. GM complied w/that and didn't make it easy for our DMV. However, I confess I was nervous about it. I'm glad its over. You are right ~ it depends on which office one goes to. As a matter of interest, when I declared the taxable price, I declared the value minus the Rebate. In my mind, I shouldn't be taxed on money I didn't spend. Another person told me he paid tax on the full costs (before the rebate was subtracted out). So, now I'm sweating a ltr from the board of equalization demanding more sales tax. Oh well. ~ odoh

[ 06-05-2002: Message edited by: odoh ]</p>

[Goosen'DMAX]

I want to thank everyone for all of the replys to my question. I did a little research on it myself and have come to the conclusion that getting an DMAX in CA would be a bad choice. Just because of the EGR. I spent alot of time traking down the info and the guys at work hated me for taking up the computer all day, but that EGR is just too much junk for me to deal with. The CAT would be no problem being that I would register it in CO and they don't require a CAT or emmissions where I live, so the CAT would go, but like DmaxMaverick said, the EGR can't be removed. So, I'm working with my dealer back in CO to see what he can do about finding an 02' DMAX there. I'll keep you posted!!

DmaxMaverick, about your registration question, it is cheaper to register in CO, my dad has an 02' DMAX and if I remember right he only paid about $850 to register. I'll find out the exact #'s and get back to you on it.

Thanks again everyone,
Goosen'

[odoh]

FWIW ~ As I registered mine here last week for $469 not incl the use tax (state sales tax of 7.25%). But as has been noted, the state is in a fiscal crises and the high fees could return. ~ odoh

[stillracing]

Is it that the EGR can't be removed or is it just very hard to remove? I would like to get rid of mine thinking it wil lower my egt's

[DmaxMaverick]

stillracing

According to the technical description of the EGR on the Duramax, it is built into and is ported through the head. It is also controlled and monitored by the ECM, which means messing with it will cause DTC's.

Previous GM diesels had them, but it was a part of the intake plenum and easily defeated or removed all together.

[Goosen'DMAX]

UPDATE!! Well, my dealer is the best. He was able to find a truck for me in CO. I will be going to pick it up in July. Thanks again to everyone who gave me the info.